Liquid Ground Glass at DVinfo.net

Dan Miller · June 22nd, 2004, 08:55 PM

Earlier today I took two pieces of picture framing glass (3 inches by 3 inches) and spaced them so that they were 1mm apart. I then glued 3 of the sides with water sealant (Amazing Goop) and let them dry for an hour. Then I diluted some sour cream in water (it was the only thing I had at my disposal at the moment to try this) and used an eyedropper to insert the liquid in between the two pieces of glass. Turning off all of the lights in the house and using an old Pentax SLR 35-80mm zoom lens (4.0 being the widest opeing) pointing at the only lit corner (this set up didn't incorporate my video camera... I just pointed the lens directly at the glass to see if I am crazy or not), I was able to get a pretty darn good image besides the small chunks of sour cream floating around in the glass (I would of course have to find another white substance to dilute with water).

Anybody else try this?

Michael Ogasawara · June 22nd, 2004, 11:31 PM

Yes, I tried something similar with Elmer's glue (Elmer35 maybe?). It's on page 62 of the Adlu35 thread.

Filip Kovcin · June 23rd, 2004, 05:31 PM

he, he...

some time ago i thought about MILK, but was ashamed to say that loudly on this forum....

i thought that i'm maybe crazy... but thanks to this forum i can say that i'm not...

... well, at least not the only one who is crazy.

GG rules!!!!

filip

p.s.

can anyone tell me what is elmer's glue. i'm from poland and i do not know what this "elmer" means - how this stuff looks/works?

Rob Belics · June 23rd, 2004, 06:20 PM

"Elmer's" is a brand name for a plain, general purpose white glue used for gluing paper, wood and the like. Think of it as a much better quality "flour and water" paste.

Filip Kovcin · June 24th, 2004, 12:44 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : "Elmer's" is a brand name for a plain, general purpose white glue ... -->>>

tanks rob

Jim Lafferty · June 24th, 2004, 11:02 PM

Has anyone acid etched their glass yet?

James Ball · July 1st, 2004, 07:28 AM

Another thing to try would be a small water pump pumping the liquid.

A problem would be the thickness of the light path through the material. I'd think a thicker path would lead to a softer image.

The particle sizes though would be invisible to even a megapixel camera.

Milk, etc is a colloidal suspension of fat, sugars, and proteins. There are other materials you can make colloidal suspensions from.

For example, gold finely divided makes a red colloidal suspension, it looks like blood.

Remember when Moses ground the Golden Calf into fine powder and made the Children of Israel drink it? It's in Exodus.

I'll try to find a few alternatives that don't spoil.

Frank Ladner · July 1st, 2004, 12:30 PM

What about liquid latex, applied w/ the right amount thickness?

( This can be purchased from a store like Hobby Lobby or Michael's. I used it a long time ago for making stop-motion characters. )

Maybe fill a small space between two pieces of glass with it and allow it to dry.

I wonder if the color would change over time? What about if it was sealed?

Josh Brusin · July 1st, 2004, 05:44 PM

why not pour cloudy resin into thin-sheets at the opacity you want...

Bob Hart · July 2nd, 2004, 01:57 AM

Okay. Don't laugh. Promise. Okay.

On the bathroom shelf under the mirror covered in powder under an oily comb and one or two loose hairs, there was -- a red and white jar of brylcreem. I said don't laugh but it was pointless asking wasn't it. Okay let's move on.

Between two microscope slides, a large smear, - an excellent groundglass - for about ten seconds - then the water under pressure begins to coalesce into larger droplets and it all falls apart into a crocodile skin effect from there.

Sorbolene, another contender from the bathroom cabinet, fares better but the same effect occurs also air also gets entrained in the mix.

I guess the groundglass effect might be coming from there being microscopically small droplets of clear water in the white oil or whatever ( micro-lenses in effect perhaps ).

In lens manufacture, there is a glue which is used to join glass elements together for composite lenses. This glue does not harden until it is set off with ultraviolet light. If that stuff could be trained to contain an opaque ingredient, then there would be a contender for a stable grainless projection layer between two glasses. Any suggestions from the chemists out there?

Bob Hart · July 2nd, 2004, 07:51 PM

Furthur to above, Canestin ointment (for footrot and other fungus infections) works okay but has a visible grain slightly less than 5 micron AO.

Brett Erskine · July 3rd, 2004, 02:32 PM

Hey Bob your like a mad scientist - whatever you do dont blow yourself up.

Bob Hart · July 3rd, 2004, 10:00 PM

I was going to make some bleached beeswax until I found out I was likely to burn the house down trying, so that one is on the back burner so to speak for some dry weather when it can be done in safety in the backyard.

Michael Ogasawara · July 4th, 2004, 01:26 AM

It looks like the glue is a failure. The glue on the inside is gradually getting more transparent. Right now it's actually very good because it has no grain and high light transmission, but it has a strange effect where out of focus objects have a halo arond them (kind of like a soft-focus filter, but only on things that are blurred). It's actually a very unique effect, but unfortunetly not suitable for regular filming.

Josh Brusin · July 4th, 2004, 09:57 AM

good point... someone should develop a behind the lens filter set with some of these ointments and such.

June 22nd, 2004, 08:55 PM	#1
Dan Miller New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: 90210 Posts: 5	Liquid Ground Glass Earlier today I took two pieces of picture framing glass (3 inches by 3 inches) and spaced them so that they were 1mm apart. I then glued 3 of the sides with water sealant (Amazing Goop) and let them dry for an hour. Then I diluted some sour cream in water (it was the only thing I had at my disposal at the moment to try this) and used an eyedropper to insert the liquid in between the two pieces of glass. Turning off all of the lights in the house and using an old Pentax SLR 35-80mm zoom lens (4.0 being the widest opeing) pointing at the only lit corner (this set up didn't incorporate my video camera... I just pointed the lens directly at the glass to see if I am crazy or not), I was able to get a pretty darn good image besides the small chunks of sour cream floating around in the glass (I would of course have to find another white substance to dilute with water). Anybody else try this?

June 24th, 2004, 11:02 PM	#6
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Has anyone acid etched their glass yet? __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

July 1st, 2004, 07:28 AM	#7
James Ball Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sulphur, LA Posts: 61	pump it. Another thing to try would be a small water pump pumping the liquid. A problem would be the thickness of the light path through the material. I'd think a thicker path would lead to a softer image. The particle sizes though would be invisible to even a megapixel camera. Milk, etc is a colloidal suspension of fat, sugars, and proteins. There are other materials you can make colloidal suspensions from. For example, gold finely divided makes a red colloidal suspension, it looks like blood. Remember when Moses ground the Golden Calf into fine powder and made the Children of Israel drink it? It's in Exodus. I'll try to find a few alternatives that don't spoil.

June 22nd, 2004, 11:31 PM	#2
Michael Ogasawara New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 12	Yes, I tried something similar with Elmer's glue (Elmer35 maybe?). It's on page 62 of the Adlu35 thread.

June 23rd, 2004, 05:31 PM	#3
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	he, he... some time ago i thought about MILK, but was ashamed to say that loudly on this forum.... i thought that i'm maybe crazy... but thanks to this forum i can say that i'm not... ... well, at least not the only one who is crazy. GG rules!!!! filip p.s. can anyone tell me what is elmer's glue. i'm from poland and i do not know what this "elmer" means - how this stuff looks/works?

June 23rd, 2004, 06:20 PM	#4
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	"Elmer's" is a brand name for a plain, general purpose white glue used for gluing paper, wood and the like. Think of it as a much better quality "flour and water" paste.

June 24th, 2004, 12:44 AM	#5
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : "Elmer's" is a brand name for a plain, general purpose white glue ... -->>> tanks rob

July 1st, 2004, 12:30 PM	#8
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	What about liquid latex, applied w/ the right amount thickness? ( This can be purchased from a store like Hobby Lobby or Michael's. I used it a long time ago for making stop-motion characters. ) Maybe fill a small space between two pieces of glass with it and allow it to dry. I wonder if the color would change over time? What about if it was sealed?

July 1st, 2004, 05:44 PM	#9
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	why not pour cloudy resin into thin-sheets at the opacity you want...

July 2nd, 2004, 01:57 AM	#10
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Okay. Don't laugh. Promise. Okay. On the bathroom shelf under the mirror covered in powder under an oily comb and one or two loose hairs, there was -- a red and white jar of brylcreem. I said don't laugh but it was pointless asking wasn't it. Okay let's move on. Between two microscope slides, a large smear, - an excellent groundglass - for about ten seconds - then the water under pressure begins to coalesce into larger droplets and it all falls apart into a crocodile skin effect from there. Sorbolene, another contender from the bathroom cabinet, fares better but the same effect occurs also air also gets entrained in the mix. I guess the groundglass effect might be coming from there being microscopically small droplets of clear water in the white oil or whatever ( micro-lenses in effect perhaps ). In lens manufacture, there is a glue which is used to join glass elements together for composite lenses. This glue does not harden until it is set off with ultraviolet light. If that stuff could be trained to contain an opaque ingredient, then there would be a contender for a stable grainless projection layer between two glasses. Any suggestions from the chemists out there?

July 2nd, 2004, 07:51 PM	#11
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Furthur to above, Canestin ointment (for footrot and other fungus infections) works okay but has a visible grain slightly less than 5 micron AO.

July 3rd, 2004, 02:32 PM	#12
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	Hey Bob your like a mad scientist - whatever you do dont blow yourself up.

July 3rd, 2004, 10:00 PM	#13
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I was going to make some bleached beeswax until I found out I was likely to burn the house down trying, so that one is on the back burner so to speak for some dry weather when it can be done in safety in the backyard.

July 4th, 2004, 01:26 AM	#14
Michael Ogasawara New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 12	It looks like the glue is a failure. The glue on the inside is gradually getting more transparent. Right now it's actually very good because it has no grain and high light transmission, but it has a strange effect where out of focus objects have a halo arond them (kind of like a soft-focus filter, but only on things that are blurred). It's actually a very unique effect, but unfortunetly not suitable for regular filming.

July 4th, 2004, 09:57 AM	#15
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	good point... someone should develop a behind the lens filter set with some of these ointments and such.