Homemade 35mm Adapter

John Gaspain · January 27th, 2004, 01:35 PM

I use Vegas, it allows you to choose which field first. I never understood why the option was there, I guess It could be for this type of scenerio

Jim Lafferty · January 27th, 2004, 02:07 PM

Field Order allows you to make your own progressive images, as well, by combining fields. I'm fairly certain there are other reasons that field order is offered as an option, but off the top of my head I can't tell you what they are.

Check out these images to point out what I mean about combining upper and lower-field renders, the results are quite good:

http://ideaspora.net/progressive

"Manual De-Interlaced" is a three-step process -- render two copies of the same file with the filed orders set to Upper and Lower, then place them in sync on your timeline, one above the other at 50% opacity, and render that out as a progresive file.

- jim

Chris Hurd · January 27th, 2004, 02:10 PM

Sorry for the delay -- the latest from Bob Hart:

Attached are two .pdf files and two .jpg images. The .pdf files are a rough
and ready how-to for an adaptor for the Century Optics 16:9 with PD150
bayonet mount to 52mm front filter thread 25mm still-camera lens, in this
case the Micro Nikkor 55mm. The two .jpg images are an image of the finished
Agus35 Australian Plumber's Version complete with blue hammertone paint to
make it go faster and a sunset image with the 55mm lens."

Subject: Re: Agus35-PD150

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus3516.pdf

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus3516b.pdf

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/Aguscam.jpg

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus730p.JPG

Brett Erskine · January 27th, 2004, 11:53 PM

Heres a test chart for the optical quality of all of our mini35 designs. Any promising designs should be put to this test to know for sure that its working as well as it can.

It tests for:
1)chroma aberration
2)barrel distortion
3)how much grain is apparent from the ground glass

How does it work?

Step 1: Print out the picture of the test chart on high quality glossy photo paper at 300dpi. You'll find a link at:
http://www.cinematographerreels.com/mini35info.htm

Step 2: Measure the image after it prints out. It should measure 24mm x 18mm.

Step 3: Videotape the image with only the diopter lens your using in front of your camera (diopters are also known as macros, closeup filters, achromats and apochromats) and make sure its in focus and that you are filling the viewfinder edge to edge with the image.

Step 4: Post a frame grab from your video here at full resolution (720x480). If you have straight lines in your frame grab and no color blurring then your mini35 system has pasted the test.

Now if you want to check for how much grain can be seen in your ground glass repeat the first 4 steps with your mini35 system put all together including your 35mm lens.

These tests will check, with precision, everything but resolution. You'll need to shoot a professional resolution chart for that. Post that too if you have frame grabs.

Link to mini35 test chart:
http://www.cinematographerreels.com/mini35info.htm

Brett Erskine
Director of Photography
Premiere Visions
1761 W. La Palma Ave., Suite #302
Anaheim, CA 92801
www.CinematographerReels.com
BErskine@CinematographerReels.com

Rob Lohman · January 28th, 2004, 04:03 AM

I can't help to have the feeling that the picture at that small a
size and compressed with JPEG is perhaps not going be a good
comparison between the camera's. I would take a larger resolution
one and give it in an uncompressed format. Does this only work
for people with colo(u)r printers?

Bob Hart · January 28th, 2004, 05:13 AM

Many thanks Ryan, John and Jim. I'll have a try at those solutions.

I did some massage on the clip with Premiere's version of de-interlace and it seems to have helped. Another complication has been a slight intensity strobing effect somewhat like a telecine not quite in sync.

With the clip filmlooked and contrast cranked up, the intense phases which have a period of about 3 seconds seemed to arravate the jitter. It looked fine on DVD software playback, just the TV itself did not like it.

The intensity variation is a result of a groundglass CD which has aquired some less opaque spots due to frequent handling. The glass disks should hopefully fix this.

The music video doesn't look all that great. One needs to pay a lot more attention to focussing and a larger screen is a necessity. The natural backlight was very strong and spill in the groundglass was aggavated. Due to impact on the amenity of the live performance I could not use any more than 1000w of bounced light.

The best Agus35 images so far have been in later PM or early AM light. The music clip lighting was a severe test and shows that more work is yet needed.

Brett Erskine · January 28th, 2004, 02:24 PM

The test chart above is at 300dpi and prints out at the proper size of 24x18. As far as a uncompressed image I can assure you that there was no difference in quality between the uncompressed .tif file and the .jpg Im sharing here. In fact I looked at the image at 1000% to make sure. Its the same. Besides this isnt a resolution chart. It simply important that it prints out the right size and the grid lines are all straight.

Brett Erskine
Director of Photography
Premiere Visions
1761 W. La Palma Ave., Suite #302
Anaheim, CA 92801
www.CinematographerReels.com
BErskine@CinematographerReels.com

Filip Kovcin · January 30th, 2004, 01:34 PM

i'm looking for anyone who has build agus 35 for dvx100 panasonic camera (or 72mm diameter lens). just want to know more about it. i did make 3 prototypes for 52mm and 58 mm diameter lenses and there are ok. but it looks, like 72mm is very difficult with that cd GG diameter.

any thougths?

thanks,

filip

Bob Hart · January 31st, 2004, 08:00 PM

To Brett.

(REVISED TEST IN THESE BRACKETS - Brett. I have not been able to send any messages or images to your email. The error message says the mailbox is full.)

Thanks for the miniature test pattern. I had to manually resize the image a few times in Canon BJC7100 printer preview but got it down to 24mm x 18mm. At that size it's got a few ink hairs on it but serves the purpose.

As I have previously mentioned, the telescope eyepiece lens-set in my homemade nightvision adaptor only just frames correctly on a 1.85:1 35mm projector gate without vignetting.

I found following tests with your life size chart that by closer coupling of the lens to the PD150 and reversal of the composite element of the lens, I could just frame the test pattern.

During this process I discovered a possible cause of some other problems I have had.

In the process of more thoroughly blacking out the interior of the Agus enclosure, I had re-installed the disk motor mount out of position by 5mm. This did not affect ability to backfocus the prime lens or focus on the disk but did reduce the image frame to just 15mm across which I did not pick up - the reason why definition fell through the floor on my music shoot the other day.

So thanks for the prompt. I was chasing other dead ends.

I'll re-build the adaptor and post a revised design and test images here if possible per favore of Chris.

Taylor Moore · January 31st, 2004, 08:04 PM

Filip,
There has been alittle headway on the DVX check here latest posts:

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/Y...228577;start=0

Brett Erskine · February 1st, 2004, 02:02 AM

Old junk email address. Sorry about that. You or anyone else that has any questions can send me email at:

BErskine@CinematographerReels.com

Chris Hurd · February 2nd, 2004, 08:52 AM

Hey Bob, keep sending images and I'll keep uploading -- that goes for anybody who has pics but no server space -- I'm more than happy to put 'em on dvinfo.net. Hope this helps,

Bob Hart · February 3rd, 2004, 07:44 AM

Many thanks Chris. I have more on the way, the same set I was attempting to send to Brett.

The images when they arrive will be as follows :-

Sockimg2.jpg -- A "how-not" to use your Agus35.

Faults are soft image, background burnout due to thick cumulus clouds and blue bias which had to be subsequently graded out, severe vignetting into TV safe area due to operator distraction of explaining the Agus35 principle to a stills newscameraman who was also using Nikon. I had dismounted the Agus35 to enable the innards to be examined, remounted it and forget to reset the zoom.

Filmb&a.jpg -- a before and after demo of the filmlook process applied to Agus35-PD150P origination.

This filmlook process is the same process which is explained by two articles reproduced here at dvinfo.net. Zoom in close on the images and you will see the interlace artifacts produced by a CD which is not running true.

TEST2.2C.jpg -- This is a comparison of a home-made frosted CD, one frame with disk staionary, the other with disk spinning.

Testreq4.jpg -- This is a frame grab of Brett's test pattern before I re-adjusted the position of the groundglass disk which had become misplaced due to furthur work and reassembly.

Testreq5.jpg -- This is a frame grab of the PD150 view of the groundglass CD disk to show texture and all of the defects which are many. Until I am finished breaking the appliance open and tinkering this disk will remain is it is prone to damage from handling.

Testreq6.jpg -- This is a frame grab of the PD150 view of the microscope slide which was given the aluminium oxide treatment.

There is a finer grade of aluminium oxide which I am currently trying to get my hands on. I am also awaiting a piece of optical glass Ohara of Japan are kindly sending to me to test the aluminium oxide on.

If this test is okay I will be buying myself some 1.3mm thickness CD sized disks complete with 15mm centre hole to apply the groundglass finish to. If anyone else is interested in buying disks from Ohara please let your interest be known here.

My own tests with the Agus35 so far hint that whilst it is a handy facility for the video enthusiast, as a serious videographer's tool it has a way to go yet.

The SW5042 42mm 50mm (2 inch)telescope eyepiece in its unmarked box is apparently a Tasco accessory. The lens set extracted from this appliance enables close coupling of the Agus35 to the PD150 but does not yield an image which I would regard as meeting the professional standards otherwise obtainable from this camcorder.

Chris Hurd · February 3rd, 2004, 11:23 AM

Bob's images noted above are now up... see his directory at www.dvinfo.net/media/hart.

Mike Tesh · February 3rd, 2004, 10:12 PM

Here are my images:

http://www.visionengine.com/galleria...ls.php?album=1

Still not done. Have many things to add including a top handle, condenser lens, nice paint job, LCD mounted on the top coming off the side, 1/4 inch tripod nut, ect.

January 27th, 2004, 01:35 PM	#886
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	I use Vegas, it allows you to choose which field first. I never understood why the option was there, I guess It could be for this type of scenerio __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

January 27th, 2004, 02:07 PM	#887
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Field Order allows you to make your own progressive images, as well, by combining fields. I'm fairly certain there are other reasons that field order is offered as an option, but off the top of my head I can't tell you what they are. Check out these images to point out what I mean about combining upper and lower-field renders, the results are quite good: http://ideaspora.net/progressive "Manual De-Interlaced" is a three-step process -- render two copies of the same file with the filed orders set to Upper and Lower, then place them in sync on your timeline, one above the other at 50% opacity, and render that out as a progresive file. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

January 27th, 2004, 02:10 PM	#888
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Sorry for the delay -- the latest from Bob Hart: Attached are two .pdf files and two .jpg images. The .pdf files are a rough and ready how-to for an adaptor for the Century Optics 16:9 with PD150 bayonet mount to 52mm front filter thread 25mm still-camera lens, in this case the Micro Nikkor 55mm. The two .jpg images are an image of the finished Agus35 Australian Plumber's Version complete with blue hammertone paint to make it go faster and a sunset image with the 55mm lens." Subject: Re: Agus35-PD150 www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus3516.pdf www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus3516b.pdf www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/Aguscam.jpg www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus730p.JPG __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 28th, 2004, 04:03 AM	#890
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I can't help to have the feeling that the picture at that small a size and compressed with JPEG is perhaps not going be a good comparison between the camera's. I would take a larger resolution one and give it in an uncompressed format. Does this only work for people with colo(u)r printers? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 28th, 2004, 02:24 PM	#892
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	test chart details The test chart above is at 300dpi and prints out at the proper size of 24x18. As far as a uncompressed image I can assure you that there was no difference in quality between the uncompressed .tif file and the .jpg Im sharing here. In fact I looked at the image at 1000% to make sure. Its the same. Besides this isnt a resolution chart. It simply important that it prints out the right size and the grid lines are all straight. Brett Erskine Director of Photography Premiere Visions 1761 W. La Palma Ave., Suite #302 Anaheim, CA 92801 www.CinematographerReels.com BErskine@CinematographerReels.com

January 27th, 2004, 11:53 PM	#889
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	Heres a test chart for the optical quality of all of our mini35 designs. Any promising designs should be put to this test to know for sure that its working as well as it can. It tests for: 1)chroma aberration 2)barrel distortion 3)how much grain is apparent from the ground glass How does it work? Step 1: Print out the picture of the test chart on high quality glossy photo paper at 300dpi. You'll find a link at: http://www.cinematographerreels.com/mini35info.htm Step 2: Measure the image after it prints out. It should measure 24mm x 18mm. Step 3: Videotape the image with only the diopter lens your using in front of your camera (diopters are also known as macros, closeup filters, achromats and apochromats) and make sure its in focus and that you are filling the viewfinder edge to edge with the image. Step 4: Post a frame grab from your video here at full resolution (720x480). If you have straight lines in your frame grab and no color blurring then your mini35 system has pasted the test. Now if you want to check for how much grain can be seen in your ground glass repeat the first 4 steps with your mini35 system put all together including your 35mm lens. These tests will check, with precision, everything but resolution. You'll need to shoot a professional resolution chart for that. Post that too if you have frame grabs. Link to mini35 test chart: http://www.cinematographerreels.com/mini35info.htm Brett Erskine Director of Photography Premiere Visions 1761 W. La Palma Ave., Suite #302 Anaheim, CA 92801 www.CinematographerReels.com BErskine@CinematographerReels.com

January 28th, 2004, 05:13 AM	#891
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Many thanks Ryan, John and Jim. I'll have a try at those solutions. I did some massage on the clip with Premiere's version of de-interlace and it seems to have helped. Another complication has been a slight intensity strobing effect somewhat like a telecine not quite in sync. With the clip filmlooked and contrast cranked up, the intense phases which have a period of about 3 seconds seemed to arravate the jitter. It looked fine on DVD software playback, just the TV itself did not like it. The intensity variation is a result of a groundglass CD which has aquired some less opaque spots due to frequent handling. The glass disks should hopefully fix this. The music video doesn't look all that great. One needs to pay a lot more attention to focussing and a larger screen is a necessity. The natural backlight was very strong and spill in the groundglass was aggavated. Due to impact on the amenity of the live performance I could not use any more than 1000w of bounced light. The best Agus35 images so far have been in later PM or early AM light. The music clip lighting was a severe test and shows that more work is yet needed.

January 30th, 2004, 01:34 PM	#893
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	dvx agus35? i'm looking for anyone who has build agus 35 for dvx100 panasonic camera (or 72mm diameter lens). just want to know more about it. i did make 3 prototypes for 52mm and 58 mm diameter lenses and there are ok. but it looks, like 72mm is very difficult with that cd GG diameter. any thougths? thanks, filip

January 31st, 2004, 08:00 PM	#894
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	To Brett. (REVISED TEST IN THESE BRACKETS - Brett. I have not been able to send any messages or images to your email. The error message says the mailbox is full.) Thanks for the miniature test pattern. I had to manually resize the image a few times in Canon BJC7100 printer preview but got it down to 24mm x 18mm. At that size it's got a few ink hairs on it but serves the purpose. As I have previously mentioned, the telescope eyepiece lens-set in my homemade nightvision adaptor only just frames correctly on a 1.85:1 35mm projector gate without vignetting. I found following tests with your life size chart that by closer coupling of the lens to the PD150 and reversal of the composite element of the lens, I could just frame the test pattern. During this process I discovered a possible cause of some other problems I have had. In the process of more thoroughly blacking out the interior of the Agus enclosure, I had re-installed the disk motor mount out of position by 5mm. This did not affect ability to backfocus the prime lens or focus on the disk but did reduce the image frame to just 15mm across which I did not pick up - the reason why definition fell through the floor on my music shoot the other day. So thanks for the prompt. I was chasing other dead ends. I'll re-build the adaptor and post a revised design and test images here if possible per favore of Chris.

January 31st, 2004, 08:04 PM	#895
Taylor Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 94	DVX Filip, There has been alittle headway on the DVX check here latest posts: http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/Y...228577;start=0

February 1st, 2004, 02:02 AM	#896
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	Old junk email address. Sorry about that. You or anyone else that has any questions can send me email at: BErskine@CinematographerReels.com

February 2nd, 2004, 08:52 AM	#897
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hey Bob, keep sending images and I'll keep uploading -- that goes for anybody who has pics but no server space -- I'm more than happy to put 'em on dvinfo.net. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 3rd, 2004, 07:44 AM	#898
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Many thanks Chris. I have more on the way, the same set I was attempting to send to Brett. The images when they arrive will be as follows :- Sockimg2.jpg -- A "how-not" to use your Agus35. Faults are soft image, background burnout due to thick cumulus clouds and blue bias which had to be subsequently graded out, severe vignetting into TV safe area due to operator distraction of explaining the Agus35 principle to a stills newscameraman who was also using Nikon. I had dismounted the Agus35 to enable the innards to be examined, remounted it and forget to reset the zoom. Filmb&a.jpg -- a before and after demo of the filmlook process applied to Agus35-PD150P origination. This filmlook process is the same process which is explained by two articles reproduced here at dvinfo.net. Zoom in close on the images and you will see the interlace artifacts produced by a CD which is not running true. TEST2.2C.jpg -- This is a comparison of a home-made frosted CD, one frame with disk staionary, the other with disk spinning. Testreq4.jpg -- This is a frame grab of Brett's test pattern before I re-adjusted the position of the groundglass disk which had become misplaced due to furthur work and reassembly. Testreq5.jpg -- This is a frame grab of the PD150 view of the groundglass CD disk to show texture and all of the defects which are many. Until I am finished breaking the appliance open and tinkering this disk will remain is it is prone to damage from handling. Testreq6.jpg -- This is a frame grab of the PD150 view of the microscope slide which was given the aluminium oxide treatment. There is a finer grade of aluminium oxide which I am currently trying to get my hands on. I am also awaiting a piece of optical glass Ohara of Japan are kindly sending to me to test the aluminium oxide on. If this test is okay I will be buying myself some 1.3mm thickness CD sized disks complete with 15mm centre hole to apply the groundglass finish to. If anyone else is interested in buying disks from Ohara please let your interest be known here. My own tests with the Agus35 so far hint that whilst it is a handy facility for the video enthusiast, as a serious videographer's tool it has a way to go yet. The SW5042 42mm 50mm (2 inch)telescope eyepiece in its unmarked box is apparently a Tasco accessory. The lens set extracted from this appliance enables close coupling of the Agus35 to the PD150 but does not yield an image which I would regard as meeting the professional standards otherwise obtainable from this camcorder.

February 3rd, 2004, 11:23 AM	#899
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Bob's images noted above are now up... see his directory at www.dvinfo.net/media/hart. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 3rd, 2004, 10:12 PM	#900
Mike Tesh Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Detroit MI Posts: 253	Here are my images: http://www.visionengine.com/galleria...ls.php?album=1 Still not done. Have many things to add including a top handle, condenser lens, nice paint job, LCD mounted on the top coming off the side, 1/4 inch tripod nut, ect. __________________ ScapeFilms.com \| My Photography \| IMDB Profile