4:4:4 12-bit Uncompressed DVX100

Michael Struthers · March 19th, 2004, 04:31 PM

Too late, you'll have to start this experiment over with HDV chips.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...r-03_17_04.htm

Matthew Groff · March 19th, 2004, 08:11 PM

I'm not an owner of DVX100, but I find this thread very interesting. Someone mentioned grabbing their own CCDs , lenses, etc. and building their own camera. Rockwell (I think) is selling their own HD CCDs (actually CMOS image senser) and they will definitely sell prototypes for something like US$550 I believe.

And for other people who are getting excited about this MOD, there will be a camera announced at NAB, an HD camera that reads the raw data off of the sensors directly to a hard disk. It is designed to mimic a film camera's operation (someone finally gets it!) and the signal will be "graded," similar to a DP grading a film with a colorist, in the computer in post. I'm not sure about cost, or when it will be available, but it should be an interesting camera.

mg

Adam Burtle · March 20th, 2004, 01:22 AM

Matthew, at least one other camera (the viper) already exists like that, andprobably a few more. I believe it was mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm really looking forward to attending NAB, and getting a chance to see all sorts of cool new toys i can't afford, haha.

Matthew Groff · March 20th, 2004, 07:31 AM

I know all about the Viper. AFAIK, this camera will operate like a film camera (ie. push to run, push to stop, use manual lens to control focus, exposure, etc.). Also, I don't believe it will be gigantic and unwieldy like the Viper (ie. the hard drive is mounted in like a film mag and swapped out when full, not some tethered monstrosity like what I've seen of the Viper).

mg

Jason Rodriguez · March 20th, 2004, 12:37 PM

You can read about this camera in the last couple of paragraphs here http://millimeter.com/ar/video_roll_own/index.htm.

Obin Olson · March 22nd, 2004, 09:25 AM

guys what about the CMOS chips that can be had from Rockwell for about $500 each? they are being used in the JVC HD box cam NOW and are HD res.....

check this
http://www.rsc.rockwell.com/procam/

I would think this is the way to go ...why not make our own cameras?

Juan P. Pertierra · March 22nd, 2004, 11:42 AM

Here's the thing about that:

I am unsure whether this setup will be worth it with a color CCD like the JVC uses, instead of 3-CCD's. This is because in a mosaic pattern, adjacent pixels are combined to approximate the color of the center pixel, so there is a PHYSICAL approximation of color going on, which is why going 4:1:1 or even 4:1:0 is not that bad.

When doing 3-ccd's which are all monochrome, there is precious information in each pixel, and doing 4:1:1 quantization looses quite a bit of information.

What is the semiconductor site for these CCD's? I'll check...the main points are that the chip needs to be progressive, monochrome and read fast enough to do 30 OR 24fps.

Remember also that another problem is the optical front end...where do we get prism assemblies for 3-way beam splitting?

Juan

Obin Olson · March 22nd, 2004, 11:56 AM

I would say your best bet is to keep plugging away at your dvx100 mod and forget all else...we are willing to pay you MONEY for your mod NOW

Juan P. Pertierra · March 22nd, 2004, 12:04 PM

oh don't worry about that :) I got back sunday noon after 24 straight hours of driving from Miami, and then i had to work until 5pm, so i was 'out of order', but work continues as soon as i get back from work today.

John Gaspain · March 22nd, 2004, 12:48 PM

idea. hmmm....put a rockwell ProCamHD CCD into an old Arri type 35mm film camera!

Juan P. Pertierra · March 22nd, 2004, 01:58 PM

This would cost soooooo much. I think the point here is that there are great cameras out there, they are just way to expensive....the point here is to look for a cost-effective solution and get the highest quality possible.

Juan P. Pertierra · March 22nd, 2004, 02:03 PM

Whoa, never mind, i've been thinking about the wrong JVC camera! I looked at the site and these are clearly monochrome CMOS sensors. I am going to inquire about pricing, maybe there is something here.

Probably, however, they will NOT sell a small amount to an individual for anything less than thousands of dollars.

Juan

Rodger Marjama · March 22nd, 2004, 03:03 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Juan P. Pertierra : Whoa, never mind, i've been thinking about the wrong JVC camera! I looked at the site and these are clearly monochrome CMOS sensors. I am going to inquire about pricing, maybe there is something here.

Probably, however, they will NOT sell a small amount to an individual for anything less than thousands of dollars.

Juan -->>>

Don't be to sure about that. Especially if you can convince someone it's in their best interest to keep prices at some point where you will choose to look at there CCD's further. It could also help if they understood you may represent a large number of people who are interested in your current work on the DVX.

BTW - Toward the bottom of that linked page, they offer a single CCD for testing setup to interface board for the PC. I suppose you've already noticed though.

-Rodger

Obin Olson · March 22nd, 2004, 03:53 PM

yes like I said $500 each

Adam Burtle · March 24th, 2004, 12:16 PM

I dont know how it will help.. but i'll be attending NAB, if you need me to stop by the booth of those Rockwell people (who make the procam HD chips) to talk to them, take pics/video, etc.. just let me know.

I dont know how easy it would be to interface something like that to an existing camera setup.. but if you have the technical knowhow that would really empower dv filmmaking on a budget, heh

March 19th, 2004, 04:31 PM	#166
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Too late, you'll have to start this experiment over with HDV chips. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...r-03_17_04.htm __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

March 22nd, 2004, 12:48 PM	#175
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	idea. hmmm....put a rockwell ProCamHD CCD into an old Arri type 35mm film camera! __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

March 22nd, 2004, 03:03 PM	#178
Rodger Marjama Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 101	<<<-- Originally posted by Juan P. Pertierra : Whoa, never mind, i've been thinking about the wrong JVC camera! I looked at the site and these are clearly monochrome CMOS sensors. I am going to inquire about pricing, maybe there is something here. Probably, however, they will NOT sell a small amount to an individual for anything less than thousands of dollars. Juan -->>> Don't be to sure about that. Especially if you can convince someone it's in their best interest to keep prices at some point where you will choose to look at there CCD's further. It could also help if they understood you may represent a large number of people who are interested in your current work on the DVX. BTW - Toward the bottom of that linked page, they offer a single CCD for testing setup to interface board for the PC. I suppose you've already noticed though. -Rodger __________________ Rodger Marjama www.speedwing.net

March 19th, 2004, 08:11 PM	#167
Matthew Groff Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 132	I'm not an owner of DVX100, but I find this thread very interesting. Someone mentioned grabbing their own CCDs , lenses, etc. and building their own camera. Rockwell (I think) is selling their own HD CCDs (actually CMOS image senser) and they will definitely sell prototypes for something like US$550 I believe. And for other people who are getting excited about this MOD, there will be a camera announced at NAB, an HD camera that reads the raw data off of the sensors directly to a hard disk. It is designed to mimic a film camera's operation (someone finally gets it!) and the signal will be "graded," similar to a DP grading a film with a colorist, in the computer in post. I'm not sure about cost, or when it will be available, but it should be an interesting camera. mg

March 20th, 2004, 01:22 AM	#168
Adam Burtle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 173	Matthew, at least one other camera (the viper) already exists like that, andprobably a few more. I believe it was mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm really looking forward to attending NAB, and getting a chance to see all sorts of cool new toys i can't afford, haha.

March 20th, 2004, 07:31 AM	#169
Matthew Groff Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 132	I know all about the Viper. AFAIK, this camera will operate like a film camera (ie. push to run, push to stop, use manual lens to control focus, exposure, etc.). Also, I don't believe it will be gigantic and unwieldy like the Viper (ie. the hard drive is mounted in like a film mag and swapped out when full, not some tethered monstrosity like what I've seen of the Viper). mg

March 20th, 2004, 12:37 PM	#170
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	You can read about this camera in the last couple of paragraphs here http://millimeter.com/ar/video_roll_own/index.htm.

March 22nd, 2004, 09:25 AM	#171
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	guys what about the CMOS chips that can be had from Rockwell for about $500 each? they are being used in the JVC HD box cam NOW and are HD res..... check this http://www.rsc.rockwell.com/procam/ I would think this is the way to go ...why not make our own cameras?

March 22nd, 2004, 11:42 AM	#172
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	Here's the thing about that: I am unsure whether this setup will be worth it with a color CCD like the JVC uses, instead of 3-CCD's. This is because in a mosaic pattern, adjacent pixels are combined to approximate the color of the center pixel, so there is a PHYSICAL approximation of color going on, which is why going 4:1:1 or even 4:1:0 is not that bad. When doing 3-ccd's which are all monochrome, there is precious information in each pixel, and doing 4:1:1 quantization looses quite a bit of information. What is the semiconductor site for these CCD's? I'll check...the main points are that the chip needs to be progressive, monochrome and read fast enough to do 30 OR 24fps. Remember also that another problem is the optical front end...where do we get prism assemblies for 3-way beam splitting? Juan

March 22nd, 2004, 11:56 AM	#173
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	I would say your best bet is to keep plugging away at your dvx100 mod and forget all else...we are willing to pay you MONEY for your mod NOW

March 22nd, 2004, 12:04 PM	#174
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	oh don't worry about that :) I got back sunday noon after 24 straight hours of driving from Miami, and then i had to work until 5pm, so i was 'out of order', but work continues as soon as i get back from work today.

March 22nd, 2004, 01:58 PM	#176
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	This would cost soooooo much. I think the point here is that there are great cameras out there, they are just way to expensive....the point here is to look for a cost-effective solution and get the highest quality possible.

March 22nd, 2004, 02:03 PM	#177
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	Whoa, never mind, i've been thinking about the wrong JVC camera! I looked at the site and these are clearly monochrome CMOS sensors. I am going to inquire about pricing, maybe there is something here. Probably, however, they will NOT sell a small amount to an individual for anything less than thousands of dollars. Juan

March 22nd, 2004, 03:53 PM	#179
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	yes like I said $500 each

March 24th, 2004, 12:16 PM	#180
Adam Burtle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 173	I dont know how it will help.. but i'll be attending NAB, if you need me to stop by the booth of those Rockwell people (who make the procam HD chips) to talk to them, take pics/video, etc.. just let me know. I dont know how easy it would be to interface something like that to an existing camera setup.. but if you have the technical knowhow that would really empower dv filmmaking on a budget, heh