4:4:4 12-bit Uncompressed DVX100

Jef Bryant · February 13th, 2004, 05:51 AM

I hope you go all the way with this and are successful.

Would I pay $1000.00 for it if I knew it worked? Almost certainly. I bet there are a lot of dvx owners out there who would.

Obin Olson · February 13th, 2004, 07:46 AM

guys I think that maybe some of you have not been on-top of what the latest standard disk drives can do..I put a cheap uncompressed capture card in my 2.6ghz Intell P4 system with ONE systemdrive that is a SATA and I can capture alldaylong iwth NO dropped frames...has this been the case for years? NO ...is it the case now? yes...things change and get faster all the time!

Hey anything I can do to help with the system call me in! this is the best thing since sliced bread to happen for a DV camcorder...KEEP AT IT TILL YOU GET IT DOWN! I want my dvx modified!

Obin Olson · February 13th, 2004, 07:48 AM

BTW I offer my services for any CNC work you may or may not need for this system!

I will be making radio control focus systems for the dvx shortly with CNC so let me know if you need anything! maybe a nice highquality design for a "box" that mounts on the camera?

Obin Olson · February 13th, 2004, 08:03 AM

juan...OMG I have a SICK idea! get your hands on a Panasonic Black Maba mx7000 it has 3 megapixels and is a 3ccd camera

http://www.supervideo.com/panason.htm

check the above link

Rodger Marjama · February 13th, 2004, 08:19 AM

I suppose everyone see a little clearer then then did a couple of days ago on the probability of this actually being possible - Myself included. As I have been involved with computers and this technology since 1970, I'm a bit of an 'ol dog and admittedly not a very watchful one for the past 4 or 5 years now.

As I said in my first post, I would love to see this happen and this is still true. I do still feel its a very long shot, but keep plugging away at it and once we can see actual clips I'm sure many will be willing to support and effort to complete the development necessary to manufacture this product.

If clips can be made, I could offer free hosting and enough bandwidth to move about 5 gig per day and possibly make more available as it becomes necessary.

-Rodger

John Gaspain · February 13th, 2004, 12:43 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : juan...OMG I have a SICK idea! get your hands on a Panasonic Black Maba mx7000 it has 3 megapixels and is a 3ccd camera

http://www.supervideo.com/panason.htm

check the above link -->>>

I intend to do this with my MX5000(DV953), its a 3Megapixel, 3CCD, nearly the same as a Mx7000(GS100) internally speaking

added: I will also get higher Resolution, 934x768 is the actual CCD resolution, because the cam down converts to 720x480 to fit on DV tape.

Im getting excited!

Stephen van Vuuren · February 13th, 2004, 01:09 PM

Just a note:

There is no such thing as an MX7000 - that's just the Japanese GS100 cam. Visit our Panasonic DV forum here for more details.

All posts and info on www.supervideo.com, IMHO, should be taken with the largest grain of salt available...

Plus, his pages easily rank in the HTML hall of shame and seem to get worse with time rather than better....

John Gaspain · February 13th, 2004, 01:14 PM

Agreed Stephen

Obin Olson · February 14th, 2004, 09:46 AM

john are you really going to do this?

Juan P. Pertierra · February 15th, 2004, 02:58 PM

I am not completely certain, but I beleive the raw output from the DVX's CCD's is 966x492.

At this point, it all comes down to the chip clip. if it is small enough(and i think it is) to fit on the chip with the board installed, then I can order it and have it working soon.

A word about '1.3MP' video cameras and the like...
There are two possible reasons why this idea would not work and yield HD video in such cameras...one, it is common for the manufacturers to install a large CCD to be able to read a slow frame and take a picture, but only scan a lower res at a faster rate for video.

Second, the cameras in which the entire MP CCD IS read for video(and then resized to NTSC) such as the sony TRV70, are usually 1 CCD cameras, which means that they cram 10 or 12 bit color mosaiqued into a single CCD.

Now you can do the math...say 1.3MP, 30fps, and 12-bit's...that's a lot of data. In all the cameras i researched for this experiment, the ones setup like this worked at such a high bitrate that capture to disk would be VERY hard.

This is why I picked the DVX or any other standard frame size 3CCD camera...the relatively low rez and the fact that the data is spread in parallel between 3CCD's lowers the overall clock rate to something that is workable with a hard disk.

Will keep you guys informed..i'm waiting for a response from the test clip people.

Juan

Obin Olson · February 15th, 2004, 04:47 PM

can't wait to hear what happens! keep it up, don't stop now :)

Obin Olson · February 15th, 2004, 05:16 PM

what makes you think that the image is 966x492???

what your saying is that this thing is somthing like this:
http://www.dv3productions.com/test_i...image_size.jpg

do you know if it is a clear sharp image all the way edge to edge? this will be GREAT for using steady software to smooth out shaky video and also for downconverting to SD size!

Craig Weinstein · February 15th, 2004, 06:18 PM

Question: what editing/capturing apparatus would one need to edit 12-bit uncompressed RAW video such as this?

Also, will a successful application of this technology on a DVX100 require that sound be recorded separately and synchronized in post?

-Craig Weinstein

Craig Weinstein · February 15th, 2004, 06:21 PM

Additional question: will the 24P Advanced and 30P shooting modes be preserved or will 60i be the only mode available?

John Gaspain · February 15th, 2004, 10:24 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : john are you really going to do this? -->>>

yea, Obin I plan on it

I just dont really know what to do yet, aside from what Jaun has presented.

If I had more information as to which chip to jumper I would be well on my way, otherwise its a needle in a haystack.

Also what would be the prefered interface for video capture?

John

February 13th, 2004, 05:51 AM	#61
Jef Bryant Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 31	go for it I hope you go all the way with this and are successful. Would I pay $1000.00 for it if I knew it worked? Almost certainly. I bet there are a lot of dvx owners out there who would.

February 13th, 2004, 07:46 AM	#62
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	um I can capture uncompressed guys I think that maybe some of you have not been on-top of what the latest standard disk drives can do..I put a cheap uncompressed capture card in my 2.6ghz Intell P4 system with ONE systemdrive that is a SATA and I can capture alldaylong iwth NO dropped frames...has this been the case for years? NO ...is it the case now? yes...things change and get faster all the time! Hey anything I can do to help with the system call me in! this is the best thing since sliced bread to happen for a DV camcorder...KEEP AT IT TILL YOU GET IT DOWN! I want my dvx modified!

February 13th, 2004, 08:03 AM	#64
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	HD 4:4:4 ?? juan...OMG I have a SICK idea! get your hands on a Panasonic Black Maba mx7000 it has 3 megapixels and is a 3ccd camera http://www.supervideo.com/panason.htm check the above link

February 13th, 2004, 08:19 AM	#65
Rodger Marjama Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 101	I suppose everyone see a little clearer then then did a couple of days ago on the probability of this actually being possible - Myself included. As I have been involved with computers and this technology since 1970, I'm a bit of an 'ol dog and admittedly not a very watchful one for the past 4 or 5 years now. As I said in my first post, I would love to see this happen and this is still true. I do still feel its a very long shot, but keep plugging away at it and once we can see actual clips I'm sure many will be willing to support and effort to complete the development necessary to manufacture this product. If clips can be made, I could offer free hosting and enough bandwidth to move about 5 gig per day and possibly make more available as it becomes necessary. -Rodger __________________ Rodger Marjama www.speedwing.net

February 13th, 2004, 12:43 PM	#66
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	Re: HD 4:4:4 ?? <<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : juan...OMG I have a SICK idea! get your hands on a Panasonic Black Maba mx7000 it has 3 megapixels and is a 3ccd camera http://www.supervideo.com/panason.htm check the above link -->>> I intend to do this with my MX5000(DV953), its a 3Megapixel, 3CCD, nearly the same as a Mx7000(GS100) internally speaking added: I will also get higher Resolution, 934x768 is the actual CCD resolution, because the cam down converts to 720x480 to fit on DV tape. Im getting excited! __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

February 13th, 2004, 07:48 AM	#63
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	BTW I offer my services for any CNC work you may or may not need for this system! I will be making radio control focus systems for the dvx shortly with CNC so let me know if you need anything! maybe a nice highquality design for a "box" that mounts on the camera?

February 13th, 2004, 01:09 PM	#67
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Just a note: There is no such thing as an MX7000 - that's just the Japanese GS100 cam. Visit our Panasonic DV forum here for more details. All posts and info on www.supervideo.com, IMHO, should be taken with the largest grain of salt available... Plus, his pages easily rank in the HTML hall of shame and seem to get worse with time rather than better.... __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

February 13th, 2004, 01:14 PM	#68
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	Agreed Stephen __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

February 14th, 2004, 09:46 AM	#69
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	john are you really going to do this?

February 15th, 2004, 02:58 PM	#70
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	I am not completely certain, but I beleive the raw output from the DVX's CCD's is 966x492. At this point, it all comes down to the chip clip. if it is small enough(and i think it is) to fit on the chip with the board installed, then I can order it and have it working soon. A word about '1.3MP' video cameras and the like... There are two possible reasons why this idea would not work and yield HD video in such cameras...one, it is common for the manufacturers to install a large CCD to be able to read a slow frame and take a picture, but only scan a lower res at a faster rate for video. Second, the cameras in which the entire MP CCD IS read for video(and then resized to NTSC) such as the sony TRV70, are usually 1 CCD cameras, which means that they cram 10 or 12 bit color mosaiqued into a single CCD. Now you can do the math...say 1.3MP, 30fps, and 12-bit's...that's a lot of data. In all the cameras i researched for this experiment, the ones setup like this worked at such a high bitrate that capture to disk would be VERY hard. This is why I picked the DVX or any other standard frame size 3CCD camera...the relatively low rez and the fact that the data is spread in parallel between 3CCD's lowers the overall clock rate to something that is workable with a hard disk. Will keep you guys informed..i'm waiting for a response from the test clip people. Juan

February 15th, 2004, 04:47 PM	#71
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	can't wait to hear what happens! keep it up, don't stop now :)

February 15th, 2004, 05:16 PM	#72
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	what makes you think that the image is 966x492??? what your saying is that this thing is somthing like this: http://www.dv3productions.com/test_i...image_size.jpg do you know if it is a clear sharp image all the way edge to edge? this will be GREAT for using steady software to smooth out shaky video and also for downconverting to SD size!

February 15th, 2004, 06:18 PM	#73
Craig Weinstein Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Melbourne, Florida USA Posts: 35	Question: what editing/capturing apparatus would one need to edit 12-bit uncompressed RAW video such as this? Also, will a successful application of this technology on a DVX100 require that sound be recorded separately and synchronized in post? -Craig Weinstein

February 15th, 2004, 06:21 PM	#74
Craig Weinstein Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Melbourne, Florida USA Posts: 35	Additional question: will the 24P Advanced and 30P shooting modes be preserved or will 60i be the only mode available?

February 15th, 2004, 10:24 PM	#75
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : john are you really going to do this? -->>> yea, Obin I plan on it I just dont really know what to do yet, aside from what Jaun has presented. If I had more information as to which chip to jumper I would be well on my way, otherwise its a needle in a haystack. Also what would be the prefered interface for video capture? John __________________ The glory of the World passes by.