Homemade 35mm Adapter

David Garvin · June 11th, 2007, 03:05 PM

Thanks for these, Bob.

Two of the files seem to be the same, however. The first one
http://putstuff.putfile.com/87145/6797357

and the 4th:
http://putstuff.putfile.com/87149/9241206

are both "AGU35APVNEMOTORMOUNT.pdf"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hart

Here's some web addresses to some dated and useless information.

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87145/6797357

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87147/8689395

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87148/6909524

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87149/9241206

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87151/8192538

Bob Hart · June 11th, 2007, 04:56 PM

There seems to be a fashionable phrase around "my bad". I've oft times marched to the beat of my own drum so it becomes "my incompetence". Either way, apologies for duplicating the file - too much haste, will try to find the missing one.

Bob Hart · July 11th, 2007, 12:33 PM

About time to kick the original thread back upstairs where it belongs.

I went along to the product demonstation at Curtin Univeristy hosted by Tino Liberatore (not Tony as previously incorrectly mentioned by me) from P+S Technik and Steve Rice, local film maker.

Screened in the cinema for the session at FTI in Fremantle, was a demo clip for the JVC GY-HD100/Mini35 combination, shot by Steve the previous weekend.

I went along to the shoot at "The Rock" nightclub in Northbridge, Perth to take some shadow of the shoot.

I used a Sony HVR-Z1P with AGUS35 on front. It is not a head-to-head test against the MINI35 as I used an entirely different lens set and had to stay out of the way of the main camera.

Here it is posted for interest of builders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu46tmYmRY0

Optics used were :-

Nikon f1.4 85mm
Nikon f4 12mm - 24mm zoom
Peleng f3.5 8mm fisheye

Zoom movement in the early portion of the clip was compositional adjustment in the relay stage by camcorder zoom, not the Nikon 12mm- 24mm.

The Youtube clip is a bit more gloomy than the actual footage. One day I'll learn to get the dark art of Youtube posting right.

Agustin Vrljicak · July 11th, 2007, 01:25 PM

Rob, I've been reading hundreds of posts and dozens of threads, but I can't seem to find a complete guide on doing a 35mm Adapter. I am willing to do one myself, but can't get to decide what kind of configuration would be the best.
On your opinion, will a rotating or a vibrating GG will give best results? What kind of GG is the best? I will be using a Sony Pd150. Do you think I will need an achromat?
I don't want to bother. If there's a comprised guide on the best configuration of a 35 mm adapter, that would do for me.
Thank you in advance!

Chris Barcellos · July 11th, 2007, 02:11 PM

I'll answer for Rob, if he doesn't get to you. You will need an achromat. I have the VX2000, and it needs one.

Redrockmicro.com has a full set of plans for a spinning adapter. You can modify from there. I built my first adapter using the plans as a guide.

I also now have the Letus35a, which is as close as you can get to a self built, while having someone else do it. It has both a condenser and an achromat, works great with the Vx2000, my FX1, and HV20, the latter two maybe requiring, for optimum performance a little stronger achromat, or an extension tube to allow zooming.

Bob Hart · July 11th, 2007, 10:38 PM

Thanks Chris.

Redrock's published design and the groundglass they supply is probably the best way to go from scratch otherwise there's a lot of wasted time and effort just getting the GG right.

My generic formula for the PD150 and a 24mm wide image off the groundglass.

Nikon lens mount >> (46.5mm to rear face of groundglass) >> groundglass (with aluminium oxide 5 micron finish) >> (approx. 5" or 125mm distance) >> Century Optics 7+ achromatic dioptre >> PD150.

For a closer couple between camera and groundglass you can substitute a stronger dioptre but good ones are hard to find. You need at least 44mm exit pupil on the dioptre or it will vignette. The alternative is to use a 58mm to 72mm step-up ring to fit 72mm diam dioptres made for the Brevis and SGPro. .

My chosen parts are determined by my also fitting a prism pair between the GG and dioptre which requires this distance along the optical axis.

Jim Lafferty also published a design and how-to instruction set on his website but I don't know if it still up. Both the Redrock and his design used electroncs project boxes.

Agustin Vrljicak · July 16th, 2007, 04:25 PM

Ok, so the GG of Redrock will do great. That's good. Now, Bob, what's that "with aluminium oxide 5 micron finish". Is that an another thing I have to add? I heard the GG Redrock gives is just a CD-R. Is it? 'cause I would save the money and buy it from Frys.

"My chosen parts are determined by my also fitting a prism pair between the GG and dioptre which requires this distance along the optical axis."
Is this for flipping the image?
Also... the Century Optics Achromats seem too expensive for my budget. do you think any of theese may do the work? Or do you know of any other solution?
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/cat...hromats_1.html

And I couldn't get the "electroncs project boxes" thing. Is that a brand?
Thanks!

Bob Hart · July 17th, 2007, 12:58 AM

I had a quick look only.

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3719.html

Very likely to vignette as the exit pupil is smaller than 44mm.

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3841.html

Very likely to be okay, depending on condition, but may not get you close enough to the groundglass on max zoom to get inside hotspot.

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3861.html

Might be okay but you would have to experiment with how close or far from the camcorder lens you put it to eliminate the edge distortion. Take care not to allow it to make contact with your PD150 lens otherwise the PD150 lens may be permanently damaged by scratching.

All will likely require an appliance which is 4" or longer from GG to camcorder.

Redrock's disk is already a groundglass and likely to be close to AO5 grade finish. It should require no furthur work. I believe it may be acrylic not glass, so be careful not to scratch it or put fingerprints on it. Protect that groundglass surface like gold.

If it gets dust on it, unless you have a lens brush or canned air, leave the dust there as any polish marks will show as a flicker. The dust will disappear when the disk spins or fly off. Don't go near the groundlgass surrface with a lens pen. Email Redrock to find out for sure.

CD-Rs with a home-made finish are very hard to get an even finish around the entire disk and will likely flicker with a variable density artifact. Easier to buy in the pre-made part.

The newer ones are also of a very durable plastic and harder to get a good surface finish on as they are formulated to resist scratching.

The prism pair is for image flip. The necessary size of the prisms means you need about 5" of optical centre axis. the prisms fold the optical centre axis back on itself, thus shortening the appliance length.

If the path is too short, you can't get the camcorder close enough to the GG, so a 7+ power dioptre is about as strong as you can go for a flip version for the PD150.

A project box is a plastic or aluminium box with a lid which fastens on with four or more small screws. Hobbyists build electronic kits like pre-amplifiers or metal detectors inside of them. Electrical junction boxes are another similar product. I don't know who retails electronic kits in your country.

Jonathan Cantin · July 18th, 2007, 08:40 AM

Hi all! This is my first post and i've been a reader for a few months now so i'm happy to finaly be part of this community! As a francophone from Montréal, please excuse my grammar!

I want to show off my 35mm project I made thanks to you guys. I got the concept out of the mediachance website and all the valuable technical knowledge from all from you.

It is made from 1/4 inch MDF (wood). Made 3 pannels, one for the lens, one for the cd to spin and one for the macro, then I made a box with the rest! Since my mic was hidden by the box, I bought a mic and put in on the box so I have no interference from the mecanism inside the box!

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN3yF...elated&search=

If it dosent work, check out Daref93, I have 2 videos posted! I posted some pics but dont know where they ended up?!?!

Thanks to you all for making this project worth while! I am so happy with the results! Have a nice day and wish you success in your project!

Jonathan

Bob Hart · July 18th, 2007, 01:46 PM

You have every reason to be well pleased with your efforts.

Unless you created your fades with closing the aperture on your front lens, there is some observable pass-through of aerial image during the fades.

You can observe this on the very last few frames of the last fade when the window frame becomes sharp.

This however would also happen if you close the iris for a fade as the depth-of-field would increase at the same time so it may not be pass-through at all - a bit hard to judge on YouTube resolution.

It looks good and that is all that counts.

You have achieved an even finish. I did not detect flicker so the coarse finish and dressing of the disk with hand-lotion seems to have worked well.

Don't alter the adaptor you now have if you seek to improve it. Instead, make a new one so that you can continue to enjoy what you already have.

Jonathan Cantin · July 18th, 2007, 03:01 PM

Hello Bob!

Sanding down the CD to 320 grit, the hand lotion...it did a wonder to my machine. My clip was edited with Premier Pro so all the transitions was from there, color correction was from Magic Bullet in After Effects. Funy you observed this, I never saw it and you are right, it tends to go in focus! I shot this with a handycam, a DCR-HC8! So my next adapter will be for a DVX! (In my dreams!) Thanks for the comments, and thanks too all of you guys who made it possible!

Jonathan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hart

You have every reason to be well pleased with your efforts.

Unless you created your fades with closing the aperture on your front lens, there is some observable pass-through of aerial image during the fades.

You can observe this on the very last few frames of the last fade when the window frame becomes sharp.

This however would also happen if you close the iris for a fade as the depth-of-field would increase at the same time so it may not be pass-through at all - a bit hard to judge on YouTube resolution.

It looks good and that is all that counts.

You have achieved an even finish. I did not detect flicker so the coarse finish and dressing of the disk with hand-lotion seems to have worked well.

Don't alter the adaptor you now have if you seek to improve it. Instead, make a new one so that you can continue to enjoy what you already have.

Bob Hart · August 4th, 2007, 10:15 AM

Do to the good computer now longer being the good computer, I shall be quiet and muted for a while as I have had to revert to the dial-up mule train on an even older one.

Downloads and uploads of clips and long techie messages is out of the question for the time being until the finances permit repair or replacement and time is available to re-install everything. Other priorities compete so it will be a while.

Regards to all.

Bob Hart · August 21st, 2007, 01:48 PM

Here's a link to a prelim version of a clip shot to demo the JVC GY HD100/MINI35 combination at product days at Curtin Uni and FTI Fremantle. The audio is a bit gappy in the last half and this posted version should not be held representative of the final version of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aabJj2EED38

I shot shadow footage of the shoot on the Sony Z!P/AGUS35 which can be found below, a link I have posted previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu46tmYmRY0

I think I may have a little work to do on the AGUS35 yet and my need to wear my close-up glasses next time I want to look at the LCD viewfinder is well demonstrated in my shadow clip.

Bob Hart · August 27th, 2007, 10:43 AM

Here's a link to a low-light test I did whilst also location testing for a project. The lenses used were the Sigma for Nikon f1.8 20mm and the legendary Nikon f1.4 28mm, which is regarded by some as a "noct" lens. It was a loaner. They are pretty heavy costwise.

The brightcove recode seems to have dropped the 16:9 aspect ratio so I will have to re-do it sometime.

http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155181078

Bob Hart · September 7th, 2007, 09:21 AM

If you like easy listening all acoustic music of the Neil Young genre, here's a link to a clip just finished and posted to YouTube.

Techspec :

2 x Sony HVR-Z1P direct-to-camera.
2 x sony HVR-Z1P plus AGUS35.

One AGUS35 was the Century Optics 4+ long setback arrangement.
The other was the Century Optics 7+ close-coupled arrangement.

There was a path alignment problem with the long setback version which will be evident with the f2.8 14mm wide shots. It shows in the YouTube post which is in effect an underscan image. It does not show in the normal TV safe area.

FOOTNOTE: Clip has been taken down from YouTube by the user. I'll post new URL when it is restored.

FOOTNOTE TO FOOTNOTE: The clip has been uploaded to here :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOPz08uLcI

Lenses used were Nikon f1.4 85mm, Nikon f1.2 55mm, Sigma for Nikon f2.8 14mm.

July 11th, 2007, 12:33 PM	#1518
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	About time to kick the original thread back upstairs where it belongs. I went along to the product demonstation at Curtin Univeristy hosted by Tino Liberatore (not Tony as previously incorrectly mentioned by me) from P+S Technik and Steve Rice, local film maker. Screened in the cinema for the session at FTI in Fremantle, was a demo clip for the JVC GY-HD100/Mini35 combination, shot by Steve the previous weekend. I went along to the shoot at "The Rock" nightclub in Northbridge, Perth to take some shadow of the shoot. I used a Sony HVR-Z1P with AGUS35 on front. It is not a head-to-head test against the MINI35 as I used an entirely different lens set and had to stay out of the way of the main camera. Here it is posted for interest of builders. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu46tmYmRY0 Optics used were :- Nikon f1.4 85mm Nikon f4 12mm - 24mm zoom Peleng f3.5 8mm fisheye Zoom movement in the early portion of the clip was compositional adjustment in the relay stage by camcorder zoom, not the Nikon 12mm- 24mm. The Youtube clip is a bit more gloomy than the actual footage. One day I'll learn to get the dark art of Youtube posting right. Last edited by Bob Hart; July 11th, 2007 at 12:39 PM. Reason: error

July 11th, 2007, 02:11 PM	#1520
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I'll answer for Rob, if he doesn't get to you. You will need an achromat. I have the VX2000, and it needs one. Redrockmicro.com has a full set of plans for a spinning adapter. You can modify from there. I built my first adapter using the plans as a guide. I also now have the Letus35a, which is as close as you can get to a self built, while having someone else do it. It has both a condenser and an achromat, works great with the Vx2000, my FX1, and HV20, the latter two maybe requiring, for optimum performance a little stronger achromat, or an extension tube to allow zooming. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 11th, 2007, 10:38 PM	#1521
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Thanks Chris. Redrock's published design and the groundglass they supply is probably the best way to go from scratch otherwise there's a lot of wasted time and effort just getting the GG right. My generic formula for the PD150 and a 24mm wide image off the groundglass. Nikon lens mount >> (46.5mm to rear face of groundglass) >> groundglass (with aluminium oxide 5 micron finish) >> (approx. 5" or 125mm distance) >> Century Optics 7+ achromatic dioptre >> PD150. For a closer couple between camera and groundglass you can substitute a stronger dioptre but good ones are hard to find. You need at least 44mm exit pupil on the dioptre or it will vignette. The alternative is to use a 58mm to 72mm step-up ring to fit 72mm diam dioptres made for the Brevis and SGPro. . My chosen parts are determined by my also fitting a prism pair between the GG and dioptre which requires this distance along the optical axis. Jim Lafferty also published a design and how-to instruction set on his website but I don't know if it still up. Both the Redrock and his design used electroncs project boxes. Last edited by Bob Hart; July 11th, 2007 at 10:42 PM. Reason: error

July 17th, 2007, 12:58 AM	#1523
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I had a quick look only. http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3719.html Very likely to vignette as the exit pupil is smaller than 44mm. http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3841.html Very likely to be okay, depending on condition, but may not get you close enough to the groundglass on max zoom to get inside hotspot. http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3861.html Might be okay but you would have to experiment with how close or far from the camcorder lens you put it to eliminate the edge distortion. Take care not to allow it to make contact with your PD150 lens otherwise the PD150 lens may be permanently damaged by scratching. All will likely require an appliance which is 4" or longer from GG to camcorder. Redrock's disk is already a groundglass and likely to be close to AO5 grade finish. It should require no furthur work. I believe it may be acrylic not glass, so be careful not to scratch it or put fingerprints on it. Protect that groundglass surface like gold. If it gets dust on it, unless you have a lens brush or canned air, leave the dust there as any polish marks will show as a flicker. The dust will disappear when the disk spins or fly off. Don't go near the groundlgass surrface with a lens pen. Email Redrock to find out for sure. CD-Rs with a home-made finish are very hard to get an even finish around the entire disk and will likely flicker with a variable density artifact. Easier to buy in the pre-made part. The newer ones are also of a very durable plastic and harder to get a good surface finish on as they are formulated to resist scratching. The prism pair is for image flip. The necessary size of the prisms means you need about 5" of optical centre axis. the prisms fold the optical centre axis back on itself, thus shortening the appliance length. If the path is too short, you can't get the camcorder close enough to the GG, so a 7+ power dioptre is about as strong as you can go for a flip version for the PD150. A project box is a plastic or aluminium box with a lid which fastens on with four or more small screws. Hobbyists build electronic kits like pre-amplifiers or metal detectors inside of them. Electrical junction boxes are another similar product. I don't know who retails electronic kits in your country. Last edited by Bob Hart; July 17th, 2007 at 01:01 AM. Reason: errors

July 18th, 2007, 08:40 AM	#1524
Jonathan Cantin Tourist Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Montréal, Qc Posts: 2 Images: 6	My 35mm Adapter Hi all! This is my first post and i've been a reader for a few months now so i'm happy to finaly be part of this community! As a francophone from Montréal, please excuse my grammar! I want to show off my 35mm project I made thanks to you guys. I got the concept out of the mediachance website and all the valuable technical knowledge from all from you. It is made from 1/4 inch MDF (wood). Made 3 pannels, one for the lens, one for the cd to spin and one for the macro, then I made a box with the rest! Since my mic was hidden by the box, I bought a mic and put in on the box so I have no interference from the mecanism inside the box! Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN3yF...elated&search= If it dosent work, check out Daref93, I have 2 videos posted! I posted some pics but dont know where they ended up?!?! Thanks to you all for making this project worth while! I am so happy with the results! Have a nice day and wish you success in your project! Jonathan

June 11th, 2007, 04:56 PM	#1517
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	There seems to be a fashionable phrase around "my bad". I've oft times marched to the beat of my own drum so it becomes "my incompetence". Either way, apologies for duplicating the file - too much haste, will try to find the missing one.

July 11th, 2007, 01:25 PM	#1519
Agustin Vrljicak New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Orinda, CA Posts: 15	Rob, I've been reading hundreds of posts and dozens of threads, but I can't seem to find a complete guide on doing a 35mm Adapter. I am willing to do one myself, but can't get to decide what kind of configuration would be the best. On your opinion, will a rotating or a vibrating GG will give best results? What kind of GG is the best? I will be using a Sony Pd150. Do you think I will need an achromat? I don't want to bother. If there's a comprised guide on the best configuration of a 35 mm adapter, that would do for me. Thank you in advance!

July 16th, 2007, 04:25 PM	#1522
Agustin Vrljicak New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Orinda, CA Posts: 15	Ok, so the GG of Redrock will do great. That's good. Now, Bob, what's that "with aluminium oxide 5 micron finish". Is that an another thing I have to add? I heard the GG Redrock gives is just a CD-R. Is it? 'cause I would save the money and buy it from Frys. "My chosen parts are determined by my also fitting a prism pair between the GG and dioptre which requires this distance along the optical axis." Is this for flipping the image? Also... the Century Optics Achromats seem too expensive for my budget. do you think any of theese may do the work? Or do you know of any other solution? http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/cat...hromats_1.html And I couldn't get the "electroncs project boxes" thing. Is that a brand? Thanks!

July 18th, 2007, 01:46 PM	#1525
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	You have every reason to be well pleased with your efforts. Unless you created your fades with closing the aperture on your front lens, there is some observable pass-through of aerial image during the fades. You can observe this on the very last few frames of the last fade when the window frame becomes sharp. This however would also happen if you close the iris for a fade as the depth-of-field would increase at the same time so it may not be pass-through at all - a bit hard to judge on YouTube resolution. It looks good and that is all that counts. You have achieved an even finish. I did not detect flicker so the coarse finish and dressing of the disk with hand-lotion seems to have worked well. Don't alter the adaptor you now have if you seek to improve it. Instead, make a new one so that you can continue to enjoy what you already have. Last edited by Bob Hart; July 18th, 2007 at 01:48 PM. Reason: error

August 4th, 2007, 10:15 AM	#1527
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Do to the good computer now longer being the good computer, I shall be quiet and muted for a while as I have had to revert to the dial-up mule train on an even older one. Downloads and uploads of clips and long techie messages is out of the question for the time being until the finances permit repair or replacement and time is available to re-install everything. Other priorities compete so it will be a while. Regards to all.

August 21st, 2007, 01:48 PM	#1528
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Sony Z1p/agus35 Versus Jvc Gy Hd100/mini35 Here's a link to a prelim version of a clip shot to demo the JVC GY HD100/MINI35 combination at product days at Curtin Uni and FTI Fremantle. The audio is a bit gappy in the last half and this posted version should not be held representative of the final version of the clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aabJj2EED38 I shot shadow footage of the shoot on the Sony Z!P/AGUS35 which can be found below, a link I have posted previously. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu46tmYmRY0 I think I may have a little work to do on the AGUS35 yet and my need to wear my close-up glasses next time I want to look at the LCD viewfinder is well demonstrated in my shadow clip. Last edited by Bob Hart; August 21st, 2007 at 01:57 PM. Reason: added text

August 27th, 2007, 10:43 AM	#1529
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Here's a link to a low-light test I did whilst also location testing for a project. The lenses used were the Sigma for Nikon f1.8 20mm and the legendary Nikon f1.4 28mm, which is regarded by some as a "noct" lens. It was a loaner. They are pretty heavy costwise. The brightcove recode seems to have dropped the 16:9 aspect ratio so I will have to re-do it sometime. http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155181078 Last edited by Bob Hart; August 27th, 2007 at 10:46 AM. Reason: error

September 7th, 2007, 09:21 AM	#1530
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	If you like easy listening all acoustic music of the Neil Young genre, here's a link to a clip just finished and posted to YouTube. Techspec : 2 x Sony HVR-Z1P direct-to-camera. 2 x sony HVR-Z1P plus AGUS35. One AGUS35 was the Century Optics 4+ long setback arrangement. The other was the Century Optics 7+ close-coupled arrangement. There was a path alignment problem with the long setback version which will be evident with the f2.8 14mm wide shots. It shows in the YouTube post which is in effect an underscan image. It does not show in the normal TV safe area. FOOTNOTE: Clip has been taken down from YouTube by the user. I'll post new URL when it is restored. FOOTNOTE TO FOOTNOTE: The clip has been uploaded to here :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOPz08uLcI Lenses used were Nikon f1.4 85mm, Nikon f1.2 55mm, Sigma for Nikon f2.8 14mm. Last edited by Bob Hart; September 8th, 2007 at 08:03 AM. Reason: Furthur corrections to this post.