Home Made HD Cinema Cameras - Technical Discussion

Marto Lautz · October 27th, 2004, 05:52 PM

I would like to know in witch stages the software for the hd project is.
and ho is working on it.
also here is alot of comments about a variety of cmos censors but witch is really working (decent latitude smear and sensitivity)
I'm actually ready to start my own camera please feel free to contact me with any advise.

Wayne Morellini · October 31st, 2004, 12:58 AM

Go to the first post and follow the obsuracam wiki link, Rob has a development thread there. Common consensurs is to wait for the Altasens chips to come (shortly) from SI and Sumix. At the mement the 1080 SI camera and the IBIS (Sumix and others) are the 720p ones with global shutter, but none of these cameras are really upto scratch (requires extra work that is why people are waiting for the Altasens).

Obin and Rai has got rival camera project going.

Thanks

Wayne.

Laurence Maher · November 4th, 2004, 12:47 AM

I too would like to know some relatively solid dates on the HD box cams/ software coming out. I'm looking to shoot a feature soon, and need to consider the production timeline.

Rob Scott · November 6th, 2004, 03:34 PM

Hey guys, remember me? :-)

I have a (very) minor update on my development blog, but I haven't done any additional work on the software yet.

If anyone would like a username/password to help update the ObscuraCam wiki, please let me know and I'll be glad to let you in. I had to lock it down because someone was randomly deleting topics.

I tried to catch up with all the information, but I didn't see any recent updates about SI-1920 shipping dates. Any news?

Wayne Morellini · November 12th, 2004, 09:38 PM

Ronald pointed me to a minagp card and I found others, including DVI, HD, and the elusive LVDS.

http://www.commell.com.tw/Product/Pe...GP/miniagp.HTM

Real Drive performance
Here is an article on command queing, that thing I was talking about doing in software to Rob is available built in drives (including Raptor). The reviews also give some benchmark MB's tests that are interesting for us.

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20041116/index.html

Rob Lohman · November 17th, 2004, 09:22 AM

Wayne: I must say those results (especially in the MB/s graph)
look a bit weird for the command queing. Also the 10K drive
seems to make some weird jumps? What are your thoughts?

I assume these are read speeds as well (or did I miss something)?

Wayne Morellini · November 17th, 2004, 09:48 AM

I notice that too, but it is a bit late at night for analysing them, they have read and write tests. Not conclusive for our apps, but good pointer. Now those jumps, if I undertstood the bencmark (I.E, searched looked up and read) I might have a better understanding. I'm assuming they are not some weird design flaw (I didn't look to see if the article noted that). I assume it might be something to do with the track data size on the drive compared to the size of the file being written to, this would also interact with rpm speed. The size being written to might leave the head at a sufficent distance to cause the next command to wait for the platter to turn and head to move to location (is that right anybody) if this is sufficently missed, the drive has to wait for more than one rotation of the drive. On only sequential writes this maybe a problem compared to mixed commands (that command queing tries to optimise). For us we are trying to burst out sequentially as much as possible to aviode minor gaps needing the info to be stored non sequential sectors or waiting for the sector to spin around again. I'm interested do you guys get unexplained drop frames from this?

New 400GB drives:
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...16_130520.html

Wayne Morellini · November 17th, 2004, 10:15 AM

Technical Curiosities for the cash strapped:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20041113/index.html

Please note, there are other ways to do this, such as reflection (omly on the best Pannels). As far as Panels go I have seen amazing hi resolution panels lately. So maybe good cheap HD projection is not too far away.

Régine Weinberg · November 18th, 2004, 04:17 AM

Dear Wayne I've done this
it fun and work's

Steve Nordhauser · November 18th, 2004, 03:35 PM

Yup, I've been down this pathway also. I bought a couple of the projector panels, an overhead projector and was going to first start there and then build an integral unit. There is a group of people here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forum...php?forumid=20

I ended up buying an Epson projector on sale for $600 - it does what is supposed to. I'm sure eventually I will upgrade but for now, I think everyone should invest in a simple projector and a good screen. Sometimes there are too many projects and not enough time.

Valeriu Campan · November 18th, 2004, 06:13 PM

Would a Lilliput 8" be suitable? It has an odd resolution of 1440x234 pixels.
I am thinking to replace the 400W halogen globe of the projector with a board of 100 white LEDs... Their lumen/watt output should be greater than the halogen light and will run much cooler. Any thoughts?

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · November 18th, 2004, 07:23 PM

Is this related with LCD proyectors or with cameras?

Wayne Morellini · November 19th, 2004, 06:15 AM

Just an aside, but if anybody is cash strapped, they can get 720p (maybe 1080p) going cheap for their camera workflow (I wish a $600 Epson could do 1080p, over here the projectors start around $1100US). I actually wouldn't mind making my monitor into a 1080p one.

I have hundreds of pages printed out from when DIYaudio started doing it (I think there was one or two others on the web). I figure I can earn the money to buy a projecxtor quicker than reading the pages and making it.

Laurence Maher · November 19th, 2004, 11:52 PM

Well, I I stopped watching most of these threads because it seemed more likely that a company like summix or SI was going to come out with a decent 1080p cam before October, but now it's Novemember and as far as I know . . . nothing. What happened to all the cameras coming out, or was that just a bunch of bunk?

Please email me at laurencemaher@hotmail.com

Thanks

Wayne Morellini · November 20th, 2004, 03:09 AM

No Bunk, just delays :( , ussual in hi tech developements. See my reply on the Home made camera thread.

October 27th, 2004, 05:52 PM	#226
Marto Lautz New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: philadelphia PA Posts: 23	rob's software I would like to know in witch stages the software for the hd project is. and ho is working on it. also here is alot of comments about a variety of cmos censors but witch is really working (decent latitude smear and sensitivity) I'm actually ready to start my own camera please feel free to contact me with any advise. __________________ Martin Lautz Director of Photography Filmverlag Productions www.filmverlag.com

November 17th, 2004, 09:22 AM	#231
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Wayne: I must say those results (especially in the MB/s graph) look a bit weird for the command queing. Also the 10K drive seems to make some weird jumps? What are your thoughts? I assume these are read speeds as well (or did I miss something)? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 17th, 2004, 10:15 AM	#233
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	$300 DIY Projector Technical Curiosities for the cash strapped: http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20041113/index.html Please note, there are other ways to do this, such as reflection (omly on the best Pannels). As far as Panels go I have seen amazing hi resolution panels lately. So maybe good cheap HD projection is not too far away.

November 18th, 2004, 03:35 PM	#235
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	DIY projectors Yup, I've been down this pathway also. I bought a couple of the projector panels, an overhead projector and was going to first start there and then build an integral unit. There is a group of people here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forum...php?forumid=20 I ended up buying an Epson projector on sale for $600 - it does what is supposed to. I'm sure eventually I will upgrade but for now, I think everyone should invest in a simple projector and a good screen. Sometimes there are too many projects and not enough time. __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

November 18th, 2004, 06:13 PM	#236
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	DYO projector (OT) Would a Lilliput 8" be suitable? It has an odd resolution of 1440x234 pixels. I am thinking to replace the 400W halogen globe of the projector with a board of 100 white LEDs... Their lumen/watt output should be greater than the halogen light and will run much cooler. Any thoughts?

October 31st, 2004, 12:58 AM	#227
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Go to the first post and follow the obsuracam wiki link, Rob has a development thread there. Common consensurs is to wait for the Altasens chips to come (shortly) from SI and Sumix. At the mement the 1080 SI camera and the IBIS (Sumix and others) are the 720p ones with global shutter, but none of these cameras are really upto scratch (requires extra work that is why people are waiting for the Altasens). Obin and Rai has got rival camera project going. Thanks Wayne.

November 4th, 2004, 12:47 AM	#228
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	I too would like to know some relatively solid dates on the HD box cams/ software coming out. I'm looking to shoot a feature soon, and need to consider the production timeline.

November 6th, 2004, 03:34 PM	#229
Rob Scott Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, TN (USA) Posts: 358	Hey guys, remember me? :-) I have a (very) minor update on my development blog, but I haven't done any additional work on the software yet. If anyone would like a username/password to help update the ObscuraCam wiki, please let me know and I'll be glad to let you in. I had to lock it down because someone was randomly deleting topics. I tried to catch up with all the information, but I didn't see any recent updates about SI-1920 shipping dates. Any news?

November 12th, 2004, 09:38 PM	#230
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Ronald pointed me to a minagp card and I found others, including DVI, HD, and the elusive LVDS. http://www.commell.com.tw/Product/Pe...GP/miniagp.HTM Real Drive performance Here is an article on command queing, that thing I was talking about doing in software to Rob is available built in drives (including Raptor). The reviews also give some benchmark MB's tests that are interesting for us. http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20041116/index.html

November 17th, 2004, 09:48 AM	#232
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I notice that too, but it is a bit late at night for analysing them, they have read and write tests. Not conclusive for our apps, but good pointer. Now those jumps, if I undertstood the bencmark (I.E, searched looked up and read) I might have a better understanding. I'm assuming they are not some weird design flaw (I didn't look to see if the article noted that). I assume it might be something to do with the track data size on the drive compared to the size of the file being written to, this would also interact with rpm speed. The size being written to might leave the head at a sufficent distance to cause the next command to wait for the platter to turn and head to move to location (is that right anybody) if this is sufficently missed, the drive has to wait for more than one rotation of the drive. On only sequential writes this maybe a problem compared to mixed commands (that command queing tries to optimise). For us we are trying to burst out sequentially as much as possible to aviode minor gaps needing the info to be stored non sequential sectors or waiting for the sector to spin around again. I'm interested do you guys get unexplained drop frames from this? New 400GB drives: http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...16_130520.html

November 18th, 2004, 04:17 AM	#234
Régine Weinberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bordeaux, going to Bangkok, 2011 Posts: 232	Dear Wayne I've done this it fun and work's

November 18th, 2004, 07:23 PM	#237
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	Is this related with LCD proyectors or with cameras?

November 19th, 2004, 06:15 AM	#238
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Just an aside, but if anybody is cash strapped, they can get 720p (maybe 1080p) going cheap for their camera workflow (I wish a $600 Epson could do 1080p, over here the projectors start around $1100US). I actually wouldn't mind making my monitor into a 1080p one. I have hundreds of pages printed out from when DIYaudio started doing it (I think there was one or two others on the web). I figure I can earn the money to buy a projecxtor quicker than reading the pages and making it.

November 19th, 2004, 11:52 PM	#239
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	Well, I I stopped watching most of these threads because it seemed more likely that a company like summix or SI was going to come out with a decent 1080p cam before October, but now it's Novemember and as far as I know . . . nothing. What happened to all the cameras coming out, or was that just a bunch of bunk? Please email me at laurencemaher@hotmail.com Thanks

November 20th, 2004, 03:09 AM	#240
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	No Bunk, just delays :( , ussual in hi tech developements. See my reply on the Home made camera thread.