Home Made HD Cinema Cameras - Technical Discussion

[Wayne Morellini]

Ooh, the youth and the enthusiasm, there is an new DIY cinema camera project thread. Lots of new interesting hardware links fro different components to make up an recording system:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=96349

If I have missed any other threads please feel free to post them here.

[Wayne Morellini]

An comparison of next generation display ports:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33161/135/
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33161/135/1/1/

I didn't know that Display Port was based on HDMI, I thought it used an competing technology, it also uses an data packeting format that appears to allow any sort of data to be sent with Audiovisual. Not quiet USB3.0, but theoretically you could have an monitor with up to 20 or so full speed USB2 ports going though display port.

[Wayne Morellini]

As many people may know, I am retired from project life, answering the odd question, posting the odd update here, and there. So I still welcome your emails, though some take several hours of re-research to answer. If I am of significant help, remember to keep me informed and feel free to send me an free sample of your commercial product ;).

You may notice that Sony has just announced an cheap shoulder mount pro camera, and that I have previously posted, somewhere, about an similar planned shoulder mounted Pana pro-line camera. The competition to DIY/alternative is finally heating up, and I wonder what price the XDCAM HD EX will come in at.

Silicon and Red still struggle to achieve market penetration, finally on the production road, not to mention the other alternatives. People have not yet realised the market that HV20, Sony and Pana cheap shoulder mounts are aiming at, the under $5k market that we could have been in. It is all about customers and what they might decide to buy instead of us, even if they have to lug an big uncompressed recording computer around with them, or if more upmarket, buy the expensive name brand quality camera, instead.

However, the day of the cheap cigarette packet sized cinema camera is definitely an possibility now days.

Speaking separately from the cigarette packet thing, for our amusement:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=732904

[Wayne Morellini]

Does anybody know of these things?

I saw an release of an 3 chip web cam sometime in the last year. I have been spending many hours trying to find it by google, but can't. I forget the resolution, but it could be 1280*960 Sony CCD sensors, it could be VGA. Any three chip web cams for comparison would do.

I first dismissed this, but now think I might be able to get some constructive use from it.

If anybody knows of any good web cam sites, forums, and stores, web cam quality recording software, that might be able to help, please let me know.

[Wayne Morellini]

http://www.tilera.com/products/processors.php

As you might know I am fond of these low power high performance processing array solutions, this one programmable in C. Ambarella also has an camera/sensor control chips using this sort of solution, but as yet, they never have confirmed where ever it can be re-programmed (to say Bayer compression) with me. So, keep an eye out for solutions like these.

Then again, I might have posted an link to information about an company making development software, that can take C and adjust it for parallel processors systems, or FPGA.

[Solomon Chase]

I've never heard of a 3-chip webcam! I have seen a couple of HD webcams though, and apple's latest iSight is HD.

I'm getting some datasheets and devkit info from foveon in about 10 mins. They gave some very reasonable prices over the phone. (I'll update my sensor chart once I get it).

[Chris Hurd]

I can't see the need for a three-chip web cam. Better to stick with single-chip using an RGB filter. It's the same color accuracy, plus a larger sensor for better low-light performance (one large sensor being less expensive than three small ones).

[Wayne Morellini]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I can't see the need for a three-chip web cam. Better to stick with single-chip using an RGB filter. It's the same color accuracy, plus a larger sensor for better low-light performance (one large sensor being less expensive than three small ones).

Chris, as you know, it is extremely difficult to get an complete answer around here, unless you ask enough people. So I posted my question in the general discussion board, as well as here, hoping somebody might have heard of it too, as there are many more different people there. But somebody removed it. Is it possible to get it back, I have spent several hours looking already and (read more than seven)?

I am interested in this device, as it would be an cheap way to do my pixel shifted uncompressed HD solution, like Andromeda, until the single chip three color solution I have been waiting for arrives. I am interested in what Solomon has quoted, but they are very reluctant to deal with small outfits, let alone charge an price less than thousands, let alone less than the hundreds.

Thanks.

[Chris Hurd]

After all this time Wayne you should know that we don't allow cross-posting to more than one forum. Thus the removal. Where do you want this, and I'll move it.

[Wayne Morellini]

Originally Posted by Solomon Chase

I've never heard of a 3-chip webcam! I have seen a couple of HD webcams though, and apple's latest iSight is HD.

I'm getting some datasheets and devkit info from foveon in about 10 mins. They gave some very reasonable prices over the phone. (I'll update my sensor chart once I get it).

It does/did exist, and as you can see from my last post, I have an devious little DIY experimental use for it. Always interested in the cheaper solutions, it would be good for at least prototyping an pixel-shifted recording solution, which has some of it's own advantages over single chip. But tell me, roughly what prices were Foveon quoting, for what type of equipment. Unless the chips can be had for hundreds or less, or cameras for less than an thousand, it might be too expensive for my use.

[Solomon Chase]

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

It does/did exist, and as you can see from my last post, I have an devious little DIY experimental use for it. Always interested in the cheaper solutions, it would be good for at least prototyping an pixel-shifted recording solution, which has some of it's own advantages over single chip. But tell me, roughly what prices were Foveon quoting, for what type of equipment. Unless the chips can be had for hundreds or less, or cameras for less than an thousand, it might be too expensive for my use.

Still expensive, but of course foveon is up there with altasens in terms of quality. Low hundreds for large quanties, around $850 for 5 sensors, $1000 for single. I just updated my chart.

[Wayne Morellini]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

After all this time Wayne you should know that we don't allow cross-posting to more than one forum. Thus the removal. Where do you want this, and I'll move it.

But it wasn't the same post, I changed it :) . Is it possible to reinstall it there and I put an link to it here with the same title?

Any chance it might be possible to have an remote linking scheme, like the moved post scheme, for awkward question posts that suit more than one sub-forum?

[Chris Hurd]

If we move a post, we usually leave behind a three-day re-directing link.

With cross-posts, we just remove all but the earliest version.

If the topic is of interest, people *will* find it. Hope this helps,

[Serge Victorovich]

Wayne, good cmos image sensor is better than 3ccd or 3cmos.
http://www.cineform.com/technology/C...ensor_600H.gif

Read tests by Wolfgang Winne, check samples from 3CCD camcorders and one-sensor HV20
http://fxsupport.de/25.html

[Wayne Morellini]

Serge, don't worry about it. This is an lead up to something much better for the price. The three chipper is just an easy entry test case for now.

Thanks Chris. I'm sure there is probably 70% less chance of the right person coming along here, then in general, and 50% overall (maybe more likely such an person would respond here though).