Home Made HD Cinema Cameras - Technical Discussion

Dennis Hingsberg · January 29th, 2007, 12:06 PM

What we need is a 1" sensor so we can get close to 24x18mm and no need for an imaging screen!

Wayne Morellini · February 3rd, 2007, 08:34 AM

http://www.ue.dk/nyhedsarkiv/10182.aspx
http://www.physorg.com/news89398752.html

I have posted these, because they appear significant, for what can be done in the future.

I am curious what price this camera will be, and compression/data rate, as it talks of network.

The lens is very thin, it works by bouncing light around inside the lens, off of reflective surfaces, until it finds it's way to the sensor chip.

Igor Babic · February 3rd, 2007, 08:52 AM

here is direct link
http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/fhg/iis...bs/microHD.jsp
I have send them email to give us some more info about senzor they using, and about the price.
I think that lan is only for configuration, and preview, HDSDI is their main output

David Delaney · February 3rd, 2007, 10:09 AM

Have anyone seen this:
http://www.ue.dk/nyhedsarkiv/10182.aspx

Would this work for a HD homemade camera?

Igor Babic · February 3rd, 2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Delaney

Have anyone seen this:
http://www.ue.dk/nyhedsarkiv/10182.aspx

Would this work for a HD homemade camera?

I hope so.

here is direct link
http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/fhg/iis...bs/microHD.jsp
I have send them email to give us some more info about senzor they using, and about the price.
I think that lan is only for configuration, and preview, HDSDI is their main output

Dennis Hingsberg · February 3rd, 2007, 03:59 PM

That link didn't work for me. I did a search on their site and found this:

http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/fhg/iis...bs/microHD.jsp

Igor Babic · February 5th, 2007, 12:43 PM

Today I have receive answer to my email.
They redirected me to this site:

Please contact.... ( I have edited this part because of personal email adress)
www.easylooksystem.com

I will ask this other person for details about this camera, and to join us on this forum.

Igor Babic · February 15th, 2007, 04:17 AM

Today I have receive email from easylooksystem. They are very interested to yoin us here, and i hope very soon we will find out more about their camera system.

Igor Babic · February 16th, 2007, 03:51 AM

Here it is, prices and basic info. Definetly not for home made guys. Broadcasters are probably they target market. Real live HDSDI video is what this camera gives out. No RAW. Its 18,500€.

Dennis Hingsberg · February 16th, 2007, 07:37 AM

Approx $50,000 USD? Is there something wrong with them? You can buy 3 red cameras for that price.

Igor Babic · February 22nd, 2007, 02:38 PM

Last couple of days I have receive some more info about this camera:

"The MODULA HD CAM is capable of providing RAW data. The RAW data output is not implemented yet, but we are planing to provide 12 (!) bit raw data over HDSDI link and to store it in open exr (http://www.openexr.com/) file format
We are shipping the MODULA HD CAM already. Our customers right now are "early adopters" with special applications. We also got some interest from indie film makers, who are considering to substitute their S 16mm camera with the MODULA. We are trying to get all the info (details, sample clips and stills) you and and other interested parties are asking for and to put it on the new web page. The web page relaunch is scheduled to be ready for the NAB in Las Vegas."

Denis:
18.000€ is about 23.600$
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/co...submit=Convert

Wayne Morellini · March 16th, 2007, 12:02 AM

Igor,

I have to ask, the www.arecontvision.com products, they sound very similar to Elphel product, do you know if they are they using Elphel open-source designs?

Thanks

Wayne.

Wayne Morellini · March 16th, 2007, 12:06 AM

Here is an 2000*850 frame at 85% Jpeg quality, from over at the Elphel thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....&postcount=544
http://www.buysmartpc.com/333/333framecc.jpg

Amazing what can be achieved with even an cheap sensor.

Igor Babic · March 16th, 2007, 02:04 AM

Wayne, I will ask them.

Take Vos · March 19th, 2007, 04:35 PM

Hello everyone,

A couple of weeks ago I found this forum and decided to take a shot into creating a bayer field recorder software application for Mac OS X. I have already some experience in writing field recorders for audio, see:
http://www.vosgames.nl/

In any case I've looked around for cameras for around a week and it seems like the Pike 210 from Allied Vision Tech is a pretty good contender. As this is a Firewire 800 IIDC camera the maximum resolution at 24 fps and 16 bits (14 bits + 2 bit padding) is around: 1786 x 760 (2.35:1) or 1920 x 654 (2.75:1).

I have also looked at the GigE cameras, but I can not find the specification of the protocol, so I've decided to go for IIDC for now. I've bought a cheap IIDC camera, called fire-i, to start experimenting.

The plan is to let OpenGL do the heavy lifting: dead pixel repair, black image subtraction, pixel sensitivity compensation, and reordering the pixels for better compression. The plan is to lossless compress the bayer image so that it will be possible to record on a single external SATA disk.

The OpenGL pipeline will also be used for previewing: demosaic, color conversion, false color (zebra patterns on steroids), HDR rendering, zooming for focus, more stuff I can think of.

I am not there yet of course, I currently can view (using OpenGL) a grey scale live-image from my fire-i camera.

I've been going round in circles for the last week; should I pre-process the raw data or not. pre-processing would yield better compression, doing these later could potentially give more freedom to choose a different algorithm.

As I already need to process the images in real time to show the camera operator what he is looking at... You can still record unprocessed images by using the NULL calibration settings, which is also the way to capture calibration data.

Cheers,
Take

January 29th, 2007, 12:06 PM	#496
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	What we need is a 1" sensor so we can get close to 24x18mm and no need for an imaging screen! __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

February 3rd, 2007, 08:34 AM	#497
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	*New, 448cm 1080p60 camera, and ultra thin reflected lens system* http://www.ue.dk/nyhedsarkiv/10182.aspx http://www.physorg.com/news89398752.html I have posted these, because they appear significant, for what can be done in the future. I am curious what price this camera will be, and compression/data rate, as it talks of network. The lens is very thin, it works by bouncing light around inside the lens, off of reflective surfaces, until it finds it's way to the sensor chip.

February 3rd, 2007, 03:59 PM	#501
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	That link didn't work for me. I did a search on their site and found this: http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/fhg/iis...bs/microHD.jsp __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

February 5th, 2007, 12:43 PM	#502
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Today I have receive answer to my email. They redirected me to this site: Please contact.... ( I have edited this part because of personal email adress) www.easylooksystem.com I will ask this other person for details about this camera, and to join us on this forum. Last edited by Igor Babic; February 5th, 2007 at 03:48 PM.

February 16th, 2007, 07:37 AM	#505
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	Approx $50,000 USD? Is there something wrong with them? You can buy 3 red cameras for that price. __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

February 3rd, 2007, 08:52 AM	#498
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	here is direct link http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/fhg/iis...bs/microHD.jsp I have send them email to give us some more info about senzor they using, and about the price. I think that lan is only for configuration, and preview, HDSDI is their main output

February 3rd, 2007, 10:09 AM	#499
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Have anyone seen this: http://www.ue.dk/nyhedsarkiv/10182.aspx Would this work for a HD homemade camera?

February 15th, 2007, 04:17 AM	#503
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Today I have receive email from easylooksystem. They are very interested to yoin us here, and i hope very soon we will find out more about their camera system.

February 22nd, 2007, 02:38 PM	#506
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Modula HD CAM latest info Last couple of days I have receive some more info about this camera: "The MODULA HD CAM is capable of providing RAW data. The RAW data output is not implemented yet, but we are planing to provide 12 (!) bit raw data over HDSDI link and to store it in open exr (http://www.openexr.com/) file format We are shipping the MODULA HD CAM already. Our customers right now are "early adopters" with special applications. We also got some interest from indie film makers, who are considering to substitute their S 16mm camera with the MODULA. We are trying to get all the info (details, sample clips and stills) you and and other interested parties are asking for and to put it on the new web page. The web page relaunch is scheduled to be ready for the NAB in Las Vegas." Denis: 18.000€ is about 23.600$ http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/co...submit=Convert

March 16th, 2007, 12:02 AM	#507
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Igor, I have to ask, the www.arecontvision.com products, they sound very similar to Elphel product, do you know if they are they using Elphel open-source designs? Thanks Wayne.

March 16th, 2007, 12:06 AM	#508
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Here is an 2000*850 frame at 85% Jpeg quality, from over at the Elphel thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....&postcount=544 http://www.buysmartpc.com/333/333framecc.jpg Amazing what can be achieved with even an cheap sensor.

March 16th, 2007, 02:04 AM	#509
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Wayne, I will ask them.

March 19th, 2007, 04:35 PM	#510
Take Vos Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Amsterdam The Netherlands Posts: 200	Creating new capture software Hello everyone, A couple of weeks ago I found this forum and decided to take a shot into creating a bayer field recorder software application for Mac OS X. I have already some experience in writing field recorders for audio, see: http://www.vosgames.nl/ In any case I've looked around for cameras for around a week and it seems like the Pike 210 from Allied Vision Tech is a pretty good contender. As this is a Firewire 800 IIDC camera the maximum resolution at 24 fps and 16 bits (14 bits + 2 bit padding) is around: 1786 x 760 (2.35:1) or 1920 x 654 (2.75:1). I have also looked at the GigE cameras, but I can not find the specification of the protocol, so I've decided to go for IIDC for now. I've bought a cheap IIDC camera, called fire-i, to start experimenting. The plan is to let OpenGL do the heavy lifting: dead pixel repair, black image subtraction, pixel sensitivity compensation, and reordering the pixels for better compression. The plan is to lossless compress the bayer image so that it will be possible to record on a single external SATA disk. The OpenGL pipeline will also be used for previewing: demosaic, color conversion, false color (zebra patterns on steroids), HDR rendering, zooming for focus, more stuff I can think of. I am not there yet of course, I currently can view (using OpenGL) a grey scale live-image from my fire-i camera. I've been going round in circles for the last week; should I pre-process the raw data or not. pre-processing would yield better compression, doing these later could potentially give more freedom to choose a different algorithm. As I already need to process the images in real time to show the camera operator what he is looking at... You can still record unprocessed images by using the NULL calibration settings, which is also the way to capture calibration data. Cheers, Take