Homemade 35mm -- Edited Copy for Reading

Agus Casse · December 15th, 2003, 02:58 AM

Jim Lafferty · December 15th, 2003, 11:48 AM

Agus,

Two questions: How did you attach your GG to the spindle? That's an awfully large hole to close... How did you keep it perfectly parallel to the lenses?

I'm redesigning mine. Pics up shortly.

- jim

Noah Posnick · December 15th, 2003, 03:58 PM

I've just dismantled an old cd player and taken out the motor, but my queston is where do i put the wires??? i cant seem to get it to run

J. Clayton Stansberry · December 15th, 2003, 06:05 PM

Noah,

Cut the positive and negative wires leading to the motor (red and black) and make sure you leave the wires long enough. Then, you need to connect them to a switch or directly to a battery pack (both can be purchased at Radio Shack). The battery pack will also have red and black wires, connect those together. For the switch, connect the two red wires to the switch, then the black ones together (I think). They also have a switch that allows for connecting the negatives to it. Hope that explains it.

Clay

Stewart McDonald · December 16th, 2003, 05:12 AM

Almost got the full package now. Got some fresnel lenses this morning. Can't wait to give this bad boy a try.

Anyone know if its safe to run a CD motor from a 9v battery?

And is the fresnel lens purpose to increase the image size that is projected onto the cd?

Thanks

Peter Sciretta · December 16th, 2003, 06:45 AM

the cd motor runs to fast in my opinion with 2 AAA batteries which is like 3 volts... so to answer your question on the 9 volt battery, its a negative. 1 triple A would probably the best case but not the easiest to pull off... 2 AAA is probably worth settling for

Peter Sciretta · December 16th, 2003, 06:53 AM

what people refuse to understand is that a normal macro adapter DOES NOT work. What most people are using is a cheap wide angle lens made for the smaller cameras. if you rip the lens off it has a special macro magnify lens inside that works. However for people like me and you who own a prosumer camera with a 58mm attachment this sucks because all we can do is put the smaller wide angle adapter on the camera and zooom in so that we don't see the ring from the adapter. This causes some zoom issues, as when you have the adapter working you are zoomed in a bit and when you move the camera it then reacts like a camera that is zoomed in a bit. And if you have ever tried to move a camera while zoomed in you know the remendous shake and control issues. I have been to numerous camera stores and explained that i needed such a lens for a 58mm camera and they say no such lens exists... it would have to be made special order and we're not even going to discuss how much a special order lens would cost to be made.

The problem lies in that the macro lens is not made to be zoomed into and you need to zoom a little to get rid of the black edge areas on the Ground glass projection.

I am thinking the magnifying glass (fresnal) plastic sheet people in this threat have bought from wallgreens will solve the problem and for only 5 bucks... I have bought one but my working 35mm adapter i no longer together... but it appears like it should do the job. If I am wrong please correct me.

Jim Lafferty · December 16th, 2003, 08:04 AM

Century Optics makes a $210 +7 macro (they call it an "achromatic diopter") fitted for the 58mm threading of the GL1/GL2. There is also a cheaper version -- $70 -- a larger version of the kind of lens Agus is using, on eBay.

I have and can report good experiences with the Century Optics lens.

I'm also of the opinion that a CD motor will not work -- it doesn't spin at a high enough rate.

- jim

Peter Sciretta · December 16th, 2003, 08:28 AM

Jim -

I was told by more than 2 camera stores that the century would not do what we are looking for it to do...

and what are your experiences with the cd motor which make you think it is not fast enough?

Please share!

Jim Lafferty · December 16th, 2003, 08:56 AM

Well, I called Century and spoke to a woman who seemed very informed about their lenses. This was before I bought it, mind you, though now having had it for a few days I can assure you that with the achromatic diopter rated +7, you will be able to place your camera within inches of the source of focus and zoom to fill frame. In fact, the higher the rating of the diopter's power, the closer you HAVE TO keep your DV cam to your target image. +2 lets you get about a foot out; +7 forces you to close the ditance to under 4 inches.

I put together a quick-n-dirty Agus35 last week, housed in a Radio Shack project box and it failed for more than one reason. I suspect that its largest failing was in spinning the disc at a high enough rate as to maintain a satisfactory image. What I got at the time was footage that looked to have been heavily gaussian blurred, with foreground details surrounded by a halo of fuzz, and background details falling off into a mess of noise.

Yesterday, I started a new design, based around Agus's latest pics, which give some insight into his success:

1) He uses a motor with high rotation
2) He's got everything about the adapter placed within inches of the DV camera's lens, which I imagine helps to maintain a high degree of the original image.
3) He said that his GG was sanded with 600 grit, originally, but now reveals that he would have preferred 1000 grit or higher.

With that said, here's the progress of my new Agus35:

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/front.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/rear.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motor.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/assembled.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motordetail.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/sanded.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finished.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedmount.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedrear.jpg

Bob Hart · December 16th, 2003, 09:31 AM

Computerwise, I am a technical luddite and have not the knowing of some probably simple things.

If someone can tell me how and where to upload a .pdf or turbocad .tcw file which can then be found here, I will put up a diagram of an adaptor for PD150/VX2000, which contains two telescope eyepiece lenses I put together to aquire and frame within an 18mm diameter circular intensifier tube display.

This is too small for the Agus35 and will only demonstrate a principle. As a zoom-through device it works fine with the PD150 and requires only a minor camcorder refocus for different zoom settings.

It required low to average hobby level machining skill to build on a small Taiwanese lathe taking about six hours.

Alternative lenses of a lower magnification might be available as trade parts for some other application and might be usable in an altered arrangement of my adaptor.

Agus Casse · December 16th, 2003, 01:17 PM

Hey guys, how is it going... i am seeing plenty of Agus35 adapters being built lately, and that make me really proud :) !!!

OK, for the ones that are using the CD motor, it is awesome it locks up perfectly with zero vibration, also those fakes cds that comes sanded from factory are also 100% perfect.

Currently i am solving the problem that soon you will be into, that is how to put the adapter into the camera, and actually work with it. so i am making a support base, using only electric lamps parts, that cost almost nothing.

Now, i am working really hard now to make a comercial version, which will cost less than 1k, complete with support base, metal rods, and the image will come up perfectly, it wont be necesary to flip it up. Also, this new adapter, will be hermetic, so no dust will ruin the image (problem that we dont have cause there are no mirrors and the GG is spining always. Then let me tell ya, that we are planning to build it for small size cams, like my TRV18 to the GL2, we dont want to make it to the XLS1, cause its lens is too big and we actually dont have one :)...

DVX100 seens like a problem too, cause of the size of the lens, SO, i will need soon any volunteer that can give us the size of the lens diameter (not the lens size, but the whole thing) so we can calculate how to make most cameras to fit to the new adapter.

So, we need only the Size and model of camera, please send an email to agus@altoque.tv, send your name, cause it will be saved then in case you want our adapter and will make a special price !!!

Ok, hope all the adapters that you are building works like mine, cause it is GREAT !!!!! and soon you will have an option to buy a comercial version (make of steel and good plastic) which will flip the image, and make no vigneting and will be all calibrated so there will be no distorsion of the image.

Peter Sciretta · December 17th, 2003, 06:37 AM

John - can't wait to see some footage...

Agus - what brand cds did you find the "allready frosted cds" in???? A bunch of people have tried asking you this question a couple times... and you have yet to answer... I have gone through

fujifilm - 30 pack (1gg disc) bought at radio shack

philips - 30 pack (1gg disc) bought at Best Buy, was cheap and came in a 50 spindal case.

Unknown Brand 100 pack $20 at best buy included 4 gg discs

But none have been pre frosted... so what brand are you finding these gems in?

Peter Sciretta · December 17th, 2003, 07:01 AM

I just sanded a cd with 600 grit paper (I used 300 before on a previous cd) and no matter how much I sand the cd with the 600 grit the image projected is not as good as the 300 grit... what am i doing wrong?

Terry Wright · December 17th, 2003, 07:40 AM

Hi Guys

I've just been to a glaziers and asked about having the fake cd made out of glass and was told that it could be made out of 4mm Satin glass. It will cost about £6 to have it made.

I asked if it could be made about 1-2mm and was told that it wasn't possible to cut glass any shallower than 4mm.

Does anyone know if this type of glass would work?

Regards

Terry

December 15th, 2003, 11:48 AM	#212
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Agus, Two questions: How did you attach your GG to the spindle? That's an awfully large hole to close... How did you keep it perfectly parallel to the lenses? I'm redesigning mine. Pics up shortly. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

December 15th, 2003, 03:58 PM	#213
Noah Posnick Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 64	I've just dismantled an old cd player and taken out the motor, but my queston is where do i put the wires??? i cant seem to get it to run __________________ Noah Posnick http://www.posnick.com

December 15th, 2003, 06:05 PM	#214
J. Clayton Stansberry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	Noah, Cut the positive and negative wires leading to the motor (red and black) and make sure you leave the wires long enough. Then, you need to connect them to a switch or directly to a battery pack (both can be purchased at Radio Shack). The battery pack will also have red and black wires, connect those together. For the switch, connect the two red wires to the switch, then the black ones together (I think). They also have a switch that allows for connecting the negatives to it. Hope that explains it. Clay __________________ I understand everything about nothing.

December 16th, 2003, 08:04 AM	#218
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Century Optics makes a $210 +7 macro (they call it an "achromatic diopter") fitted for the 58mm threading of the GL1/GL2. There is also a cheaper version -- $70 -- a larger version of the kind of lens Agus is using, on eBay. I have and can report good experiences with the Century Optics lens. I'm also of the opinion that a CD motor will not work -- it doesn't spin at a high enough rate. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

December 16th, 2003, 08:56 AM	#220
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Well, I called Century and spoke to a woman who seemed very informed about their lenses. This was before I bought it, mind you, though now having had it for a few days I can assure you that with the achromatic diopter rated +7, you will be able to place your camera within inches of the source of focus and zoom to fill frame. In fact, the higher the rating of the diopter's power, the closer you HAVE TO keep your DV cam to your target image. +2 lets you get about a foot out; +7 forces you to close the ditance to under 4 inches. I put together a quick-n-dirty Agus35 last week, housed in a Radio Shack project box and it failed for more than one reason. I suspect that its largest failing was in spinning the disc at a high enough rate as to maintain a satisfactory image. What I got at the time was footage that looked to have been heavily gaussian blurred, with foreground details surrounded by a halo of fuzz, and background details falling off into a mess of noise. Yesterday, I started a new design, based around Agus's latest pics, which give some insight into his success: 1) He uses a motor with high rotation 2) He's got everything about the adapter placed within inches of the DV camera's lens, which I imagine helps to maintain a high degree of the original image. 3) He said that his GG was sanded with 600 grit, originally, but now reveals that he would have preferred 1000 grit or higher. With that said, here's the progress of my new Agus35: http://ideaspora.net/agus35/front.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/rear.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motor.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/assembled.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motordetail.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/sanded.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finished.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedmount.jpg http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedrear.jpg __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

December 15th, 2003, 02:58 AM	#211
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	Have anyone even tried to put the fresnel before the GG ? i havent have any success, so i put it after it using a magnifying lens. Ok, here are some new pics of the adapter. http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter01.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter02.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter03.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter04.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter05.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter06.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter07.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter08.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter09.jpg http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter13.jpg BTW... tom, let me tell you that you need to close that box, or the outside light will ruin the image, you need to make a camera obscura, and all the GG have to be covered... (no peeking !)

December 16th, 2003, 05:12 AM	#215
Stewart McDonald Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 130	Almost got the full package now. Got some fresnel lenses this morning. Can't wait to give this bad boy a try. Anyone know if its safe to run a CD motor from a 9v battery? And is the fresnel lens purpose to increase the image size that is projected onto the cd? Thanks

December 16th, 2003, 06:45 AM	#216
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	the cd motor runs to fast in my opinion with 2 AAA batteries which is like 3 volts... so to answer your question on the 9 volt battery, its a negative. 1 triple A would probably the best case but not the easiest to pull off... 2 AAA is probably worth settling for

December 16th, 2003, 06:53 AM	#217
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	what people refuse to understand is that a normal macro adapter DOES NOT work. What most people are using is a cheap wide angle lens made for the smaller cameras. if you rip the lens off it has a special macro magnify lens inside that works. However for people like me and you who own a prosumer camera with a 58mm attachment this sucks because all we can do is put the smaller wide angle adapter on the camera and zooom in so that we don't see the ring from the adapter. This causes some zoom issues, as when you have the adapter working you are zoomed in a bit and when you move the camera it then reacts like a camera that is zoomed in a bit. And if you have ever tried to move a camera while zoomed in you know the remendous shake and control issues. I have been to numerous camera stores and explained that i needed such a lens for a 58mm camera and they say no such lens exists... it would have to be made special order and we're not even going to discuss how much a special order lens would cost to be made. The problem lies in that the macro lens is not made to be zoomed into and you need to zoom a little to get rid of the black edge areas on the Ground glass projection. I am thinking the magnifying glass (fresnal) plastic sheet people in this threat have bought from wallgreens will solve the problem and for only 5 bucks... I have bought one but my working 35mm adapter i no longer together... but it appears like it should do the job. If I am wrong please correct me.

December 16th, 2003, 08:28 AM	#219
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	Jim - I was told by more than 2 camera stores that the century would not do what we are looking for it to do... and what are your experiences with the cd motor which make you think it is not fast enough? Please share!

December 16th, 2003, 09:31 AM	#221
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Computerwise, I am a technical luddite and have not the knowing of some probably simple things. If someone can tell me how and where to upload a .pdf or turbocad .tcw file which can then be found here, I will put up a diagram of an adaptor for PD150/VX2000, which contains two telescope eyepiece lenses I put together to aquire and frame within an 18mm diameter circular intensifier tube display. This is too small for the Agus35 and will only demonstrate a principle. As a zoom-through device it works fine with the PD150 and requires only a minor camcorder refocus for different zoom settings. It required low to average hobby level machining skill to build on a small Taiwanese lathe taking about six hours. Alternative lenses of a lower magnification might be available as trade parts for some other application and might be usable in an altered arrangement of my adaptor.

December 16th, 2003, 01:17 PM	#222
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	Hey guys, how is it going... i am seeing plenty of Agus35 adapters being built lately, and that make me really proud :) !!! OK, for the ones that are using the CD motor, it is awesome it locks up perfectly with zero vibration, also those fakes cds that comes sanded from factory are also 100% perfect. Currently i am solving the problem that soon you will be into, that is how to put the adapter into the camera, and actually work with it. so i am making a support base, using only electric lamps parts, that cost almost nothing. Now, i am working really hard now to make a comercial version, which will cost less than 1k, complete with support base, metal rods, and the image will come up perfectly, it wont be necesary to flip it up. Also, this new adapter, will be hermetic, so no dust will ruin the image (problem that we dont have cause there are no mirrors and the GG is spining always. Then let me tell ya, that we are planning to build it for small size cams, like my TRV18 to the GL2, we dont want to make it to the XLS1, cause its lens is too big and we actually dont have one :)... DVX100 seens like a problem too, cause of the size of the lens, SO, i will need soon any volunteer that can give us the size of the lens diameter (not the lens size, but the whole thing) so we can calculate how to make most cameras to fit to the new adapter. So, we need only the Size and model of camera, please send an email to agus@altoque.tv, send your name, cause it will be saved then in case you want our adapter and will make a special price !!! Ok, hope all the adapters that you are building works like mine, cause it is GREAT !!!!! and soon you will have an option to buy a comercial version (make of steel and good plastic) which will flip the image, and make no vigneting and will be all calibrated so there will be no distorsion of the image.

December 17th, 2003, 06:37 AM	#223
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	John - can't wait to see some footage... Agus - what brand cds did you find the "allready frosted cds" in???? A bunch of people have tried asking you this question a couple times... and you have yet to answer... I have gone through fujifilm - 30 pack (1gg disc) bought at radio shack philips - 30 pack (1gg disc) bought at Best Buy, was cheap and came in a 50 spindal case. Unknown Brand 100 pack $20 at best buy included 4 gg discs But none have been pre frosted... so what brand are you finding these gems in?

December 17th, 2003, 07:01 AM	#224
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	I just sanded a cd with 600 grit paper (I used 300 before on a previous cd) and no matter how much I sand the cd with the 600 grit the image projected is not as good as the 300 grit... what am i doing wrong?

December 17th, 2003, 07:40 AM	#225
Terry Wright New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 10	Hi Guys I've just been to a glaziers and asked about having the fake cd made out of glass and was told that it could be made out of 4mm Satin glass. It will cost about £6 to have it made. I asked if it could be made about 1-2mm and was told that it wasn't possible to cut glass any shallower than 4mm. Does anyone know if this type of glass would work? Regards Terry