4:4:4 12-bit Uncompressed DVX100

Richard Mellor · May 11th, 2004, 09:24 AM

one last link http://www.imperx.com/datasheets/IPX2M30H_Manual.pdf

Obin Olson · May 11th, 2004, 09:47 AM

juan what will the cost of this mod be? do you have even a ballpark idea?

Obin Olson · May 11th, 2004, 09:49 AM

Richard that one only does 33fps...so yes it would work but at 6grand I don't think it is worth it if you can't even get 1/2 speed slo-mo from it

Benjamin Palmer · May 11th, 2004, 10:50 AM

hey folks
the new version of graphic converter will convert the cineon .cin files to whatever you like (tiff sequence, etc.) so you can then open in FCP.
great software, only $35, here: http://www.lemkesoft.de/en/graphdownld_en.htm

Ernest Acosta · May 11th, 2004, 01:02 PM

Great work Juan. I've been reading this thread since you started it. I have suggestions for a name. How about Pert4 Mod or JuaPer4 or JP444 or JP Mod4 or JuanMod4 or Pert Mod4. I like the last two. Any other suggestions?

Obin Olson · May 11th, 2004, 01:18 PM

how fast is it Mr. Palmer?

Randall Larsen · May 11th, 2004, 01:58 PM

Juan,

Keep us posted on your progress with the DVX100 mod. I am also interested in what you think the eventual price of the mod will be with the firewire 800 interface.

I am also interested in a High Def solution as are others on this list. If the DVX100 can be made to provide useable 720p that is great. We also need to look at available alternatives if uprezzing does really work for compositing and effects.

Les and listmembers,

The datasheet I have for the altasen 3560 sensor is a pdf.

You could email me at randall@eye-net.net and I could send it to you or you may contact Doug at Altasens for a mfg. provided copy.

The Dalsa sensors also look interesting to me. They might be difficult to obtain since Dalsa is trying to market their expensive camera. I am still not sure whether I buy Dalsa's argument that a single chip solution is better that a 3 chip solution. There is the problem of the prism optics compatibility with a 35mm M.P. lenses.

One of the advantages of Juan's mod is that it provides 3 chip color in raw form. Perhaps if would be nice to look at Dalsa's
L3 compression or some other lossless compression scheme to
limit the size of the data capture needed but we are quite happy to get 12 bit data in 16 bit tiffs for now.

Benjamin Palmer · May 11th, 2004, 02:50 PM

hey obin
graphic converter is as fast as any batch conversion would be... it's a raw format to raw format, so depends on your processor/disk speed, but it took under a minute to do that batch juan posted, on an 800mhz tibook. there is a demo you can download at the url previously posted

Peter Plevritis · May 11th, 2004, 03:25 PM

Many probably have heard of huffyuv. It's a lossless compression codec. Seems to work. Don't know if it does 10, 12, or 16 bit per channel.

http://www.divx-digest.com/software/huffyuv.html

source code it there also.

Ben Syverson · May 11th, 2004, 04:13 PM

A minute to compress five seconds of material is not exactly mindblowing... then again, the limiting factor might be hard drive speed with files this big.

- b

Peter Plevritis · May 11th, 2004, 06:57 PM

huffyuv. i meant it for sharing large numbers of files, not for capturing.

Juan P. Pertierra · May 11th, 2004, 09:19 PM

I wasn't aware that FCP and photoshop could not open the cineon files...i think i'm just going to upload a zip file with the TIFF frames, and take the cineons down...

Unless anyone has another suggestion i will do that tonight. Can someone check if there is any 10-bit or 12-bit format that is handled by FCP? Maybe the DPX format works?

I'm also going to upload some more frames with film comparisons, and different HD uprezzes to get opinions from all of you on what looks best...that way I can upload the entire clip uprezzed. I was able to get the raw frames VERY close to the 35mm stills.

One thing to note, is that color correction after uprezzing is probably not optimal, so if anyone has any color correction suggestions for the frames let me know so I can apply them before uprezzing.

About the cost, I am working on that now. There are a lot of things i have to consider if I am going to sell this, so as soon as I have a figure i'll put it out there and see if all of this is worth doing.

Juan

Juan P. Pertierra · May 11th, 2004, 11:16 PM

I am uploading the TIFF frames now, will post when it is done.

One thing that we didn't note, the zip compression already takes care of the '0' bits that pad the 10-bits-16bits and so the TIFF zip is the same size as the cineon zip. :)

Juan

Les Dit · May 11th, 2004, 11:17 PM

This is an unfortunate part of the film business, there are no real standards for lossy compression that can do more than 8 bits per channel. My business uses a 12 bit jpeg format internally, but I don't think that any common applications handle this. If a non linear editor like Vegas started supporting >8 bits, it would revolutionize the budget digital intermediate world. If anybody has any new information on this, please pipe up!
-Les

Nick Hiltgen · May 12th, 2004, 01:06 AM

This may be a little off topic but I'm wondering if anyone has a guess as to how much more information would be carried by 3 16x9 SD chips as apposed to the ones in the dvx 100. Would this be something comparable to the 40-50 mbs per second we'd need with juan's mod or significantly more?

May 11th, 2004, 10:50 AM	#604
Benjamin Palmer New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7	use graphic converter to convert .cin files hey folks the new version of graphic converter will convert the cineon .cin files to whatever you like (tiff sequence, etc.) so you can then open in FCP. great software, only $35, here: http://www.lemkesoft.de/en/graphdownld_en.htm __________________ ............................ benjamin palmer president the barbarian group 617.424.7666 332 Newbury St. Boston, MA 02115 www.barbariangroup.com

May 11th, 2004, 01:02 PM	#605
Ernest Acosta Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 59	Great work Juan. I've been reading this thread since you started it. I have suggestions for a name. How about Pert4 Mod or JuaPer4 or JP444 or JP Mod4 or JuanMod4 or Pert Mod4. I like the last two. Any other suggestions? __________________ Ernest L. Acosta, Jr. President Garage At Large Productions P.O. Box 42 Times Square Station New York, NY 10108

May 11th, 2004, 01:58 PM	#607
Randall Larsen Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 54	Juan, Keep us posted on your progress with the DVX100 mod. I am also interested in what you think the eventual price of the mod will be with the firewire 800 interface. I am also interested in a High Def solution as are others on this list. If the DVX100 can be made to provide useable 720p that is great. We also need to look at available alternatives if uprezzing does really work for compositing and effects. Les and listmembers, The datasheet I have for the altasen 3560 sensor is a pdf. You could email me at randall@eye-net.net and I could send it to you or you may contact Doug at Altasens for a mfg. provided copy. The Dalsa sensors also look interesting to me. They might be difficult to obtain since Dalsa is trying to market their expensive camera. I am still not sure whether I buy Dalsa's argument that a single chip solution is better that a 3 chip solution. There is the problem of the prism optics compatibility with a 35mm M.P. lenses. One of the advantages of Juan's mod is that it provides 3 chip color in raw form. Perhaps if would be nice to look at Dalsa's L3 compression or some other lossless compression scheme to limit the size of the data capture needed but we are quite happy to get 12 bit data in 16 bit tiffs for now. __________________ kind regards, Randall Larsen

May 11th, 2004, 11:17 PM	#614
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	> 8 bits per chan. This is an unfortunate part of the film business, there are no real standards for lossy compression that can do more than 8 bits per channel. My business uses a 12 bit jpeg format internally, but I don't think that any common applications handle this. If a non linear editor like Vegas started supporting >8 bits, it would revolutionize the budget digital intermediate world. If anybody has any new information on this, please pipe up! -Les

May 11th, 2004, 09:24 AM	#601
Richard Mellor Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: cambridge ma Posts: 247	one last link http://www.imperx.com/datasheets/IPX2M30H_Manual.pdf

May 11th, 2004, 09:47 AM	#602
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	juan what will the cost of this mod be? do you have even a ballpark idea?

May 11th, 2004, 09:49 AM	#603
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Richard that one only does 33fps...so yes it would work but at 6grand I don't think it is worth it if you can't even get 1/2 speed slo-mo from it

May 11th, 2004, 01:18 PM	#606
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	how fast is it Mr. Palmer?

May 11th, 2004, 02:50 PM	#608
Benjamin Palmer New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7	hey obin graphic converter is as fast as any batch conversion would be... it's a raw format to raw format, so depends on your processor/disk speed, but it took under a minute to do that batch juan posted, on an 800mhz tibook. there is a demo you can download at the url previously posted

May 11th, 2004, 03:25 PM	#609
Peter Plevritis Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 27	Many probably have heard of huffyuv. It's a lossless compression codec. Seems to work. Don't know if it does 10, 12, or 16 bit per channel. http://www.divx-digest.com/software/huffyuv.html source code it there also.

May 11th, 2004, 04:13 PM	#610
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	A minute to compress five seconds of material is not exactly mindblowing... then again, the limiting factor might be hard drive speed with files this big. - b

May 11th, 2004, 06:57 PM	#611
Peter Plevritis Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 27	huffyuv. i meant it for sharing large numbers of files, not for capturing.

May 11th, 2004, 09:19 PM	#612
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	I wasn't aware that FCP and photoshop could not open the cineon files...i think i'm just going to upload a zip file with the TIFF frames, and take the cineons down... Unless anyone has another suggestion i will do that tonight. Can someone check if there is any 10-bit or 12-bit format that is handled by FCP? Maybe the DPX format works? I'm also going to upload some more frames with film comparisons, and different HD uprezzes to get opinions from all of you on what looks best...that way I can upload the entire clip uprezzed. I was able to get the raw frames VERY close to the 35mm stills. One thing to note, is that color correction after uprezzing is probably not optimal, so if anyone has any color correction suggestions for the frames let me know so I can apply them before uprezzing. About the cost, I am working on that now. There are a lot of things i have to consider if I am going to sell this, so as soon as I have a figure i'll put it out there and see if all of this is worth doing. Juan

May 11th, 2004, 11:16 PM	#613
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	I am uploading the TIFF frames now, will post when it is done. One thing that we didn't note, the zip compression already takes care of the '0' bits that pad the 10-bits-16bits and so the TIFF zip is the same size as the cineon zip. :) Juan

May 12th, 2004, 01:06 AM	#615
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	This may be a little off topic but I'm wondering if anyone has a guess as to how much more information would be carried by 3 16x9 SD chips as apposed to the ones in the dvx 100. Would this be something comparable to the 40-50 mbs per second we'd need with juan's mod or significantly more?