Homemade 35mm Adapter

[Filip Kovcin]

i'm far from my camera now and i never tested that...

the "idea" is following-

- use chinch cable and connect it on analog video OUTPUT on your camera

- connect this cable to certain device (i do not know what to use, but let say this device will do the trick, some programmed IC etc...) which will turn image upside down, and SEND the inverted (upside down) video signal to it's own output

- connect s-video cable to that IC device to "output side" of that device

- connect that very same s-video cable to the s-video socket on camera (the IC should "say" to the camera to treat that signal as INPUT!)
- the same device should send the inverted (upside down) image JUST to the LCD flip screen, not to the camera's recorder.


now, what will happened?

will we see image upside down - if say IC works ok?

anything at all?
is this possible at all?

camera --> analog video output(chinch)-->"device" (image upside down)---> s-video cable-->s-video as input--->camera's lcd flip monitor

please IGNORE my lack of knowledge in electronics.

just a thought.

filip

[Bob Hart]

Have made a rough pattern adaptor for the Century Optics 16:9 anamorphic into Micro Nikkor 55mm.

For close-up work it's not going to be all that good under 4 feet away. The combination will not resolve a test pattern vertically and horizontally at the same focus setting on the Micro Nikkor lens. You can get about 450 lines one way or another but not for both.

It was however a severe low-light test with everything wide-open. With the prime lens stopped down to about f5.6 things do improve and daylight performance should be better.

This is not to criticise the Nikkor or Century Optics products. They were never ever intended to be subjected to this sort of misuse.

Has anyone done any post-production experiments for "film-look" with images aquired via the Agus35 system? I suspect these images will need different treatment particularly for sharpness than raw video.

Filip. There is nothing wrong with the concept of your idea. Long ago before wall mounts it used to be as simple as turning the tube coils through 180 degrees on a television set when hanging it by its base from an overhead mount. I don't know if any camcorders have the option of outputting and importing video at the same time via the ports you mentioned.

This is a matter of somebody with the knowing, to choose components and do the circuit design legwork. Some small LCD monitors have horizontal reversal built in.

It might be a lot more difficult but not impossible, for the average homebody to put together, than assembling secondhand lenses, low or no-cost pipe, plastic and hardware bits which have become part of the Agus cost minimisation ethos.

I examined turning the CCD array over in the VX2000/PD150 camcorder families. - No good. The module is donkey-trapped with a one-way shape and fastener pattern to protect against incorrect assembly.

[Luke Andrews]

I ordered my Fresnels from this website they are located in china, but they shipped very fast. http://www.3dlens.com/

Luke

[John Gaspain]

<<<-- Originally posted by John Gaspain : I found a source for REAL glass CD's!!!....well sorta. My buddy is gonna try and get one for me from a recording studio. Apparently they use glass CD's for master cuts of songs so they last forever called a "Glass Master" I should have more info in a few days.

WOO HOO!!

check this out http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technol...rep_master.htm

John -->>>

turns out that the CD reproduction places have the glass CD's, not the mastering studios, they use it to 'stamp' out thousands of plastic CD's. So I still dont have one.

Anybody know a CD reproducer?

[Bob Hart]

RE: GLASS CD SIZE DISKS.

I have received some info from Ohara in Japan regarding CD sized glass disks for better groundglasses. It is quoted below. Their representative has been a real gentleman, very patient with my dumb enquiries and has steered me towards a product which might suit us. Don't know about the costs yet.

Message :-

""""
Dear Mr. Bob Hart;

Thank you for your e-mail. We can put 15mm ID on 120mm Outer Diamater disk. We can provide the thickness of 1.0mm. I would propose we supply the Cut Disks with 1.2 or 1.3mm in thickness so you can finish the disks to be 1.0mm thick after polishing by your hand. It seems Concentricity between ID and OD for accurate spinning is critical for you. Our best specification for the concentricity is 5 micron meters or less. Will this value meet your requirement?
Regarding our Material for 3.5" Hard Disk Drive, unfortunately the material is partially crystallized and is not translucent. Therefore I believe you shall make a choice of the material from our regular optical glass line-up. If you are interested in receiving a quotation from us for cut-disks, please let me know the following points:

1. OD (120mm) and ID(15mm) tolerances
2. Prefered thickness and the tolerance of the of the cut disks(Is 1.2 or 1.3mm OK?)
3. OD - ID Concentricity( is 5 Micron Meter or less OK?)
4. Quantity
5. Prefered Glass Type

We look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards;

Hiro Tsuruta, Ohara Inc.

""""
END OF QUOTE.

[Noah Posnick]

this isnt related to the most popular topic of finding a higher quality cd shaped glass, but I was wondering what macro lens people recomend I buy for my GL1. Which company? Is +7 enough? Is +10 too much? I want something that won't give me significant distortion, but also won't give me vignetting. Once I have this I will finally be able to put together my adapter.

[Paul Doss]

Here is a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3071734060&category=48609 to an lcd monitor that claims to be able to flip image horizontaly or vertically. It must not be that difficult to do electronically as this is just a $70 monitor w/$15 shipping. I know the quality couldn't be much for that price. Also I have no connection with this, just thought it was interesting for those not trying to flip optically in the adapter.

Paul

dvdof.com

[James Ball]

I've been following the thread for some time.

I'm a chemist by trade and have been trying out various etching methods. I think I have a repeatable way to etch glass blanks. I searched the thread but didn't see anyone mention a source of blanks that are CD sized. Any leads?

I have an Intel QX3 USB microscope and hope to get some images up as soon as I can find a plastic matte finish stock CD blank for comparison.

Also,
I have built a variable speed motor controller. Has anyone here tried to vary the speed of the motor. Obviously the faster you spin it the more temporal averaging. I'm just starting to try it out it's controlled with a 5K pot.

[Bob Hart]

Noah. There's more qualified people than I to comment on macro lenses and some websites and vendors quotes furthur back through this thread.

Between 7x and 10x seems to be the consensus on what works. 7x or a combination of 1x +2x +4x in a stack apparently can be had in common 58mm filter thread (pitch 0.7mm). 10x can as well but so far the lens itself is a lot smaller than the 58mm ring it is built into.

My own tests have been with the stacked lenses which comes as 3 lenses in a pouch kit from HOYA. I have also used a lens set out of a telescope eyepiece in a home-made 58mm adaptor. It contains two lenses which have to be assembled in reverse.

With the HOYA stack, you have to sit off about 5.5" from the groundglass for the correct framing which is a little awkward to handle. This yields a good flat frame with little distortion but may be soft in the corners.

With the telescope lens set, you can go as close as 2" to 2.5" which enabled a close couple of the Agus to the camcorder. The downside with this so far has been significant barrel distortion and soft corners. This lens set has a greater magnification than 10x.

Jim Lafferty seems to have arrived at the best combination for his GL1 so keep an eye out for his posts or visit his website which is referred to in several posts on this discussion. He has published a comprehensive how-to which is being continuously updated at -- http://ideaspora.net/agus35/ --.

James. One chemical method of frosting the groundglass apparently yields an excellent fine uniform opaque texture in the glass surface according to a local person I have spoken to who works in art glass.

I haven't gone into it furthur since I was also told the process requires specialised skills and equipment. I was also counselled that it was potentially dangerous for the average home handyman to try and home-brew without prior training.

Appropriately intimidated, I decided to stay with something safe I could control and adjust myself so am playing with the aluminium oxide and the armstrong method for now.

Ohara in Japan can supply CD sized disks with 15mm centre hole and 120mm outer diameter. Do you have in mind buying in a batch for participants here who might forward order and doing a small production run of etching?

[Noah Posnick]

thanks for the thoughtful reply

[Bob Hart]

Noah. I forgot to mention above. Chris the webmaster here has been kind enough to post some Agus35 images for me at -- www.dvinfo.net/media/hart -- There is a test pattern on the bottom of the list for the HOYA stack.

[Bob Hart]

I have sent a .jpg image with a request for Chris webmaster to post. It demonstrates the Century Optics 16:9 anamorphic - Micro Nikkor 55mm lens combination via Agus35 into PD150. When it goes up it will be listed as filename :-

--- agus35 in16.9+some filmlook.JPG ---- at
--- www.dvinfo.net/media/hart ----

The images have also been embellished with post-processing along the lines of the film-look articles published on this site with the exception of the motion blurring and unsharpening thing. The image via this path is soft as it is without need of furthur softening.

[Anders Floe]

Hey!

I have been following the development of the Agus35 almost from the beginning. You are all doing a great job!

I really want to build one for my Canon XL-1, but I don't know what to do about the macro. I have checked out the Century optics, but with the whole thing mounted the camera it gets too huge and a bad balance. So I was thinking about buying the P+S mount for the XL and attach an AGUS35 to this. (this mount is only the price of two diopters). So towards the question:

Do you think that the P+S mount would work with the AGUS35?
Do you know of an alternative?

PS: Has anyone tried a vibrator from a mobilephone to vibrate the GG??

[Seth Richter]

great, so now that i have finally ended a 2 week reading of the posts, I now feel ready to make a go at posting myself..

1) movietube: does anyone know anything more about what it can do? (price, focal length, camera model compatibility, etc.)

2) since it is seems impossible to have a definitive model of the agus35, due to the distances of the gg and lens. How is it possible to have a commercial version? All of the cameras are different in their lens size and other factors.

the only thing i could come up with, is to have separate models for each of the different cameras, or make it adjustable (yuck).

3) the best way to avoid making the camera look like a Tommy gun is by obtaining/making a box design (instead of "cd holder" round), like the people who made the mini50 prototype.

it would be sad to loose such inventive and resourceful filmmakers because of a camera design flaw :(

4) agus, thanks for yours and your fathers (maybe others unnoted) ingenuity. this project has irrupted throughout the entire DV film community, and I hope you are noted somewhere sometime for changing it somehow.


Pretty soon, I will make an attempt at my own (albeit-retrograde) version of the mini35/mini50/agus35 based on what I have learned and continue to learn here..

But Agus, since the real agus 35 does not exist yet. Could you send me a copy of the agus35 for free when it comes out? or share in the vasts mounds of loot when you tag that?

I mean, whats a dollar compared to several million? Cause, your sitting on a goldmine boy! ;) j/k

Just keep in mind that, regardless of the people out there that have the time and technical skills to make their own copies of your design, there are that many more people that simply want to buy one.

p.s. i emailed movietube for more info and have yet to receive a response

[Bob Hart]

P+S Tecknik for their Mini35 would have had to face the same problem of the vast array of camera types and combinations. Getting their groundglass to work would have been the easy part.

Keeping the thing quiet, easily operable, reliable, coming up with the different relay lens combinations, relay lens adaptor combinations, a compact image inverter, a universal base mount, front lens mount combinations, all at a high precision and having them integrate without conflict in a compact functional package is an R & D bill they might well be still recovering, hence the high cost of their product which has a limited market.

The Agus35s achieved so far are putting the basic principle in a box, adapting it to a fixed camera type, one's personal own and hanging a single lens mount on the front. P+S Technik are probably quite amused by what has happened so far, possibly impressed by results achieved so early in this alternative evolution.

Will they will feel threatened if the Agus35 remains at an enthusiast or hobby level. Probably not, but they will be watching and maybe even learning. They won't be fazed by Agus35 operators doing the occasional wedding vid or budget music clip which is about as far as many will take it. The moment a particular Agus35 evolution moves into being a direct marketplace competitor then their patent attorney's collar can be expected to be let slip.

Film-makers having experienced the creative benefit of the appliance via the Agus35s might be more likely to seek the professional level product after they progress to the commercial arena. Reliability, versatility, short set-up times and predictable performance are essential where time and it's efficient management is money and survival.

I've mentioned earlier that if the P+S Technik people are smart, they will act like the software people do and market budget shortform kits of the most recent obsolete generation of the core technology for low budget players to become familiar and comfortable with.

They may not be big enough players to afford to do this and may be a bunch of enthusiasts like ourselves, albeit now a commercial entity instead of a widely dispersed community enabled by modern communications.

It would be interesting to hear their feelings on the Agus35, hopefully in a friendly, colleagial and non-threatening form.