Medium format idea

Mike Metken · June 11th, 2004, 05:19 AM

Unless you're making a big studio budget film, the medium format may not be practical because it is difficult to keep things in focus on things that move. Also the lenses are not as fast (need more light). It would be a nice addition to the 35 mm adapter though. Hacing a 35 and 60 mm adapter.

Wayne, medium format film is 60 mm; IMAX is shot on 65 mm film; very similar image size and DOF.

Mike

Wayne Morellini · June 13th, 2004, 08:51 PM

HI Guys

What about Medium format Beattie Intense screen, they will take custom orders as well:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&pagenumber=21

(if it comes out with the wrong page, times the page nuimber by 2 or 4, I'm using 50 or 100 posts per page)

They also found a very fine Nikon type D, unmarked matte screen:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&pagenumber=23

Thanks Mike.

Wayne.

Wayne Morellini · June 13th, 2004, 09:18 PM

Depth of feild is dependent of the size of the target. So condensing to CCD size from a MF lense without a projection screen will give you the normal CCD DOF and Convergent Angles. But does this work in reverse?

So can I use a Zoom on a 35mm lense to produce MF DOF? I have also noticed that my present zoom lense produces a projected image much bigger than 35mm film more like MF. So is this a way to get cheap MF lenses.

Thanks

Wayne.

Rob Belics · June 13th, 2004, 10:08 PM

DoF is dependent on the lens and aperture only, not the target. However, coverage changes for different target sizes so the lenses are changed thus changing DoF due to the lens change, not the target itself.

Frank Roberts · June 14th, 2004, 02:08 AM

If I were to position the camera (DVX100) directly above a medium format camera and shoot down into a plain focusing screen, would that be adequate? What type of achromat would I need for that and, any additional considerations? The talented guys who filmed Marla with their homemade mini35 kit (marlathemovie.com) did a great job and I was wondering if I could succesfully apply their concept to a DVX100 and a medium format. I'm new in the game here, so please forgive my backwardness. :)
Best and thanks- Frank

Mike Metken · June 14th, 2004, 02:28 AM

Wayne,

You can't do that. Even at the wide edges of the 35 mm film you have noticable light fallout. Further you go, more light you lose, also focus may not be as sharp there.

Mike

Wayne Morellini · June 15th, 2004, 01:45 PM

Thanks Rob and Mike

this differs from what I have read previously (that the reduction to target size is what reduces the limits of DOF). But still, using the zoom, am I in effect reducing Depth of field?

Thanks

Wayne.

Frank Ladner · June 15th, 2004, 02:30 PM

Jesse: Nice looking framegrabs! Thanks for posting them.

I notice some grain on some of the out-of-focus areas in the images. It isn't THAT noticeable, but this is the same thing I'm getting with my adapter, and I have done several tests, so I know exactly what it looks like.

(It is more evident in the motion footage.)

Rob Belics · June 15th, 2004, 05:09 PM

Wayne, yes, it is the same thing.

Frank Roberts · June 15th, 2004, 07:17 PM

Hey all,
I realize you guys are busy, and its probably a real pain to deal with my question (since its kind of elementary ), but if you have the time, please help! I have a Bronica Medium Format Camera and a DVX100. I'm going to buy a plain focus screen for it, and get an achromat for my DVX100, but I'm not sure what power I'll need to properly frame the screen. I'm going to do the same concept from the guys from marlathemovie.com (bonus section "just the facts" is where their diagram is located) but I want to use my Bronica rather than an SLR. So the DVX100 will be positioned directly above the medium format and shoot down into the Bronica focus screen. They will form sort of a 90 degree angle cam. Hopefully this makes sense! Will this work and do you have any tips? I'm worried about the light loss and grain if any. Thanks and best regards- Frank

Wayne Morellini · June 16th, 2004, 05:35 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : Wayne, yes, it is the same thing. -->>>

Thanks Rob, this opens up a number of cheap lense chioces. I'll check my primes for light drop off, and look out for a suitable multifocal zoom lense.

Frank Roberts · June 16th, 2004, 02:02 PM

Hey,
Just wanted to say that I know no one is obligated to answer posts, but it's interesting that if it pertains to the individual's needs, it will get a reply. This thread is just an example of how apathetic people are toward the needs of a beginner. I frequent 2-pop and I wish they were doing an equivalent thread on a medium format mini because I know they'd help. Sorry I posted here. Good luck with things- Frank

Jesse Rosten · June 16th, 2004, 02:20 PM

Wow... Frank my friend, patience is a virtue. Do you have the dvx100 or the dvx100a? If you have the latter you might not need any achromat. Have you tried focusing on your medium format GG viewer yet? I made one of these for an xl1 and the gg was so big that I didn't need a macro attachment.

Frank Roberts · June 16th, 2004, 03:12 PM

I have the patience of Job!!! Just kidding. I understand how it is and patience is certainly a virtue. Thanks for the reply Jesse. I need to get a differnet focusing screen to accurately determine if I can focus. I just bought this used Bronica and the focusing screen is gridded and dim. How'd your footage come out with the XL1?

Jesse Rosten · June 16th, 2004, 05:24 PM

the footage with the xl1 came out ok. I put my medium format adapter on hold though in favor of a smaller 35mm adapter. I found some of the "useablity" issues raised about this type of adapter to be true. It IS hard to keep stuff in focus, especially if your subject is moving, or if the camera is moving. But don't scrap your project. Perhaps with a little more practice some really nice images could come out of such an adapter. There is very little/no grain with this size of GG.

I posted a link with some pictures a few pages back on this thread.

June 13th, 2004, 09:18 PM	#33
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Photography question? Depth of feild is dependent of the size of the target. So condensing to CCD size from a MF lense without a projection screen will give you the normal CCD DOF and Convergent Angles. But does this work in reverse? So can I use a Zoom on a 35mm lense to produce MF DOF? I have also noticed that my present zoom lense produces a projected image much bigger than 35mm film more like MF. So is this a way to get cheap MF lenses. Thanks Wayne.

June 14th, 2004, 02:08 AM	#35
Frank Roberts New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 23	Medium format mini If I were to position the camera (DVX100) directly above a medium format camera and shoot down into a plain focusing screen, would that be adequate? What type of achromat would I need for that and, any additional considerations? The talented guys who filmed Marla with their homemade mini35 kit (marlathemovie.com) did a great job and I was wondering if I could succesfully apply their concept to a DVX100 and a medium format. I'm new in the game here, so please forgive my backwardness. :) Best and thanks- Frank

June 15th, 2004, 07:17 PM	#40
Frank Roberts New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 23	Medium format idea Hey all, I realize you guys are busy, and its probably a real pain to deal with my question (since its kind of elementary ), but if you have the time, please help! I have a Bronica Medium Format Camera and a DVX100. I'm going to buy a plain focus screen for it, and get an achromat for my DVX100, but I'm not sure what power I'll need to properly frame the screen. I'm going to do the same concept from the guys from marlathemovie.com (bonus section "just the facts" is where their diagram is located) but I want to use my Bronica rather than an SLR. So the DVX100 will be positioned directly above the medium format and shoot down into the Bronica focus screen. They will form sort of a 90 degree angle cam. Hopefully this makes sense! Will this work and do you have any tips? I'm worried about the light loss and grain if any. Thanks and best regards- Frank

June 11th, 2004, 05:19 AM	#31
Mike Metken Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 73	Unless you're making a big studio budget film, the medium format may not be practical because it is difficult to keep things in focus on things that move. Also the lenses are not as fast (need more light). It would be a nice addition to the 35 mm adapter though. Hacing a 35 and 60 mm adapter. Wayne, medium format film is 60 mm; IMAX is shot on 65 mm film; very similar image size and DOF. Mike

June 13th, 2004, 08:51 PM	#32
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	HI Guys What about Medium format Beattie Intense screen, they will take custom orders as well: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&pagenumber=21 (if it comes out with the wrong page, times the page nuimber by 2 or 4, I'm using 50 or 100 posts per page) They also found a very fine Nikon type D, unmarked matte screen: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&pagenumber=23 Thanks Mike. Wayne.

June 13th, 2004, 10:08 PM	#34
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	DoF is dependent on the lens and aperture only, not the target. However, coverage changes for different target sizes so the lenses are changed thus changing DoF due to the lens change, not the target itself.

June 14th, 2004, 02:28 AM	#36
Mike Metken Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 73	Wayne, You can't do that. Even at the wide edges of the 35 mm film you have noticable light fallout. Further you go, more light you lose, also focus may not be as sharp there. Mike

June 15th, 2004, 01:45 PM	#37
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Thanks Rob and Mike this differs from what I have read previously (that the reduction to target size is what reduces the limits of DOF). But still, using the zoom, am I in effect reducing Depth of field? Thanks Wayne.

June 15th, 2004, 02:30 PM	#38
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Jesse: Nice looking framegrabs! Thanks for posting them. I notice some grain on some of the out-of-focus areas in the images. It isn't THAT noticeable, but this is the same thing I'm getting with my adapter, and I have done several tests, so I know exactly what it looks like. (It is more evident in the motion footage.)

June 15th, 2004, 05:09 PM	#39
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	Wayne, yes, it is the same thing.

June 16th, 2004, 05:35 AM	#41
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : Wayne, yes, it is the same thing. -->>> Thanks Rob, this opens up a number of cheap lense chioces. I'll check my primes for light drop off, and look out for a suitable multifocal zoom lense.

June 16th, 2004, 02:02 PM	#42
Frank Roberts New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 23	Hey, Just wanted to say that I know no one is obligated to answer posts, but it's interesting that if it pertains to the individual's needs, it will get a reply. This thread is just an example of how apathetic people are toward the needs of a beginner. I frequent 2-pop and I wish they were doing an equivalent thread on a medium format mini because I know they'd help. Sorry I posted here. Good luck with things- Frank

June 16th, 2004, 02:20 PM	#43
Jesse Rosten Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Redding, California Posts: 114	Wow... Frank my friend, patience is a virtue. Do you have the dvx100 or the dvx100a? If you have the latter you might not need any achromat. Have you tried focusing on your medium format GG viewer yet? I made one of these for an xl1 and the gg was so big that I didn't need a macro attachment.

June 16th, 2004, 03:12 PM	#44
Frank Roberts New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 23	I have the patience of Job!!! Just kidding. I understand how it is and patience is certainly a virtue. Thanks for the reply Jesse. I need to get a differnet focusing screen to accurately determine if I can focus. I just bought this used Bronica and the focusing screen is gridded and dim. How'd your footage come out with the XL1?

June 16th, 2004, 05:24 PM	#45
Jesse Rosten Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Redding, California Posts: 114	the footage with the xl1 came out ok. I put my medium format adapter on hold though in favor of a smaller 35mm adapter. I found some of the "useablity" issues raised about this type of adapter to be true. It IS hard to keep stuff in focus, especially if your subject is moving, or if the camera is moving. But don't scrap your project. Perhaps with a little more practice some really nice images could come out of such an adapter. There is very little/no grain with this size of GG. I posted a link with some pictures a few pages back on this thread.