Motion Sample Clip from 25P Custom Camera at DVinfo.net

Dan Vance · May 28th, 2004, 06:16 PM

For those who have asked and are still interested, I finally got around to posting a clip from my VC25P (3x1/2" CCD Progressive Scan camera), so you can see how the motion looks in 25P mode.
http://www.ColdDayInHellTheMovie.com
Click on the "Watch a Clip" button.

Les Dit · May 28th, 2004, 10:42 PM

Tell me again why this looks better than a normal 3 chip DV with progressive? Or a JVC HD10 (true progressive) , even with it's antique mpeg2 data?
How many good bits deep is that camera?

What should we be looking for in the compressed clip you have up there ?

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't get it!

-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Vance : For those who have asked and are still interested, I finally got around to posting a clip from my VC25P (3x1/2" CCD Progressive Scan camera), so you can see how the motion looks in 25P mode.
http://www.ColdDayInHellTheMovie.com
Click on the "Watch a Clip" button. -->>>

Joel Corkin · May 28th, 2004, 11:39 PM

Hi Dan,

Looks good. Looked a bit like 16mm to me, maybe because of the natural color palette. Nice job with the camera.

Dan Vance · May 28th, 2004, 11:57 PM

Joel,
Thanks!

Isaac Brody · May 29th, 2004, 08:03 AM

Dan,

Your footage looks really good. The color looks great and those are pretty impressive results from a homegrown camera. Can't wait to see that trailer. Have you tried any greenscreen work with it yet? I'd love to see how well your footage keys.

K. Forman · May 29th, 2004, 08:38 AM

I'm sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but what tape format are you using? Where did you get the parts, and what did it cost you?

Dan Vance · May 29th, 2004, 12:07 PM

Les,
As the title of this thread states, this is a "Motion Sample" clip. The Hitachi camera used in this system does NOT have progressive scan CCDs. The system achieves progressive scan by using a combination of the "frame-integration mode" of the camera and an external mechanical (rotating) shutter. This is all explained in detail in the Technical section of the website. Those who have read about the camera were curious as to whether this "pseudo progressive scan" technique gives the same motion look as "real" progressive scan. That's the purpose for the clip. There was never any claim or intention that this would be "better" than normal progressive scan. What IS better is that this is a 3x1/2" CCD camera, so it has the advantage of the larger CCDs over the 1/3" cameras like the XL1S and the DVX100. So the whole idea was to step up to 1/2" chips without stepping up to the next price level of around $25,000 for a progressive scan camera with chips larger than 1/3".
Issac,
Thanks. Haven't done any greenscreen (yet). Will be interesting to see how that works.
Keith,
Most of that info is on the Technical Details page of the website. The camera records directly to a CAPDIV hard disk, so there's no tape. Total cost (minus labor!) was about $2800.

Mark Grgurev · May 29th, 2004, 12:30 PM

When you say "external mechanical (rotating) shutter", do you mean physical shutter like on 35mm film cameras?

Dan Vance · May 29th, 2004, 01:49 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Grgurev : When you say "external mechanical (rotating) shutter", do you mean physical shutter like on 35mm film cameras? -->>>
Yes, there's a picture of the shutter (though not a very good one) at:
http://www.colddayinhellthemovie.com/VC25PTech.htm
But it's the combination of the shutter AND the frame-integration mode of the camera that enable the progressive-scan imaging.

Richard Mellor · June 1st, 2004, 03:55 PM

hi everyone

Thank you, Dan, for the clip ... this is so exciting. I can think of no other place where an engineer working on a protype would share with us help in building our own! I just got through watching the movie 'Visions of Light', and over the years the major studios competed with each other over the closely held cinematophgraphy techniques and equipment. Much of it ewas fabricated like your camera, and we're right there with the birth of the latest technology.

My next camera will be homemade.

Oh ... and when the window blew out I jumped!

Dan Vance · June 1st, 2004, 06:43 PM

Thanks Richard,
Feel free to email me if you need any help when you start building your own camera.

May 28th, 2004, 06:16 PM	#1
Dan Vance Built the VanceCam Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 109	Motion Sample Clip from 25P Custom Camera For those who have asked and are still interested, I finally got around to posting a clip from my VC25P (3x1/2" CCD Progressive Scan camera), so you can see how the motion looks in 25P mode. http://www.ColdDayInHellTheMovie.com Click on the "Watch a Clip" button.

May 28th, 2004, 10:42 PM	#2
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Re: Motion Sample Clip from 25P Custom Camera Tell me again why this looks better than a normal 3 chip DV with progressive? Or a JVC HD10 (true progressive) , even with it's antique mpeg2 data? How many good bits deep is that camera? What should we be looking for in the compressed clip you have up there ? I don't mean to be rude, but I don't get it! -Les <<<-- Originally posted by Dan Vance : For those who have asked and are still interested, I finally got around to posting a clip from my VC25P (3x1/2" CCD Progressive Scan camera), so you can see how the motion looks in 25P mode. http://www.ColdDayInHellTheMovie.com Click on the "Watch a Clip" button. -->>>

May 29th, 2004, 08:03 AM	#5
Isaac Brody New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 5	Dan, Your footage looks really good. The color looks great and those are pretty impressive results from a homegrown camera. Can't wait to see that trailer. Have you tried any greenscreen work with it yet? I'd love to see how well your footage keys. __________________ The enemy of art is the absence of limitations. -Orson Welles

May 29th, 2004, 08:38 AM	#6
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I'm sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but what tape format are you using? Where did you get the parts, and what did it cost you? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

May 29th, 2004, 01:49 PM	#9
Dan Vance Built the VanceCam Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 109	Shutter <<<-- Originally posted by Mark Grgurev : When you say "external mechanical (rotating) shutter", do you mean physical shutter like on 35mm film cameras? -->>> Yes, there's a picture of the shutter (though not a very good one) at: http://www.colddayinhellthemovie.com/VC25PTech.htm But it's the combination of the shutter AND the frame-integration mode of the camera that enable the progressive-scan imaging.

May 28th, 2004, 11:39 PM	#3
Joel Corkin Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto/L.A. Posts: 47	Hi Dan, Looks good. Looked a bit like 16mm to me, maybe because of the natural color palette. Nice job with the camera.

May 28th, 2004, 11:57 PM	#4
Dan Vance Built the VanceCam Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 109	Joel, Thanks!

May 29th, 2004, 12:07 PM	#7
Dan Vance Built the VanceCam Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 109	Les, As the title of this thread states, this is a "Motion Sample" clip. The Hitachi camera used in this system does NOT have progressive scan CCDs. The system achieves progressive scan by using a combination of the "frame-integration mode" of the camera and an external mechanical (rotating) shutter. This is all explained in detail in the Technical section of the website. Those who have read about the camera were curious as to whether this "pseudo progressive scan" technique gives the same motion look as "real" progressive scan. That's the purpose for the clip. There was never any claim or intention that this would be "better" than normal progressive scan. What IS better is that this is a 3x1/2" CCD camera, so it has the advantage of the larger CCDs over the 1/3" cameras like the XL1S and the DVX100. So the whole idea was to step up to 1/2" chips without stepping up to the next price level of around $25,000 for a progressive scan camera with chips larger than 1/3". Issac, Thanks. Haven't done any greenscreen (yet). Will be interesting to see how that works. Keith, Most of that info is on the Technical Details page of the website. The camera records directly to a CAPDIV hard disk, so there's no tape. Total cost (minus labor!) was about $2800.

May 29th, 2004, 12:30 PM	#8
Mark Grgurev Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fairview,nj Posts: 137	When you say "external mechanical (rotating) shutter", do you mean physical shutter like on 35mm film cameras?

June 1st, 2004, 03:55 PM	#10
Richard Mellor Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: cambridge ma Posts: 247	hi everyone Thank you, Dan, for the clip ... this is so exciting. I can think of no other place where an engineer working on a protype would share with us help in building our own! I just got through watching the movie 'Visions of Light', and over the years the major studios competed with each other over the closely held cinematophgraphy techniques and equipment. Much of it ewas fabricated like your camera, and we're right there with the birth of the latest technology. My next camera will be homemade. Oh ... and when the window blew out I jumped!

June 1st, 2004, 06:43 PM	#11
Dan Vance Built the VanceCam Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 109	Thanks Richard, Feel free to email me if you need any help when you start building your own camera.