kinetta at DVinfo.net

Michael Summers · June 3rd, 2004, 07:38 PM

maybe posted before but i was so overwhelmed about this camera since reading about it in this months DV mag.

www.kinetta.com

awesome.

Imran Zaidi · June 3rd, 2004, 09:09 PM

I saw this too... One question - why in the world would someone want to manually crank their camera? What am I missing?

Also, a quote from their PDF struck me as funny:

"There are more features than we have space to list..."

Um... it's an electronic PDF. What space limitations? I guess they just didn't feel like writing it down.

It looks like they're trying to appeal to the Super8 filmmaker in all of us. Sound like a great concept - but a really friggin' weird idea. I'm all for innovation, so let's see something real Kinetta.

Michael Summers · June 3rd, 2004, 09:14 PM

the crank looks fun
i'm all about making filmmaking fun, not making it less of a hassle. the more cool stuff and customizable options the better :)
i do agree that there are some holes in the PDF i dled too, what more can you do with a camera? the lens idea is pretty neat too
i heard it will start at 60 grand

Dylan Couper · June 3rd, 2004, 09:48 PM

For $60k I wouldn't want a crank. One more mechanical thing to break too.
Plus, how do you appeal to 8mm nostalgia with a $60,000 pricetag?

Luis Caffesse · June 4th, 2004, 07:26 AM

It was my understanding that the hand crank is an option used for speed ramps, not for all shooting.

I could be wrong on that, but I would be shocked if the hand crank was required at all times.

-Luis

Charles Papert · June 4th, 2004, 02:08 PM

To me, especially after reading the "Three Histories" link (great stuff, worth checking out), it feels like what Jeff has designed is a an updated version of the ultimate documentary camera, not so much "super 8 nostalgia". Long run times without mag changes (always a pain in a documentary setting), good handheld ergonomics and balance, low profile, compatible with film accessories so that it can be built up into a studio camera setup. An HD camera without fuss and complication; a form factor built from a lineage of handheld film cameras rather than Betacam. I think it looks just great.

The handcrank is just for speed effects. Cine mode is a bit gimmicky, re-creating the flickery look of traditional hand-cranked film, but Ramp mode is a bit more interesting--being able to speed ramp with exposure compensation with an organic interface i.e. a crank. Film cameras offer programmable control of this where you set the exact length of time of the ramp and the exact speed at either end, and then all you do is trigger manually, which is either great because it's repeatable or bad because you can't adjust the length of the ramp depending on the action. Often there is a knob which allows you to manually create the ramp, which can be better. The good thing is that you can set the limits so you land on the exact frame rate you want. With a crank, you would likely be off by a certain percentage, so if you wanted to ramp around and end up at 24 fps for sound sync, it would be dicey. Personally, I find this aspect of the camera a little "precious".

They've obviously worked hard to avoid things like digital displays etc. to keep it simple, but there is a lot to be said about a certain amount of data that makes life easy--how do you tell at a glance how much running time is left on the mag, battery status etc? If it's in the viewfinder (I doubt it), you have to power up the camera to check this?

Overall though, I applaud Jeff's approach and I look forward to seeing this puppy in action!

Jason Rodriguez · June 5th, 2004, 07:25 AM

Hey Charles,

Actually it is going to have a digital display, and there will be the option for computer-controlled ramping, again, the hand-crank is just an option for a more "organic" feel, rather than having to do it all in post.

There are a TON of features that the Kinetta will have, and yes, many more that are not on that PDF, and unforuntely I'm also not privy to tell right now. But suffice to say that for uncompressed, multi-frame rate disk-based recording, this camera is going to turn the industry on it's head until Arri, or Aaton, or Dalsa, etc. come out with something else.

Filip Kovcin · June 5th, 2004, 08:31 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : For $60k I wouldn't want a crank. -->>>

dylan, i think that this is just funny thing to have - just imagine, you can by even 100.000$ HD camera and still - no crank.

how often you will use it - to think about it as something you can brake?

you see - this is kind of bait, enticement for all of us. i do not think that WITHOUT this crank the camera will cost suddenly 10.000$ less... (or maybe i'm wrong. :)))

it's all about the FREEDOM. and FUN. so, why not.

i know jeff kreines (the inventor of kinetta) personally (i'm not his close friend, but i know his "style"), and he is extremely funny person, despite his serious knowledge. and i beleive that this is not just a weird option, but also some kind of strange priviledge for the owners of the kinetta - to feel that this camera is definetely DIFFERENT from the others.

just a thought

all the best,

filip

Nick Hiltgen · June 5th, 2004, 10:14 AM

Are there any sample shots from the camera yet? It seems like I've heard rumors about this cam for a while but I haven't seen a sample of the finished result.

June 3rd, 2004, 07:38 PM	#1
Michael Summers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 65	kinetta maybe posted before but i was so overwhelmed about this camera since reading about it in this months DV mag. www.kinetta.com awesome. __________________ www.astrosecretfilms.com real independent

June 3rd, 2004, 09:14 PM	#3
Michael Summers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 65	the crank looks fun i'm all about making filmmaking fun, not making it less of a hassle. the more cool stuff and customizable options the better :) i do agree that there are some holes in the PDF i dled too, what more can you do with a camera? the lens idea is pretty neat too i heard it will start at 60 grand __________________ www.astrosecretfilms.com real independent

June 3rd, 2004, 09:48 PM	#4
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	For $60k I wouldn't want a crank. One more mechanical thing to break too. Plus, how do you appeal to 8mm nostalgia with a $60,000 pricetag? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

June 4th, 2004, 02:08 PM	#6
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	To me, especially after reading the "Three Histories" link (great stuff, worth checking out), it feels like what Jeff has designed is a an updated version of the ultimate documentary camera, not so much "super 8 nostalgia". Long run times without mag changes (always a pain in a documentary setting), good handheld ergonomics and balance, low profile, compatible with film accessories so that it can be built up into a studio camera setup. An HD camera without fuss and complication; a form factor built from a lineage of handheld film cameras rather than Betacam. I think it looks just great. The handcrank is just for speed effects. Cine mode is a bit gimmicky, re-creating the flickery look of traditional hand-cranked film, but Ramp mode is a bit more interesting--being able to speed ramp with exposure compensation with an organic interface i.e. a crank. Film cameras offer programmable control of this where you set the exact length of time of the ramp and the exact speed at either end, and then all you do is trigger manually, which is either great because it's repeatable or bad because you can't adjust the length of the ramp depending on the action. Often there is a knob which allows you to manually create the ramp, which can be better. The good thing is that you can set the limits so you land on the exact frame rate you want. With a crank, you would likely be off by a certain percentage, so if you wanted to ramp around and end up at 24 fps for sound sync, it would be dicey. Personally, I find this aspect of the camera a little "precious". They've obviously worked hard to avoid things like digital displays etc. to keep it simple, but there is a lot to be said about a certain amount of data that makes life easy--how do you tell at a glance how much running time is left on the mag, battery status etc? If it's in the viewfinder (I doubt it), you have to power up the camera to check this? Overall though, I applaud Jeff's approach and I look forward to seeing this puppy in action! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

June 5th, 2004, 08:31 AM	#8
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	to Dylan <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : For $60k I wouldn't want a crank. -->>> dylan, i think that this is just funny thing to have - just imagine, you can by even 100.000$ HD camera and still - no crank. how often you will use it - to think about it as something you can brake? you see - this is kind of bait, enticement for all of us. i do not think that WITHOUT this crank the camera will cost suddenly 10.000$ less... (or maybe i'm wrong. :))) it's all about the FREEDOM. and FUN. so, why not. i know jeff kreines (the inventor of kinetta) personally (i'm not his close friend, but i know his "style"), and he is extremely funny person, despite his serious knowledge. and i beleive that this is not just a weird option, but also some kind of strange priviledge for the owners of the kinetta - to feel that this camera is definetely DIFFERENT from the others. just a thought all the best, filip

June 3rd, 2004, 09:09 PM	#2
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	I saw this too... One question - why in the world would someone want to manually crank their camera? What am I missing? Also, a quote from their PDF struck me as funny: "There are more features than we have space to list..." Um... it's an electronic PDF. What space limitations? I guess they just didn't feel like writing it down. It looks like they're trying to appeal to the Super8 filmmaker in all of us. Sound like a great concept - but a really friggin' weird idea. I'm all for innovation, so let's see something real Kinetta.

June 4th, 2004, 07:26 AM	#5
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	It was my understanding that the hand crank is an option used for speed ramps, not for all shooting. I could be wrong on that, but I would be shocked if the hand crank was required at all times. -Luis

June 5th, 2004, 07:25 AM	#7
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Hey Charles, Actually it is going to have a digital display, and there will be the option for computer-controlled ramping, again, the hand-crank is just an option for a more "organic" feel, rather than having to do it all in post. There are a TON of features that the Kinetta will have, and yes, many more that are not on that PDF, and unforuntely I'm also not privy to tell right now. But suffice to say that for uncompressed, multi-frame rate disk-based recording, this camera is going to turn the industry on it's head until Arri, or Aaton, or Dalsa, etc. come out with something else.

June 5th, 2004, 10:14 AM	#9
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Are there any sample shots from the camera yet? It seems like I've heard rumors about this cam for a while but I haven't seen a sample of the finished result.