Homemade 35mm -- Edited Copy for Reading

Corey Smith · December 22nd, 2003, 03:31 AM

Plastic Sheeting. It's real cheap. 3-4 layers should be enough. Works pretty good. It doesn't need to be rotated, because it's not all scratched up. I'm not sure how it compares to the CD though. I will see if I can get some photos or videos up later. I'm still having some vignetting issues.

Bob Hart · December 22nd, 2003, 03:34 AM

If people want to go the non-moving groundglass route, then medium format objective lenses onto a larger fixed forsted glass might be the way to go., ie., bigger format bigger groundglass, smaller grain defects across the image.

It may be feasable to use the whole of a secondhand medium format camera or modify it to mount the small camcorder.

Jim Lafferty · December 22nd, 2003, 12:27 PM

Charles:

I've got pics up but they're hardly conclusive:

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/front.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/rear.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motor.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/assembled.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motordetail.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/sanded.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finished.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedmount.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedrear.jpg

I will have tutorial up by the second week of January.

- jim

Devin Doyle · December 22nd, 2003, 02:34 PM

To those who have completed their systems: what type/power macro lenses do you use? I know some have used the macro portion of their WA adapters, but some must be using regular macro/close-up filters. What power are you using? Can you zoom through these a bit and still pull focus on the projected image? Since this is the only portion of the project that involves purchasing a legitimate piece of equipment I'd like to be well informed about what works. I'd like this thing to be as compact as possible. Thanks!

Daniel Moloko · December 22nd, 2003, 05:39 PM

hello people.!

Vendi, you are wrong about NO GROUND GLASS that provides a good static solution.

I went to a used photo cam store and i found a cam by ZENITH that has a GROUND GLASS with a DIFUSING (fresnel?, im a brazilian, here we call it `lente difusora`)

lens attached behind it!

man, IT REALLY WORKS >expletive removed< GREAT

the GG was made 40 years ago. is perfect, besides only a scratch that i dont notice everytime.

and the grain is very little, it only adds a more film look aspect.

no vignette, no nothing, cause the DIFUSING LENS behind it just EXPAND the lens image to the WHOLE GROUND GLASS!!

if you tell me where to send the video i made (without the things adapted to a box), i will upload right now.

CIAO

Louis Feng · December 22nd, 2003, 06:08 PM

"the grain is very little, it only adds a more film look aspect."

I said that no GG will work for high quality. You saw the grain, and I know exactly what you saw.

To me it only produces ok results. Try move the camera and have objects move in front of it, also try different light angles. The grain is certainly not film like, the grains are static, makes it look like it's shooting behind a glass (which is true).

If you scale your video to smaller size, this works fine, because the grain will be averaged out and not as visible. But for real things like DVD, or indy film, higher quality is needed. But again, Super fine GG will produce ok results, just not great. If you think it's good enough, then it's good enough.

If you want to produce an upright image, take a look at my design, better yet, improve it.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18690

Filip Kovcin · December 22nd, 2003, 06:16 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : ...AH, the man who selled me, said that its almost impossible to find one of those these days!!!!
i bought it for 10$ .

NONE of others photo cams ground glasses is the same CLEAN as this one. -->>>

daniel,

i didn't tried it yet, but here in poland you can find TONS of that ZENIT (wthout "H") - if this is the same producer - this was USSR 35mm still camera. Are we are talking about the same thing? What camera (type/model) you have?

if you find it interesting - (the zenit ground glass) - i can check here and there and maybe send it where needed. i'm sure that you can find here zenit in proper working condition - the whole photo camera (WITH the lens) for 15-20$ max (which means that theoretically GG will cost much, much less).

so, if yo buy the whole camera - you can use the GG and experiment with the rest - the lens, maybe also pentaprism - who knows. but i'm not sure about packing and transport fees...
anyhow - at least you can try.
is it possible to find somewhere your tests with that ZENIT GG?

filip

Taylor Moore · December 22nd, 2003, 07:25 PM

Video from Daniel Moloko

Here is Daniels link
www.moorefilms.com/daniel.htm

Daniel Moloko · December 22nd, 2003, 07:54 PM

about the test:

it was just for you people to take a look at the ground glass.

and i just put it on the front of the lens i got. it doesnt grain.

anyway, i think its better than the AGUS rotating project cause the fresnel attached just does everything i need - no vignetting.

and if u think it is still graining, i say that it may be graining, but just as much as the spinning frosted CD.

Peter Sciretta · December 22nd, 2003, 09:13 PM

Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?

Danny Tan · December 22nd, 2003, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?

i think it would be awesome if it didn't move. then you woudnt need that big ugly cd spindle+motor. but, can some1 take a pic of their ground glass? i used 400 gritt and cannot see clearly through it so i am wondering how the camera would get a clear picture?

Von Criswell · December 22nd, 2003, 09:18 PM

Might be of some help:

http://lists.kjsl.com/pipermail/acg/...er/000639.html

Someone talking about ground glass and substitutes he has tried (for making cameras).

Quote:

"I have used frosted acrylic film purchase in a tablet of about 25 sheets from an art supply store. This is intended for Ink Drawing and is frosted on one side only. It produces excellent images. It is available in different thickness. I happened to like 0.005" inch thick. In-fact I will be using the thicker sheets and plain clear-glass to replace the view-screen on a TLR I have been completely restoring. The plain glass will be on the outside to allow durability."

I haven't tried this as I am still waiting for a few parts, however, it may be a viable alternative to the sanding.

Best,
Von

Louis Feng · December 22nd, 2003, 09:27 PM

"Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?"

There are materials beyond ground glass and spinning cds. Don't be hasty, I have something in mind and as far as I can tell, it would be perfect for this application. But it's not something you can find in Walmart.

"i used 400 gritt and cannot see clearly through it"

400 grit? You'll see something better when it's over 1000 grit, and don't use sand papers, they only mess things up. Use these aluminium oxide dusts. But I can tell you that I have tried and it only gives ok result. For high quality, you need something more special.

Don Berube · December 22nd, 2003, 09:46 PM

For what it is worth, you may find the following Optics FAQ handy:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/TechSupport/optics.cfm

Optics:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Browse.cfm?catid=10

Fresnel Lenses:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...Productid=2039

this looks very familiar
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1966

T-Mount Adaptors (hmmmm...):
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1460

More Lens Adaptors:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1459

Video Lenses?:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/Catalog/Custom/218.cfm

Cool!!!:
http://www.nightowloptics.com/addfra...product=NOCA42

- don

Zac Stein · December 22nd, 2003, 11:02 PM

I don't understand why a concave lense just can't be used.

An optomistrist could make one, the quality would be excellent, it would cause no distortion and of course would totally invert the image. These types of things could be places just behind the lens mount, flip the image and bang directly onto the ground glass. Suddenly you would have a very small device.

Zac

December 22nd, 2003, 03:31 AM	#301
Corey Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hot Springs, AR Posts: 31	It's called... Plastic Sheeting. It's real cheap. 3-4 layers should be enough. Works pretty good. It doesn't need to be rotated, because it's not all scratched up. I'm not sure how it compares to the CD though. I will see if I can get some photos or videos up later. I'm still having some vignetting issues.

December 22nd, 2003, 12:27 PM	#303
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Charles: I've got pics up but they're hardly conclusive: http://ideaspora.net/agus35/front.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/rear.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motor.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/assembled.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motordetail.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/sanded.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finished.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedmount.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedrear.jpg I will have tutorial up by the second week of January. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

December 22nd, 2003, 02:34 PM	#304
Devin Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 188	To those who have completed their systems: what type/power macro lenses do you use? I know some have used the macro portion of their WA adapters, but some must be using regular macro/close-up filters. What power are you using? Can you zoom through these a bit and still pull focus on the projected image? Since this is the only portion of the project that involves purchasing a legitimate piece of equipment I'd like to be well informed about what works. I'd like this thing to be as compact as possible. Thanks! __________________ http://devin.par-t-com.net

December 22nd, 2003, 05:39 PM	#305
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	gg from zenith 50`s hello people.! Vendi, you are wrong about NO GROUND GLASS that provides a good static solution. I went to a used photo cam store and i found a cam by ZENITH that has a GROUND GLASS with a DIFUSING (fresnel?, im a brazilian, here we call it `lente difusora`) lens attached behind it! man, IT REALLY WORKS >expletive removed< GREAT the GG was made 40 years ago. is perfect, besides only a scratch that i dont notice everytime. and the grain is very little, it only adds a more film look aspect. no vignette, no nothing, cause the DIFUSING LENS behind it just EXPAND the lens image to the WHOLE GROUND GLASS!! if you tell me where to send the video i made (without the things adapted to a box), i will upload right now. CIAO

December 22nd, 2003, 06:16 PM	#307
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	Re: ZENITH GROUND GLASS <<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : ...AH, the man who selled me, said that its almost impossible to find one of those these days!!!! i bought it for 10$ . NONE of others photo cams ground glasses is the same CLEAN as this one. -->>> daniel, i didn't tried it yet, but here in poland you can find TONS of that ZENIT (wthout "H") - if this is the same producer - this was USSR 35mm still camera. Are we are talking about the same thing? What camera (type/model) you have? if you find it interesting - (the zenit ground glass) - i can check here and there and maybe send it where needed. i'm sure that you can find here zenit in proper working condition - the whole photo camera (WITH the lens) for 15-20$ max (which means that theoretically GG will cost much, much less). so, if yo buy the whole camera - you can use the GG and experiment with the rest - the lens, maybe also pentaprism - who knows. but i'm not sure about packing and transport fees... anyhow - at least you can try. is it possible to find somewhere your tests with that ZENIT GG? filip

December 22nd, 2003, 03:34 AM	#302
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	If people want to go the non-moving groundglass route, then medium format objective lenses onto a larger fixed forsted glass might be the way to go., ie., bigger format bigger groundglass, smaller grain defects across the image. It may be feasable to use the whole of a secondhand medium format camera or modify it to mount the small camcorder.

December 22nd, 2003, 06:08 PM	#306
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	"the grain is very little, it only adds a more film look aspect." I said that no GG will work for high quality. You saw the grain, and I know exactly what you saw. To me it only produces ok results. Try move the camera and have objects move in front of it, also try different light angles. The grain is certainly not film like, the grains are static, makes it look like it's shooting behind a glass (which is true). If you scale your video to smaller size, this works fine, because the grain will be averaged out and not as visible. But for real things like DVD, or indy film, higher quality is needed. But again, Super fine GG will produce ok results, just not great. If you think it's good enough, then it's good enough. If you want to produce an upright image, take a look at my design, better yet, improve it. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18690

December 22nd, 2003, 07:25 PM	#308
Taylor Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 94	Video from Daniel Moloko Here is Daniels link www.moorefilms.com/daniel.htm

December 22nd, 2003, 07:54 PM	#309
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	about the teste about the test: it was just for you people to take a look at the ground glass. and i just put it on the front of the lens i got. it doesnt grain. anyway, i think its better than the AGUS rotating project cause the fresnel attached just does everything i need - no vignetting. and if u think it is still graining, i say that it may be graining, but just as much as the spinning frosted CD.

December 22nd, 2003, 09:13 PM	#310
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?

December 22nd, 2003, 09:18 PM	#312
Von Criswell Tourist Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 2	ground glass substitues Might be of some help: http://lists.kjsl.com/pipermail/acg/...er/000639.html Someone talking about ground glass and substitutes he has tried (for making cameras). Quote: "I have used frosted acrylic film purchase in a tablet of about 25 sheets from an art supply store. This is intended for Ink Drawing and is frosted on one side only. It produces excellent images. It is available in different thickness. I happened to like 0.005" inch thick. In-fact I will be using the thicker sheets and plain clear-glass to replace the view-screen on a TLR I have been completely restoring. The plain glass will be on the outside to allow durability." I haven't tried this as I am still waiting for a few parts, however, it may be a viable alternative to the sanding. Best, Von

December 22nd, 2003, 09:27 PM	#313
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	"Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?" There are materials beyond ground glass and spinning cds. Don't be hasty, I have something in mind and as far as I can tell, it would be perfect for this application. But it's not something you can find in Walmart. "i used 400 gritt and cannot see clearly through it" 400 grit? You'll see something better when it's over 1000 grit, and don't use sand papers, they only mess things up. Use these aluminium oxide dusts. But I can tell you that I have tried and it only gives ok result. For high quality, you need something more special.

December 22nd, 2003, 09:46 PM	#314
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	For what it is worth, you may find the following Optics FAQ handy: http://www.edmundoptics.com/TechSupport/optics.cfm Optics: http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Browse.cfm?catid=10 Fresnel Lenses: http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...Productid=2039 this looks very familiar http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1966 T-Mount Adaptors (hmmmm...): http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1460 More Lens Adaptors: http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1459 Video Lenses?: http://www.edmundoptics.com/Catalog/Custom/218.cfm Cool!!!: http://www.nightowloptics.com/addfra...product=NOCA42 - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

December 22nd, 2003, 11:02 PM	#315
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	I don't understand why a concave lense just can't be used. An optomistrist could make one, the quality would be excellent, it would cause no distortion and of course would totally invert the image. These types of things could be places just behind the lens mount, flip the image and bang directly onto the ground glass. Suddenly you would have a very small device. Zac