in-camera invert/revert for Aldu35 at DVinfo.net

Nicholi Brossia · March 25th, 2004, 08:05 PM

The Aldu35 is quickly becoming an efficient adapter. The only set back is dealing with the inverted/reverted image while keeping the cost down. So far, the best answer seems to be using an upside-down external monitor to record, then flipping the image in post. This approach costs a little more but is mainly very time consuming due to long render times. The best way to avoid all this mess, as most of you have figured out, would be to adjust the image electronically before being recorded to tape. Basically, this could be available as a menu setting on the camcorder (image is inverted and reverted before being displayed in the viewfinder and recorded onto tape). This "electronic inversion" setting isn't so much an invention (might even be as simple as updated firmware?) as it is a more convenient way to use the Aldu35.

Does anyone intend to pitch this "electronic inversion" idea to manufacturers? Would the big companies even pay attention to this little adapter's potential?

Brett Erskine · March 25th, 2004, 08:34 PM

If you asked me I would say they wouldnt be interested due to the relative size of this niche market. Dont get me wrong there is a record ammount of interest on this thread but when it comes to the active consumer market I dont think its as popular anywhere else then right here. I think unless camera manufactures plan on making their own form of a mini35 adapter your unlikely to see them support one. And as far as pro-sumer market is concerned small cameras will always be the goal and a full 35mm CCD and optics wont lend itself too well to that concept. In reality these mini35 adapters are short term solutions untill when get into larger CCD's at more affordable prices. When that happens is anyones guess.

John Jay · March 25th, 2004, 08:45 PM

if you visit this page

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...tures-pc7.html

and scroll down you will see details of a procedure which allows the Sony PC7 to record in mirror image mode

there are several references on the web to modifications to other Sony Cams which either do as above or at least mirror mode (rotate 180) the LCD display

So it would be fair to say that the NVRAM of Sony camcorders will allow this (most are mirror mode capable) provided you know the correct code to change, of course if you get it wrong you may make irrepairable damage

Maybe there is a Sony engineer who knows how to do this for a small? fee - the code will be different for each camera model

Its just a piece of information I am offering and not neccessarily a recommendation.

Nicholi Brossia · March 25th, 2004, 09:57 PM

You've both brought up very good points.

Brett, that makes total sense that the whole mini35 era will most likely be short lived due to increasing ccd sizes. 35mm ccds that record at 30, and even 60 frames per second won't be available for a few years yet, but most likely the manufacturers won't have an interest in short lived adapters.

John, the information you provided will probably end up being the most convenient and inexpensive way of going about this. If the Sony has this setting, there is a pretty big chance that other Sony and even Canon and JVC camcorders would have a similar setting to achieve an inverted image. Finding an engineer that would be willing to doctor up the settings would offer a great solution for a 35mm adapter camcorder.

I figured that even though its a good idea, its probably a long shot that won't even get a second look by the big guys. I am curious about changing the settings though. That would take some serious commitment, but would still be pretty neat.

Filip Kovcin · March 29th, 2004, 08:46 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Jay :
... there are several references on the web to modifications to other Sony Cams which either do as above or at least mirror mode (rotate 180) the LCD display...

john,

do you know about any links for pd 150, pd100 or panasonic dvx100 cameras - concerning "secret" menu stuff?

thanks,

filip

Nicholi Brossia · March 29th, 2004, 09:25 PM

I actually found a bunch on this the other day. Try searching Google for "RM95" and "Sony" and/or "NVRAM". The RM95 is a service remote that allows you to change settings via the lanc port. Apparently there is also a do-it-yourself computer program that works too. If you make any progress with this, let us know. In camera inversion would be great. Keep in mind though, that you can royally screw up your camera, so use this at your own discretion.

Here's a link I just found: http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/dv/codes/

I'm using a GL2 and, to be honest, I'm about ready to just turn the camera upside down and forget about fancy optical inversion.

Roman Shafro · March 31st, 2004, 08:12 AM

I've been doing changes to my PC100's EEPROM for a while now. Actually, PC100 is the least documented of all the SONY's when it comes to codes. I needed this to enable analog pass-through. While at it, I also enabled zebra, what the heck!

The way to NOT screw it up is to make changes in RAM only, without saving new values to the EEPROM. This way, your new settings are kept until you disconnect the battery. And forget about checksum modification, it's the most dangerous thing to do.

Here are some links:
http://www.coastweb.de/dv/
http://lea.hamradio.si/~s51kq/DV-IN.HTM
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1464.1/
http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/dv/codes/

Nicholi Brossia · March 31st, 2004, 02:04 PM

Great links, Roman. Maybe there is hope yet.

March 25th, 2004, 08:05 PM	#1
Nicholi Brossia Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 389	in-camera invert/revert for Aldu35 The Aldu35 is quickly becoming an efficient adapter. The only set back is dealing with the inverted/reverted image while keeping the cost down. So far, the best answer seems to be using an upside-down external monitor to record, then flipping the image in post. This approach costs a little more but is mainly very time consuming due to long render times. The best way to avoid all this mess, as most of you have figured out, would be to adjust the image electronically before being recorded to tape. Basically, this could be available as a menu setting on the camcorder (image is inverted and reverted before being displayed in the viewfinder and recorded onto tape). This "electronic inversion" setting isn't so much an invention (might even be as simple as updated firmware?) as it is a more convenient way to use the Aldu35. Does anyone intend to pitch this "electronic inversion" idea to manufacturers? Would the big companies even pay attention to this little adapter's potential? __________________ Nicholi Brossia

March 25th, 2004, 08:45 PM	#3
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	if you visit this page http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...tures-pc7.html and scroll down you will see details of a procedure which allows the Sony PC7 to record in mirror image mode there are several references on the web to modifications to other Sony Cams which either do as above or at least mirror mode (rotate 180) the LCD display So it would be fair to say that the NVRAM of Sony camcorders will allow this (most are mirror mode capable) provided you know the correct code to change, of course if you get it wrong you may make irrepairable damage Maybe there is a Sony engineer who knows how to do this for a small? fee - the code will be different for each camera model Its just a piece of information I am offering and not neccessarily a recommendation. __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

March 25th, 2004, 09:57 PM	#4
Nicholi Brossia Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 389	You've both brought up very good points. Brett, that makes total sense that the whole mini35 era will most likely be short lived due to increasing ccd sizes. 35mm ccds that record at 30, and even 60 frames per second won't be available for a few years yet, but most likely the manufacturers won't have an interest in short lived adapters. John, the information you provided will probably end up being the most convenient and inexpensive way of going about this. If the Sony has this setting, there is a pretty big chance that other Sony and even Canon and JVC camcorders would have a similar setting to achieve an inverted image. Finding an engineer that would be willing to doctor up the settings would offer a great solution for a 35mm adapter camcorder. I figured that even though its a good idea, its probably a long shot that won't even get a second look by the big guys. I am curious about changing the settings though. That would take some serious commitment, but would still be pretty neat. __________________ Nicholi Brossia

March 29th, 2004, 08:46 PM	#5
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	to john jay <<<-- Originally posted by John Jay : ... there are several references on the web to modifications to other Sony Cams which either do as above or at least mirror mode (rotate 180) the LCD display... john, do you know about any links for pd 150, pd100 or panasonic dvx100 cameras - concerning "secret" menu stuff? thanks, filip

March 29th, 2004, 09:25 PM	#6
Nicholi Brossia Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 389	I actually found a bunch on this the other day. Try searching Google for "RM95" and "Sony" and/or "NVRAM". The RM95 is a service remote that allows you to change settings via the lanc port. Apparently there is also a do-it-yourself computer program that works too. If you make any progress with this, let us know. In camera inversion would be great. Keep in mind though, that you can royally screw up your camera, so use this at your own discretion. Here's a link I just found: http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/dv/codes/ I'm using a GL2 and, to be honest, I'm about ready to just turn the camera upside down and forget about fancy optical inversion. __________________ Nicholi Brossia

March 25th, 2004, 08:34 PM	#2
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	If you asked me I would say they wouldnt be interested due to the relative size of this niche market. Dont get me wrong there is a record ammount of interest on this thread but when it comes to the active consumer market I dont think its as popular anywhere else then right here. I think unless camera manufactures plan on making their own form of a mini35 adapter your unlikely to see them support one. And as far as pro-sumer market is concerned small cameras will always be the goal and a full 35mm CCD and optics wont lend itself too well to that concept. In reality these mini35 adapters are short term solutions untill when get into larger CCD's at more affordable prices. When that happens is anyones guess.

March 31st, 2004, 08:12 AM	#7
Roman Shafro Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 84	I've been doing changes to my PC100's EEPROM for a while now. Actually, PC100 is the least documented of all the SONY's when it comes to codes. I needed this to enable analog pass-through. While at it, I also enabled zebra, what the heck! The way to NOT screw it up is to make changes in RAM only, without saving new values to the EEPROM. This way, your new settings are kept until you disconnect the battery. And forget about checksum modification, it's the most dangerous thing to do. Here are some links: http://www.coastweb.de/dv/ http://lea.hamradio.si/~s51kq/DV-IN.HTM http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1464.1/ http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/dv/codes/

March 31st, 2004, 02:04 PM	#8
Nicholi Brossia Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 389	Great links, Roman. Maybe there is hope yet. __________________ Nicholi Brossia