Home Made HD Cinema Cameras - Technical Discussion

[Wayne Morellini]

Rai

From the Drake thread about the Ibis performance and previous pictures posted from another Ibis based camera.

I see, I wasn't aware (or forgotten) that the Ibis used was actually the Ibis5, and wasn't aware that global was not on it, as I thought Ben used it on the really bad examples. Well that explained things, I did some calculations that the sensitivity of the Ibis should be upto half that of the Altasens (which also has higher SN ratio). Still, again, are FF's figures for the internal dac, or with an good external dac.

It is interesting FF's FF*QE ratio, I guess this is saying the surface area percentage times QE, where as the Altasens doesn't use all it's area for fill (like traditional sensors) but gets double the QE. So the capacity of both are closer together. But then you get the problem with the secondary sensor function, around the main sensor, on the Ibis, just how good is the information derived from it.

[Wayne Morellini]

Some new removable cartridge drive systems in the Iomega road map.

http://crn.com/sections/breakingnews...cleId=60402260

[Wayne Morellini]

http://gamesradar.msn.co.uk/news/def...6&pagetypeid=2

There are other reports of this. I don't know wherever this will be PC based, or based on the xbox2 power pc architecture with an PC emulator, like they make for the Macintosh. It might even hit this year.

Now Microsoft has a cross platform development system (apart from .net) called XNA, so even more efficient code, theoretically, could be made for this system.

This means the Windows capture software, could be run, or even possibly recompiled for the xbox2 pc. Please note that this has over ten times more performance then a high end computer system.

Anybody For Xbox Cam HD, Sony certainly wouldn't be?


Other Platforms:

This brings up another thing, the XNA and .net are used to develop software across different MS OS's and processors (like ARM and probably Power PC). There is also a clone of .net available for other platforms.

http://www.Microsoft.com/XNA/

This allows for software to be recompiled for embedded platforms, handhelds, even mobiles. So we can look at using a small Pocket PC with 720p display eventually.

Wayne.

[Wayne Morellini]

Will it ever stop.

http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=8385

Nintendo has a Sony PSP like Gameboy Advance(d) SP to be released this year. The DS is just a monkier that they hope to make a Palm compatible PDA. They claim it will be based on the Power PC based Gamecube, and be the most advanced game console on the planet. Is this like, yep, will it beat PSP, did the more advanced Gamecube beat the PS2.

So if you want a handheld capture machine with a display to connect a camera and HDD too, here is another.

Thanks

Wayne.

[Joshua Starnes]

<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Morellini : Is this like, yep, will it beat PSP, did the more advanced Gamecube beat the PS2.

Wayne. -->>>

To digress for a moment.

It's a different market situation than PS2 versus Gamecube, though. The PS had already made tremendous strides against Nintendo when the PS2 debuted, so they had that brand name going for them.

Gameboy, on the other hand, has been a powerhouse in handheld gaming for 15 years. There've been more Gameboys sold than Nintendos, Playstations, and XBoxes combined. That's brand power. Most of the people (parents) going to look for them don't know its a Nintendo product, they just know they've got to buy a 'Gameboy' It's a name brand all of it's own.

Nintendo has more or less given up the #1 console position for good, but now Sony's coming to play on Nintendo's home turf, and they're not sitting back on their complacent haunches like they did in the 90s. Imagine the battle the first time if, instead of hanging onto the Super Nintendo too long, Nintendo had unleased a 32-bit CDROM based system with a full array of titles at the same time or close to the same time Sony did. We'd be looking at a completely different playing field right now.

Every console maker and his brother has made this attempt - Atari, Sega, Turbografix, now Nokia trying to get into the game - but no one has been able to dislodge Nintendo from this niche. It'll be a battle, make no mistake, and Sony will spend a ton of money to fight it, but in the end, I don't think they'll win.

[Wayne Morellini]

Thanks Joshua. Game cube was superior to PS2, but PS2 beat it to market, with the right feature set, and the loyalties of the GB owners didn't save them. The DS is an expensive (to make) slap in the face for GB fans, as now they have forked out for the inferior machine (that PSP is already starting to outsell) they are told that there was a better machine they would have preferred just around the corner, and with what discernible difference over the PSP in game play? This might lead people to say "stuff it, I'll just go and buy a PSP, now!" and not wait around with a dodgy (in terms of old technology) DS. The DS (without extra screen) is what the GBA should have been. The game-cube portable was rumoured around the time of the GBA launch. A DS power style model, was talked about before the Color Gameboy came out (being based on advance 3D chip technology from the early 90's). Nintendo has been playing a dangerous game for years, PSP is a wake up call to the real state of play.

The original Playstation design was the 32bit CD version of the SNES. Nintendo decided to go with the Silicon Graphic N64, and Sony decided to advance to the PS design.

Nintendo has maintained it's lead, not only on young games and brand loyalty, but because their technology has long battery life and is very portable. Now the DS is not so portable, and could have been better (in my opinion) while still maintaining he same battery life, things that would have appeased GB fans over a more powerful PSP. The move to PowerPC GB is a mistake. The Arm still maintains the lead in mips per watt, and the game cube was not a success. Either it is going to succeed over the PSP or it is going to backfire.

Now, my post is there to mention the potential of the GBA2 as a handheld capture, view, control and storage device, for the future. So let's stray back there.


Thanks

Wayne.

[Dan Diaconu]

I hope to be on topic here. I found this one:

http://www.isgchips.com/Templates/t_quadhdtv.htm

and with as much info avail on the net it would have not been hard to have missed it. Hope it helps.

[Joshua Starnes]

<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Morellini : Thanks Joshua. Game cube was superior to PS2, but PS2 beat it to market, with the right feature set, and the loyalties of the GB owners didn't save them. -->>>

Yeah, but GB owners don't buy Nintendo consoles, they buy more GBs. GB owners cross over the whole width of the console maket, including PlayStations and XBoxes, because it is seen as it's own seperate thing. That's what the PSP has got to fight against.


<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Morellini : The original Playstation design was the 32bit CD version of the SNES. Nintendo decided to go with the Silicon Graphic N64, and Sony decided to advance to the PS design. -->>>

I know, and that was their mistake. They decided they could spend FOREVER developing their console and their games and the public would wait for them, because they were Nintendo. The N64 was a better machine than the Playstation, but they took to long to put it out, and then they had hardly any games for it. What games they did have were usually good, but to create a large installed base you've got to have a large library. Nintendo got complacent and they got creamed. They're not going to make that mistake again.

[Rai Orz]

Dan,
there is a Panavision QuadHD™ Sensor inside. Its a very interesting, but also dramatically story behind this sensor, maybe the same story like we will see about altasens.

Panavision wonted build a sensor for HDTV application, for example sports: To capture a whole stadion, and zoom in later. They saw big big, business. See they press releases, but then.... The chip was completed and work, but.....it work only in rolling shutter mode.
They dont understand the different to movie cameras although they wrote it in the technical data sheet. The rolling shutter was not so fast as a movie camera shutter and thats why... no businesss. And now, at the web side, the listed application are only Biometrics, Security, Medical, but no TV.....

Thats the story of a great, but rolling shutter sensor....

http://www.panavisionsvi.com/imagers_Quad.htm

one example of a old press release is here:

http://ultimateavmag.com/news/11262/

[Wayne Morellini]

I don't want to get too side tracked but.

>I know, and that was their mistake. They decided they could spend FOREVER developing their console and their games and the public would wait for them, because they were Nintendo. ... Nintendo got complacent and they got creamed. They're not going to make that mistake again.

Yes that's also my point, about being complacent with the GB. Making a model that deviates from their low powered small, cheap to produce form factor and falls shorter than the PS2 by such a margin. Maybe the delay for the GBA2 is to bring it closer to this form facrtor. But luring users to the DS along side the old model (as done in times past) when it's so close. PS2 loyality is just enough to steal the market from the GB. But enough speculation, we will see, in time.

The problem with the 64 was going cartridge instead of CD. It restricted the size of games, made the games cost a lot more to produce, and lifted their price. I know there was talk of technologies at that time, that would allow for low priced mass storage of games on cartridges, that never came through. Maybe that is what they were intending.

Dan:

This sensor has been mentioned a number of times.

Rai:
Zoom in lattter, yes I had that idea years ago, big sensor then do pans/zooms. I can still see big use for it (for my original application for it).

[Joshua Starnes]

<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Morellini : I don't want to get too side tracked but.

Yes that's also my point, about being complacent with the GB. Making a model that deviates from their low powered small, cheap to produce form factor and falls shorter than the PS2 by such a margin. Maybe the delay for the GBA2 is to bring it closer to this form facrtor. But luring users to the DS when it' so close. PS2 loyality is just enough to steal the market from the GB. But enough speculation, we will see, in time. -->>>

Well, I dont' want to get too side tracked either, so this will be the last bit on this - but I don't think PS2 loyalty will transfer to PSP loyalty. History has proven to date that console loyalty has nothing to do with portable sales.

I'd also point out that the DS, while a mistake as an interim solution, is not a Gameboy and is not replacing the Gameboy. The GBA SP is still available and is still selling strong.

[Wayne Morellini]

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/luke/

Better specs than ever, but still waiting for new processors with dual core. I don't know what they mean by Fast Ethernet (hopefully note 100/10 again) and it does have dual PCI-E. I wonder when there will be cheap cameralink PCI-E cards?

It is meant to be for those panel computers (IE LCD viewfinder). If it does have Gige/s, then it might be suitable for 720p camera going on the (GPU shader assisted) performance people are getting in capture.

Wayne.

[Wayne Morellini]

The Xenon will reportedly have 1 Tera-Flop of processing power according to spong, about 5 times more than what I have previously heard (and as much as I have heard for eh Sony PS3):

http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=8436

Release date is 2005 holidays, but does that mean Christmas or summer holidays?

1 Tera-flop is 1000 Giga-flops, or over 20 times what we need to compress a HD digital stream live (and somewhere between 20-40 times that of the top Pentium 4, I think). So this should be able to handle capture/compression/editing UHD/IMAX type images, if enough Hard drives can be attached (the big question) and a interface can be made to the camera. At the moment no details of Gige/etc interfaces has emerged, needed for next HD cameras.

Programming for the system can be done on a PC in MS's XNA, and transfered across (so maybe some compatibility with present code). Alternatively, if a PC emulator ever comes into existence for it, it could run existing software (given the interface issue is solved).

There, apparently, is some sort of XBOX PC planned as well.

I am quiet surprised at all this, so I wait to see if it's true.

[Wayne Morellini]

I expect upto dual 2Ghz processors by the end of the year.

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050310_120805.html

Now what do I do, Apple Mac Mini, or dual cored VIA?

Thanks

Wayne.

[Obin Olson]

DUAL CORE