Homemade 35mm Adapter

Don Berube · December 21st, 2003, 03:48 PM

>>>>>>>Don what do you think about a commercial version ? is flipping the image critical ?

Absolutely! Anything less is a compromise. You want as few compromises as possible. You have to define who your target market is... hopefully you set your sights higher than just the people who only want to spend $60.

- don

Peter Sciretta · December 21st, 2003, 03:51 PM

I think, and I could be the minority but I wouldn't think I am... if it is a loss of quality or light steps flipping the image is not needed if you could somehow see the image right side up while you are shooting (ie flipped on a monitor or lcd).

I would rather that then lose quality.

Stewart McDonald · December 21st, 2003, 03:52 PM

Are you using a fresnel lens or macro between your GG and the camera Agus?

Agus Casse · December 21st, 2003, 04:01 PM

Yeah, a magnifying glass actually it is very powerfull i took it off froma wide conversion lens (VCL-0630 S)

Agus Casse · December 21st, 2003, 04:03 PM

Peter i still havent test using Glass, i am sure i will loose lest light with it than with a plastic cd, also the pentaprism or dove prism should be high quality to work...

Stewart McDonald · December 21st, 2003, 04:29 PM

I've got a B+W +10 diopter on order for my GL2. Can't wait to test it out.

Louis Feng · December 21st, 2003, 04:57 PM

I have figured out a static (no moving parts) solution. The test is very promising. I'm still waiting for parts to complete the whole thing. Once complete, I'll have an adapter which:

1. produce upright image
2. smaller (6x10 cm)
3. higher image quality and brighter.

The downside is that the complete cost to produce such adapter will cost a few hundred, might cost more depending on the quality of the coating and glass.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lou....dnm=model.jpg

Don Berube · December 21st, 2003, 05:22 PM

Vendi35 !!!

Sounds interesting. No moving parts though? How is the image plane resolved? Onto what?

Bring it on.

- don

Filip Kovcin · December 21st, 2003, 06:14 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : I think, and I could be the minority but I wouldn't think I am... if it is a loss of quality or light steps flipping the image is not needed if you could somehow see the image right side up while you are shooting (ie flipped on a monitor or lcd).

I would rather that then lose quality. -->>>

peter,
(and others, of course)

i think that there is a place where you can put a prism for inverting!
if the small prism (DOVE PRISM) is mounted as kind of EXPANDER of normal viewfinder (between your eye and a viewfinder) - you will NOT change a picture (quality) at all, you will se everything in a proper way - but you will of course need to flip recorded image after the shooting.
considering small monitor already with the cameras - i think that VERY simple device can be added to commercial version of agus35 - small mirror laying down on one side of "LCD chimney" - so if you are turning your camera monitor bit down - you will look at that mirror which turns everything upside down. so the image foer the viewer will be again proper one.
does this make a sense?

Peter Sciretta · December 21st, 2003, 06:30 PM

For people who don't use the viewfinder as much as a lcd or crt monitor this viewfinder idea is not good. If you're going to do any handheld work we'll need to see an lcd right side up.

As for the mirror LCD idea, I implimented this with my unit weeks ago... this still has the BIG problem that everything is still flipped horrizontally.

Taylor Moore · December 21st, 2003, 07:02 PM

Vendible Book,
Sounds good ...what type of camera are you using??
Looking forward to pix

Louis Feng · December 21st, 2003, 07:38 PM

The limiting factor of the current method (mini35) is the requirement of moving the GG. P+S was able to create something fairly small because they probably machined the parts as small as possible. The sole purpose of the rotating/vibrating GG is to reduce the artifacts produced by the coarseness of the GG.

I have been testing a number of solutions, ground glass and other kind of materials to produce a diffusing surface that is very fine, so fine that it appears to be white to the camera. With such surface, you can project image on to it and there won't be any noticeable artifacts. The result is pretty close, but not yet there. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Filip Kovcin · December 21st, 2003, 08:30 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : As for the mirror LCD idea, I implimented this with my unit weeks ago... this still has the BIG problem that everything is still flipped horrizontally. -->>>

of course, peter - you are absolutelly right. i was too fast with that one.

mea culpa.

filip

Louis Feng · December 21st, 2003, 10:00 PM

This is a very rough test of the my static solution. I am still looking for method to improve the quality. Especially in terms of transmitting more light and to be able to "distribute" more light to the corners. Maybe a frensel lens would help.

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/...=/35mm+adapter

Zac Stein · December 21st, 2003, 11:14 PM

Venible

If you use a screen that is diffuse enough, like the one i decribed to you, it should not need any fresnel, well from the tests i have read of it, it hasn't required one.

Zac

December 21st, 2003, 03:48 PM	#496
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	>>>>>>>Don what do you think about a commercial version ? is flipping the image critical ? Absolutely! Anything less is a compromise. You want as few compromises as possible. You have to define who your target market is... hopefully you set your sights higher than just the people who only want to spend $60. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

December 21st, 2003, 04:01 PM	#499
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	Yeah, a magnifying glass actually it is very powerfull i took it off froma wide conversion lens (VCL-0630 S) __________________ Agus35 - the ultimate tool for indie DV filmakers -

December 21st, 2003, 04:03 PM	#500
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	Peter i still havent test using Glass, i am sure i will loose lest light with it than with a plastic cd, also the pentaprism or dove prism should be high quality to work... __________________ Agus35 - the ultimate tool for indie DV filmakers -

December 21st, 2003, 05:22 PM	#503
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Vendi35 !!! Sounds interesting. No moving parts though? How is the image plane resolved? Onto what? Bring it on. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

December 21st, 2003, 06:14 PM	#504
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	inverting ideas <<<-- Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : I think, and I could be the minority but I wouldn't think I am... if it is a loss of quality or light steps flipping the image is not needed if you could somehow see the image right side up while you are shooting (ie flipped on a monitor or lcd). I would rather that then lose quality. -->>> peter, (and others, of course) i think that there is a place where you can put a prism for inverting! if the small prism (DOVE PRISM) is mounted as kind of EXPANDER of normal viewfinder (between your eye and a viewfinder) - you will NOT change a picture (quality) at all, you will se everything in a proper way - but you will of course need to flip recorded image after the shooting. considering small monitor already with the cameras - i think that VERY simple device can be added to commercial version of agus35 - small mirror laying down on one side of "LCD chimney" - so if you are turning your camera monitor bit down - you will look at that mirror which turns everything upside down. so the image foer the viewer will be again proper one. does this make a sense?

December 21st, 2003, 03:51 PM	#497
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	I think, and I could be the minority but I wouldn't think I am... if it is a loss of quality or light steps flipping the image is not needed if you could somehow see the image right side up while you are shooting (ie flipped on a monitor or lcd). I would rather that then lose quality.

December 21st, 2003, 03:52 PM	#498
Stewart McDonald Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 130	Are you using a fresnel lens or macro between your GG and the camera Agus?

December 21st, 2003, 04:29 PM	#501
Stewart McDonald Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 130	I've got a B+W +10 diopter on order for my GL2. Can't wait to test it out.

December 21st, 2003, 04:57 PM	#502
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	I have figured out a static (no moving parts) solution. The test is very promising. I'm still waiting for parts to complete the whole thing. Once complete, I'll have an adapter which: 1. produce upright image 2. smaller (6x10 cm) 3. higher image quality and brighter. The downside is that the complete cost to produce such adapter will cost a few hundred, might cost more depending on the quality of the coating and glass. http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lou....dnm=model.jpg

December 21st, 2003, 06:30 PM	#505
Peter Sciretta Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 72	For people who don't use the viewfinder as much as a lcd or crt monitor this viewfinder idea is not good. If you're going to do any handheld work we'll need to see an lcd right side up. As for the mirror LCD idea, I implimented this with my unit weeks ago... this still has the BIG problem that everything is still flipped horrizontally.

December 21st, 2003, 07:02 PM	#506
Taylor Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 94	Vendible Book, Sounds good ...what type of camera are you using?? Looking forward to pix

December 21st, 2003, 07:38 PM	#507
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	The limiting factor of the current method (mini35) is the requirement of moving the GG. P+S was able to create something fairly small because they probably machined the parts as small as possible. The sole purpose of the rotating/vibrating GG is to reduce the artifacts produced by the coarseness of the GG. I have been testing a number of solutions, ground glass and other kind of materials to produce a diffusing surface that is very fine, so fine that it appears to be white to the camera. With such surface, you can project image on to it and there won't be any noticeable artifacts. The result is pretty close, but not yet there. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

December 21st, 2003, 08:30 PM	#508
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : As for the mirror LCD idea, I implimented this with my unit weeks ago... this still has the BIG problem that everything is still flipped horrizontally. -->>> of course, peter - you are absolutelly right. i was too fast with that one. mea culpa. filip

December 21st, 2003, 10:00 PM	#509
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	This is a very rough test of the my static solution. I am still looking for method to improve the quality. Especially in terms of transmitting more light and to be able to "distribute" more light to the corners. Maybe a frensel lens would help. http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/...=/35mm+adapter

December 21st, 2003, 11:14 PM	#510
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Venible If you use a screen that is diffuse enough, like the one i decribed to you, it should not need any fresnel, well from the tests i have read of it, it hasn't required one. Zac