Homemade 35mm -- Edited Copy for Reading

Peter Sciretta · December 11th, 2003, 06:50 AM

Update:

Went over to best buy where they are selling a very cheap cd player/discman for 17.99 with a 5 buck instant rebate... so 12.99 plus tax leaving the store. Took this thing apart with a srewdriver and found that the motor that spins the disc can be completely seperated from the rest of the board and stuff... giving you the red and black wires off of the motor in which to hook up to a battery pack (which you can get at radio shack... I have a 2 triple A pack.) In between I also have wired a on off switch (also from radio shack). And believe me if I can do this... anyone can because I don't know crap about electronics. This is also the best way to do this thus far. The radio shack toy motors Agus reccoments make WAY too much noise, not even usuable with a boom, and vibrate WAY too much (that could be fixed with a stable design but why not just spend the extra 10 bucks and get the cd player motor and you won't spend endless house trying to center the cd on the toy motor and kill yourself when you realize the shots look great but you'll never be able to reccord dialogue with a device using that motor). So believe me... use the cd motor!

I am using a wide angle adapter I had (minus the wide lens like agus is doing) for my trv20 on my sony pd150. Problem is that you must zoom in a little to get away from the vinnetting of the actual lens. I went to NEWTONVILLE CAMERA looking for a macro lens and first off the clerk on the phone told me this adapter was not possile and tons of people were coming into his store recently buying and returning lenses, no one ever successful. I went there and proved to him that it does indeed work, however he was unable to produce me a 58mm threaded macro lens that would work with this device. (he had some macro lenses but they went out of focus before you could zoom out the vinnetting.)

Robert Martens · December 11th, 2003, 07:26 AM

I also managed to remove the motor from an old, broken CD player I had--only broke a few weeks ago, too, good thing I didn't throw it out! Stripped the wires, tapped 'em to a AA battery, thing spun up just fine. Best thing is, since it's a portable player, it has the little springy-ball "clip" style spindle. Holds the CD in place without glue, and spins at a nice speed (I think).

Now I just gotta get the equipment necessary to mount this bad boy to my VX2000, and the means to attach a lens to the front, and I can finish this project.

Peter A. Smith · December 11th, 2003, 09:16 AM

Peter or Robert, what was the model of the cd player or is it just any old cheap discman? I might buy it today and finish my version of the Agus35 using 35mm film cans by tonight. I already got an image and i just want to better stabilize the system by using another can before i post pics. I'm using tiffen macro lens +1, +2, +4 combined for a +7 for $39 at a local photo store. It worked out fine, but it seems using the cd motor might be the solution to the vibration sound problem.

Bob Hart · December 11th, 2003, 09:51 AM

For Peter Sciretta. - I used a generic 42mm eyepiece of chinese origin to fit Tasco telescopes, extracted the lenses to make up an adaptor from PD150 to PNP-HG night-vision intensifier. This frames the 18mm diameter display tightly top to bottom when the zoom is wide and corner to corner at about 25% in. It wouldn't be any use for the 35mm image frame size but a lower power two element lens set of similar design might.

In my early prototyping I used a similar less powerful lens set in a sub-assembly out of a Sony VCR16B telecine adaptor (a 16mm C mount lens, a macro spacer, a mirror, a ND filter and the two lenses in a module, all enclosed). This framed closer to the 35mm frame size and needed a lot more zoom to come in to frame onto the 18mm diameter display tube target.

There might be some benefit in experimenting with 90degree consumer telescope eyepieces and barlow lenses. I think the eyepiece lenses may be too powerful, but there may be something there - just a thought.

Both of these lens sets I describe do not erect the inverted image.

Jim Lafferty · December 11th, 2003, 10:37 AM

Just to tie some loose threads:

Agus's sugestion of finding a "cheap wide angle" with macro is fine, but you have to be sure you're getting one large enough for your lens's threading. For the GL1/GL2's out there, a good choice might be

this one. Not sure if the VX2000 has the same threading...

CD motors are great design choices -- they're so quiet.

Uhm, that's it for now.

- jim

J. Clayton Stansberry · December 11th, 2003, 10:38 AM

For those using a CD motor - AWESOME! I am glad it worked. Could you tell me how far you are putting the CD away from the lens, I mean are you having to extend it out very far (I know this will differ for different cameras, but I am speaking in general). And, if you are, how are you doing it? I will be making the trip to Best Buy soon...thanks for the info Peter!

Clay

Richard Mellor · December 11th, 2003, 11:38 AM

Peter -

In answer to your question about the telephoto lens adapter ... the slide on the bottom of the support has a screw to adjust the length of the arm. So you'd have another 6" extension that you don't see in my photo.

Sorry for the lagged response (been very busy during Christmas season). Can't wait to get back to work on this project.

Richard

Louis Grimaldo · December 11th, 2003, 02:09 PM

I have been getting all my materials together to build an Agus35 with a DVX100. I bought a 30 pack CD spindle but I am not sure where i should place the spinning CD. Would it be better to place it by the Camcorder lens or the SLR 50mm lens? Should you place the CD as close to the lens as possible?

Chris Black · December 11th, 2003, 02:17 PM

Ok folks ....i have some test video ...from a very very basic agus35. ......Let me just say that .....the video example is very poor quality. ....nothing at all like agus' videos. ....This is strickly a test.

www.elpez.com/agus35test.mpg

Here's what I did. ...I took a cardboard box ...cut a hole in each end ....stuck my vivitar lens in one end ...and the canon gl2 in the other end. ....i slit a hole in the top ....and stuck a sand papered clear CD in the top ....then i just shot some video. .......

A few notes

Lighting is definitely a problem ....As you can see ...it was very dark ...and I had the settings cranked up pretty high in the gl2

Another thing .....Agus recommened using 600 grit sandpaper ....I didnt have 600 ....so i used 150 .........as you can see it puts huge scratches in the CD ........Also .......as you can probably see ....the CD (ground glass) ...is not spinning. ....

Aaron ......I posted a question about the round bright spot .....I fixed that problem ..... ..I hadnt sanded the CD enough. ....I took the CD out ..sanded it some more ...and that ...essentially diffused the bright round light.

Hope i didnt offend Agus by constructing such a bad test agus35 ...

let me know if you have any questions or comments

chris.

John Gaspain · December 11th, 2003, 02:34 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Louis Grimaldo : I have been getting all my materials together to build an Agus35 with a DVX100. I bought a 30 pack CD spindle but I am not sure where i should place the spinning CD. Would it be better to place it by the Camcorder lens or the SLR 50mm lens? Should you place the CD as close to the lens as possible? -->>>

it depends on your lens and camera, like mine is 1 3/4" away from the 50mm ans 3/4" away from the camera.

Just experiment untill you get a clear projection on the gg.

hehe...I guess I better let the cat out of the bag now- (mine is adjustable :) I will post some pics of my setup in a while.

Chris Black · December 11th, 2003, 05:00 PM

posing a thought ...and asking a question ....

isnt there some sort of material out there ...like wax paper .....that you could put in the place of the GG ........like ..the translucent screen in an SLR camera. ......that way ..you could have a clean enough image ..without having to spin the projection screen (ground glass)

my question is ......what percentage of the original picture ...(720 X 480) are you losing.......by zooming in to the image close enough to eliminate vignetting.

for exampe ...are you ending up with ....a 680 X 420 image?? ....

chris

Luke Andrews · December 11th, 2003, 05:34 PM

OK I'll take a stab

# 1 even a very pure frosted (Wax Paper) type substrate is going to have issues because your taking 24-30fps it going to look like your filming thru a screen because the grain will not change overtime, unlike film who's grain is organic like due to changing it's pattern every frame. at least thats my take on it.

and #2
your not losing any resolution because you have not hit the cameras CCD's yet they are going to take a 720X480 sample of what ever they see.

I'm working on my plans right now, I really look forward to seeing what everyone comes up with.

Luke

John Gaspain · December 11th, 2003, 05:43 PM

heres my version,

im still experimenting with having to zoom slightly. I think that I can get the camera closer to the gg.

the gg is adjustable by moving the fan frame along the guide bolts.

I have a fresnel lens 1/8" away from the gg mounted on guitar wire.

I am using a Sima wide angle lens that I got at Bestbuy for $30 then removed the WA lens portion leaving the macro in place, If I just move the cam 1/2" closer I have a great picture without zooming, but I dont have a good way to secure it properly so I left it alone for now.

I also noticed that the final image is very dark, I might need a lighter gg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...4/fa531005.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...8/fa531004.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...c/fa531009.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...c/fa53082e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...8/fa528f0c.jpg

gaspain

John Gaspain · December 11th, 2003, 06:35 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jon Yurek : Interesting. VERY interesting. I may have to steal your idea of using the fan casing when I make mine. And is that a fresnel lens in the shot where the CD is off? -->>>

ya thats the fresnel, im still unshure of the proper distance away from the GG, rit now its about 1/8" away (1/4" would be better)

Im pretty happy with using the fan. Its quiet and smooth. I used a part from an old DVD player to hold the CD, gluing that on center of the fan was a pain to get it centered. I also had to trim alot of plastic of the shroud with a mill so the GG wouldnt rub.

Jim Lafferty · December 11th, 2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Gaspain : heres my version,

im still experimenting with having to zoom slightly. I think that I can get the camera closer to the gg...

Very cool. I'm using that same box housing from Radio Shack, but my design isn't nearly as industrial.

For those of you using the CD motor -- I noticed my portable CD player uses two "AA" batteries. Would upping that to a 9v stress the wiring or motor itself?

Also...my latest trip to Home Depot had me looking over the sandpaper section. I've already used 150 on my GG, and 600 was nowhere in sight. Agus, and others who've experienced success with their design -- can we see close-up, clean shots of your GG?

- jim

December 11th, 2003, 10:38 AM	#156
J. Clayton Stansberry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	For those using a CD motor - AWESOME! I am glad it worked. Could you tell me how far you are putting the CD away from the lens, I mean are you having to extend it out very far (I know this will differ for different cameras, but I am speaking in general). And, if you are, how are you doing it? I will be making the trip to Best Buy soon...thanks for the info Peter! Clay __________________ I understand everything about nothing.

December 11th, 2003, 02:34 PM	#160
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	<<<-- Originally posted by Louis Grimaldo : I have been getting all my materials together to build an Agus35 with a DVX100. I bought a 30 pack CD spindle but I am not sure where i should place the spinning CD. Would it be better to place it by the Camcorder lens or the SLR 50mm lens? Should you place the CD as close to the lens as possible? -->>> it depends on your lens and camera, like mine is 1 3/4" away from the 50mm ans 3/4" away from the camera. Just experiment untill you get a clear projection on the gg. hehe...I guess I better let the cat out of the bag now- (mine is adjustable :) I will post some pics of my setup in a while. __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

December 11th, 2003, 05:43 PM	#163
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	heres my version, im still experimenting with having to zoom slightly. I think that I can get the camera closer to the gg. the gg is adjustable by moving the fan frame along the guide bolts. I have a fresnel lens 1/8" away from the gg mounted on guitar wire. I am using a Sima wide angle lens that I got at Bestbuy for $30 then removed the WA lens portion leaving the macro in place, If I just move the cam 1/2" closer I have a great picture without zooming, but I dont have a good way to secure it properly so I left it alone for now. I also noticed that the final image is very dark, I might need a lighter gg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...4/fa531005.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...8/fa531004.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...c/fa531009.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...c/fa53082e.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...8/fa528f0c.jpg gaspain __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

December 11th, 2003, 06:35 PM	#164
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	<<<-- Originally posted by Jon Yurek : Interesting. VERY interesting. I may have to steal your idea of using the fan casing when I make mine. And is that a fresnel lens in the shot where the CD is off? -->>> ya thats the fresnel, im still unshure of the proper distance away from the GG, rit now its about 1/8" away (1/4" would be better) Im pretty happy with using the fan. Its quiet and smooth. I used a part from an old DVD player to hold the CD, gluing that on center of the fan was a pain to get it centered. I also had to trim alot of plastic of the shroud with a mill so the GG wouldnt rub. __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

December 11th, 2003, 06:50 AM	#151
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	Update: Went over to best buy where they are selling a very cheap cd player/discman for 17.99 with a 5 buck instant rebate... so 12.99 plus tax leaving the store. Took this thing apart with a srewdriver and found that the motor that spins the disc can be completely seperated from the rest of the board and stuff... giving you the red and black wires off of the motor in which to hook up to a battery pack (which you can get at radio shack... I have a 2 triple A pack.) In between I also have wired a on off switch (also from radio shack). And believe me if I can do this... anyone can because I don't know crap about electronics. This is also the best way to do this thus far. The radio shack toy motors Agus reccoments make WAY too much noise, not even usuable with a boom, and vibrate WAY too much (that could be fixed with a stable design but why not just spend the extra 10 bucks and get the cd player motor and you won't spend endless house trying to center the cd on the toy motor and kill yourself when you realize the shots look great but you'll never be able to reccord dialogue with a device using that motor). So believe me... use the cd motor! I am using a wide angle adapter I had (minus the wide lens like agus is doing) for my trv20 on my sony pd150. Problem is that you must zoom in a little to get away from the vinnetting of the actual lens. I went to NEWTONVILLE CAMERA looking for a macro lens and first off the clerk on the phone told me this adapter was not possile and tons of people were coming into his store recently buying and returning lenses, no one ever successful. I went there and proved to him that it does indeed work, however he was unable to produce me a 58mm threaded macro lens that would work with this device. (he had some macro lenses but they went out of focus before you could zoom out the vinnetting.)

December 11th, 2003, 07:26 AM	#152
Robert Martens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 820	I also managed to remove the motor from an old, broken CD player I had--only broke a few weeks ago, too, good thing I didn't throw it out! Stripped the wires, tapped 'em to a AA battery, thing spun up just fine. Best thing is, since it's a portable player, it has the little springy-ball "clip" style spindle. Holds the CD in place without glue, and spins at a nice speed (I think). Now I just gotta get the equipment necessary to mount this bad boy to my VX2000, and the means to attach a lens to the front, and I can finish this project.

December 11th, 2003, 09:16 AM	#153
Peter A. Smith New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Vietnam Posts: 23	Peter or Robert, what was the model of the cd player or is it just any old cheap discman? I might buy it today and finish my version of the Agus35 using 35mm film cans by tonight. I already got an image and i just want to better stabilize the system by using another can before i post pics. I'm using tiffen macro lens +1, +2, +4 combined for a +7 for $39 at a local photo store. It worked out fine, but it seems using the cd motor might be the solution to the vibration sound problem.

December 11th, 2003, 09:51 AM	#154
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	For Peter Sciretta. - I used a generic 42mm eyepiece of chinese origin to fit Tasco telescopes, extracted the lenses to make up an adaptor from PD150 to PNP-HG night-vision intensifier. This frames the 18mm diameter display tightly top to bottom when the zoom is wide and corner to corner at about 25% in. It wouldn't be any use for the 35mm image frame size but a lower power two element lens set of similar design might. In my early prototyping I used a similar less powerful lens set in a sub-assembly out of a Sony VCR16B telecine adaptor (a 16mm C mount lens, a macro spacer, a mirror, a ND filter and the two lenses in a module, all enclosed). This framed closer to the 35mm frame size and needed a lot more zoom to come in to frame onto the 18mm diameter display tube target. There might be some benefit in experimenting with 90degree consumer telescope eyepieces and barlow lenses. I think the eyepiece lenses may be too powerful, but there may be something there - just a thought. Both of these lens sets I describe do not erect the inverted image.

December 11th, 2003, 10:37 AM	#155
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Just to tie some loose threads: Agus's sugestion of finding a "cheap wide angle" with macro is fine, but you have to be sure you're getting one large enough for your lens's threading. For the GL1/GL2's out there, a good choice might be this one. Not sure if the VX2000 has the same threading... CD motors are great design choices -- they're so quiet. Uhm, that's it for now. - jim

December 11th, 2003, 11:38 AM	#157
Richard Mellor Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: cambridge ma Posts: 247	Peter - In answer to your question about the telephoto lens adapter ... the slide on the bottom of the support has a screw to adjust the length of the arm. So you'd have another 6" extension that you don't see in my photo. Sorry for the lagged response (been very busy during Christmas season). Can't wait to get back to work on this project. Richard

December 11th, 2003, 02:09 PM	#158
Louis Grimaldo Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tampa Posts: 26	I have been getting all my materials together to build an Agus35 with a DVX100. I bought a 30 pack CD spindle but I am not sure where i should place the spinning CD. Would it be better to place it by the Camcorder lens or the SLR 50mm lens? Should you place the CD as close to the lens as possible?

December 11th, 2003, 02:17 PM	#159
Chris Black New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Corpus Christi texas Posts: 14	Ok folks ....i have some test video ...from a very very basic agus35. ......Let me just say that .....the video example is very poor quality. ....nothing at all like agus' videos. ....This is strickly a test. www.elpez.com/agus35test.mpg Here's what I did. ...I took a cardboard box ...cut a hole in each end ....stuck my vivitar lens in one end ...and the canon gl2 in the other end. ....i slit a hole in the top ....and stuck a sand papered clear CD in the top ....then i just shot some video. ....... A few notes Lighting is definitely a problem ....As you can see ...it was very dark ...and I had the settings cranked up pretty high in the gl2 Another thing .....Agus recommened using 600 grit sandpaper ....I didnt have 600 ....so i used 150 .........as you can see it puts huge scratches in the CD ........Also .......as you can probably see ....the CD (ground glass) ...is not spinning. .... Aaron ......I posted a question about the round bright spot .....I fixed that problem ..... ..I hadnt sanded the CD enough. ....I took the CD out ..sanded it some more ...and that ...essentially diffused the bright round light. Hope i didnt offend Agus by constructing such a bad test agus35 ... let me know if you have any questions or comments chris.

December 11th, 2003, 05:00 PM	#161
Chris Black New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Corpus Christi texas Posts: 14	posing a thought ...and asking a question .... isnt there some sort of material out there ...like wax paper .....that you could put in the place of the GG ........like ..the translucent screen in an SLR camera. ......that way ..you could have a clean enough image ..without having to spin the projection screen (ground glass) my question is ......what percentage of the original picture ...(720 X 480) are you losing.......by zooming in to the image close enough to eliminate vignetting. for exampe ...are you ending up with ....a 680 X 420 image?? .... chris

December 11th, 2003, 05:34 PM	#162
Luke Andrews New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Medina, OH Posts: 13	OK I'll take a stab # 1 even a very pure frosted (Wax Paper) type substrate is going to have issues because your taking 24-30fps it going to look like your filming thru a screen because the grain will not change overtime, unlike film who's grain is organic like due to changing it's pattern every frame. at least thats my take on it. and #2 your not losing any resolution because you have not hit the cameras CCD's yet they are going to take a 720X480 sample of what ever they see. I'm working on my plans right now, I really look forward to seeing what everyone comes up with. Luke