Mixing Mini35 and Sraight XL1s Footage at DVinfo.net

Jim Giberti · January 27th, 2004, 08:23 PM

I've got a couple of challenging shoots coming up...one a promo piece for Lake Placid tying in the feel of the new film "Miracle" . Another at the New Englad Museum for an animated show we're producing and another at the Smisthonian for another client.

The bottom line is each of these shoots don't allow for the Mini35 in some situations...ski along action on mountain as well as some of the Olympic courses, The NE Aquarium needs to be low profile and natural light by definition (real interesting underwater) and the Smisthonian has similar restrictions.

So, I'm going to pick up the original 14x manual lens for the XL1s (I can't stand the idea of using the auto, servo lens). For the animated project, I'll be able to work in all straight XL1 frame, but on the other two, I'll be shooting key talent and close-ups in Mini35 and perhaps mixing action/B-roll from the manual 14x.

Anyone ever done it...if not I'll be your guinea pig yet again <g>.

Nick Hiltgen · February 19th, 2004, 01:56 AM

Hey jim, I just tested out that same setup that you willl be using, here's the deal.

With the 14x lens you're going to notice the footage looks a lot brighter and sharper, though if you set your mm to approx 1/4 (to 1/7?) the size of that as the primes you may be shooting with you'll get a depth of field that is about 1/3 that of the p+s. For example in order to match the fram size of that of a 50mm prime on the P+S I had to set the zoom to some rediculous low number like 7mm or 12.5 (I don't remember which) then if you want to match the looks in post, you'll need to close your iris down (on the 14x) and through up some grain (FCP has a plug in I forget what it is) You'll notice that your DOF isn't as nice as that of the P+S (50mm in my case) but you'll start getting close to the same picture.

I don't know if that answers any of your questions I can show you the footage if I an find it and then again a place to post it, and then figure out how to do that... hmm hope that helps.

Also
Maybe it's because I saw it projected digitally, but it felt to me like miracle has almost a video lens feel, (I.e.) deep DOF I don't know I could be wrong but I remember being struck by it in a couple of scenes. So maybe the 14x lens will work out after all.

Best of luck
Nick

Jim Giberti · February 19th, 2004, 11:58 AM

Hi Nick,
I've had some time just recently to test the 14x and Mini35 for mixing footage. And for the record everyone...the Mini35 with the XL1s definitely has higher resolution than even the straight XL1s interlaced. It's an interesting phenomenon that Mizell (where is our fearless leader these days) pointed out.

Anyway, I've been expirementing with custom settings for the best M35 look, and I've settled on a step up in sharpness and chroma, and most importantly two seps down in the setup, which does wonders for contrast ad solid blacks.

I'm just in the middle of negotiiating a short film on the Olympics that will be all M35, except for probably some of the more extreme live scenes and archival footage. I'm getting more and more comfortable using the full manual in frame to mix this footage. by the way...the 14x is a great piece of glass, especially when you can pick it up new for $900. People are crazy to shoot with this camera using the stock lens when this is available.

I have a lot of opportunity these next few weeks to shoot in both formats and develop the technique...hey it's fun to be on the edge witht his stuff <g>. Also, it's really kind of an imperative to work with deeper focus with more action oriented work, and the potential issues of stopping down the M35 in these situations isn't optimum. There are many times when using the deep focus of video, but in 24 or 30p is a great compromise...using the two together could make for a great and affordable combination in these types of projects, and like i said, I'll be able to tel you a lot more in the coming months of work.

January 27th, 2004, 08:23 PM	#1
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Mixing Mini35 and Sraight XL1s Footage I've got a couple of challenging shoots coming up...one a promo piece for Lake Placid tying in the feel of the new film "Miracle" . Another at the New Englad Museum for an animated show we're producing and another at the Smisthonian for another client. The bottom line is each of these shoots don't allow for the Mini35 in some situations...ski along action on mountain as well as some of the Olympic courses, The NE Aquarium needs to be low profile and natural light by definition (real interesting underwater) and the Smisthonian has similar restrictions. So, I'm going to pick up the original 14x manual lens for the XL1s (I can't stand the idea of using the auto, servo lens). For the animated project, I'll be able to work in all straight XL1 frame, but on the other two, I'll be shooting key talent and close-ups in Mini35 and perhaps mixing action/B-roll from the manual 14x. Anyone ever done it...if not I'll be your guinea pig yet again <g>.

February 19th, 2004, 01:56 AM	#2
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Hey jim, I just tested out that same setup that you willl be using, here's the deal. With the 14x lens you're going to notice the footage looks a lot brighter and sharper, though if you set your mm to approx 1/4 (to 1/7?) the size of that as the primes you may be shooting with you'll get a depth of field that is about 1/3 that of the p+s. For example in order to match the fram size of that of a 50mm prime on the P+S I had to set the zoom to some rediculous low number like 7mm or 12.5 (I don't remember which) then if you want to match the looks in post, you'll need to close your iris down (on the 14x) and through up some grain (FCP has a plug in I forget what it is) You'll notice that your DOF isn't as nice as that of the P+S (50mm in my case) but you'll start getting close to the same picture. I don't know if that answers any of your questions I can show you the footage if I an find it and then again a place to post it, and then figure out how to do that... hmm hope that helps. Also Maybe it's because I saw it projected digitally, but it felt to me like miracle has almost a video lens feel, (I.e.) deep DOF I don't know I could be wrong but I remember being struck by it in a couple of scenes. So maybe the 14x lens will work out after all. Best of luck Nick

February 19th, 2004, 11:58 AM	#3
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Hi Nick, I've had some time just recently to test the 14x and Mini35 for mixing footage. And for the record everyone...the Mini35 with the XL1s definitely has higher resolution than even the straight XL1s interlaced. It's an interesting phenomenon that Mizell (where is our fearless leader these days) pointed out. Anyway, I've been expirementing with custom settings for the best M35 look, and I've settled on a step up in sharpness and chroma, and most importantly two seps down in the setup, which does wonders for contrast ad solid blacks. I'm just in the middle of negotiiating a short film on the Olympics that will be all M35, except for probably some of the more extreme live scenes and archival footage. I'm getting more and more comfortable using the full manual in frame to mix this footage. by the way...the 14x is a great piece of glass, especially when you can pick it up new for $900. People are crazy to shoot with this camera using the stock lens when this is available. I have a lot of opportunity these next few weeks to shoot in both formats and develop the technique...hey it's fun to be on the edge witht his stuff <g>. Also, it's really kind of an imperative to work with deeper focus with more action oriented work, and the potential issues of stopping down the M35 in these situations isn't optimum. There are many times when using the deep focus of video, but in 24 or 30p is a great compromise...using the two together could make for a great and affordable combination in these types of projects, and like i said, I'll be able to tel you a lot more in the coming months of work.