New camera project! Need help with a few things...

Steven Mingam · December 10th, 2008, 04:28 AM

Well I was talking about the Elphel because with little work (way less than re-designing an entire camera) you could have it PC-less. It already record directly to disk, so with some empty pins on the extension boards, or a hacked usb-keyboard, you could easily control it without the ethernet hassle. Just a bit of software programming... which is less time consuming. If I had some money I would buy an elphel and start hacking it but I'm dead broke :P
At least it already deliver pictures as it is.

Sebastian Pichelhofer · December 10th, 2008, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

Hi steven,

Thanks for the maths and the answer for the A/D converter. Those numbers are for raw data but is it the same for DNG files?

I've already considered SSD disks. It's probably the best option.

No, I don't want an Elphel. I want to build a pc-less camera with its own lcd and controls.

You might not want the Elphel camera of the past, but you will want the future Elphel Vision camera that is currently being developed:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/975061-post1000.html

open source of course!

Jose A. Garcia · December 10th, 2008, 08:52 AM

Looks good, but it still has a 1/3" sensor and compressed RGB out. The Elphel is a great camera. It's like the only camera project here that's still alive and getting better every year. It gives a great image, full control over the sensor and it's quite close to become an independent camera, but still lacks a few features needed for cinema work.

By the way, it's now confirmed that the first version of the camera will have a Kodak 2/3" CCD with anti-blooming, low smear and 60fps.

Now we have to focus on the diagram I posted. Is that everything the camera needs? What's missing? What's wrong? What would be the perfect FPGA to use?

Sebastian Pichelhofer · December 11th, 2008, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

Looks good, but it still has a 1/3" sensor and compressed RGB out. The Elphel is a great camera. It's like the only camera project here that's still alive and getting better every year. It gives a great image, full control over the sensor and it's quite close to become an independent camera, but still lacks a few features needed for cinema work.

By the way, it's now confirmed that the first version of the camera will have a Kodak 2/3" CCD with anti-blooming, low smear and 60fps.

Now we have to focus on the diagram I posted. Is that everything the camera needs? What's missing? What's wrong? What would be the perfect FPGA to use?

If everything goes well the next Elphel camera will be the first video camera with an APS-C sized sensor.

I already demonstrated an "almost" uncompressed RAW video workflow here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/947828-post970.html
Not very production friendly but as a proof-of-concept it worked quite well.

But you are right, there are still many things to do. But we won't give up ;)

Jose A. Garcia · December 11th, 2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian Pichelhofer

If everything goes well the next Elphel camera will be the first video camera with an APS-C sized sensor.

Mmm... That sounds really good.

Jose A. Garcia · December 17th, 2008, 06:02 PM

Still working on the camera! Does anyone know of options to include high quality audio recording?

John Wyatt · December 18th, 2008, 05:33 AM

I got a reasonable price digital sound recorder earlier this year called the Zoom H2 which which can do 48 kHz at 16 or 24-bit (or even at 96 kHz if you need that). Records to SD or SDHC memory cards and just needs 2x AA batteries (alkaline or re-chargeables), or can take power from the mains. Has a USB connection for dumping files or connecting to a computer as an external mic (I haven't gone into that functionality). Has a standard tripod thread on the bottom so you can fix it to a camera tripod or mic stand. Very light unit, onboard mic is quite good but you could plug in another. Would need to adopt syncing method (like traditional clapperboard) if the unit is not locked in some way to the camera.

Samuel Hinterlang · December 19th, 2008, 10:46 PM

I'd agree with the basic theme John has. Just find a way to record the audio in a standard way and sync in post. I've had enough times I was doing that for mic'ing several people or got a mix from and audio engineer and never had an issue getting the audio to just plop down. If there is a time difference, it'll only go out of sync over really long runs.

John Wyatt · January 23rd, 2009, 03:21 PM

Jose -- anything new with the camera project?

Jose A. Garcia · January 23rd, 2009, 07:19 PM

Still working on it. These things take their time. I'll post news as soon as I can.

John Wyatt · January 24th, 2009, 07:24 AM

Thanks, look forward to hearing your progress.
John.

Jose A. Garcia · February 28th, 2009, 10:23 AM

Hi all,

I'm very proud to present the very first official images shot with our camera! Of course this is all work in progress and we don't even have white balance included yet, but it's a huge step for us since these images have been captured using our own hardware and software, so we're getting closer each day.

http://www.cus-cus.net/cameratests/screencap01.jpg
http://www.cus-cus.net/cameratests/screencap02.jpg

These images are directly from the sensor. No alteration has been done besides converting them to JPG. They were taken with my Computar 12-75mm megapixel zoom.

For now I can say we're very happy with the initial tests. The noise levels from the Kodak sensor are amazingly low even in very low light situations and we're getting new and better results everyday.

I'll post low light, DOF and detail tests as soon as I can.

John Wyatt · March 1st, 2009, 05:28 AM

Thanks for posting those frame grabs!

Are you shooting a DNG sequence as originally planned?

Jose A. Garcia · March 1st, 2009, 09:26 AM

As I said, these images were just extracted from the sensor using one of the first versions of the software and converted to JPG.

I can't answer to more questions for now because I'm only part of the project as a consultant, but I'll keep you updated on a regular basis.

Jose A. Garcia · April 17th, 2009, 04:49 AM

Hi all,

I'm sorry I didn't pay attention to this thread lately. We've been going through a lot of stuff.

The camera we were developing now has a name and it's becoming something big. We already have a couple more threads started in other forums with good results.

Now let me introduce to you THE SPARTA (Cineraw - Sparta)

The Sparta is (as you may know from previous posts) a new cinema camera with a single 2/3" CCD giving beautiful DSLR like images at up to 60fps and recording them to selectable raw DNG 12bit or PNG 8bit format using solid state disks.

If you take a look at the page, you'll find all info available to the public in a PDF document. For anything else, just post here or mail me.

Thanks.

February 28th, 2009, 10:23 AM	#27
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Big update!! First images!! Hi all, I'm very proud to present the very first official images shot with our camera! Of course this is all work in progress and we don't even have white balance included yet, but it's a huge step for us since these images have been captured using our own hardware and software, so we're getting closer each day. http://www.cus-cus.net/cameratests/screencap01.jpg http://www.cus-cus.net/cameratests/screencap02.jpg These images are directly from the sensor. No alteration has been done besides converting them to JPG. They were taken with my Computar 12-75mm megapixel zoom. For now I can say we're very happy with the initial tests. The noise levels from the Kodak sensor are amazingly low even in very low light situations and we're getting new and better results everyday. I'll post low light, DOF and detail tests as soon as I can. __________________ Jose A. Garcia - Freelance camera operator, web designer and VFX artist - http://www.sinproblema.net/

March 1st, 2009, 09:26 AM	#29
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	As I said, these images were just extracted from the sensor using one of the first versions of the software and converted to JPG. I can't answer to more questions for now because I'm only part of the project as a consultant, but I'll keep you updated on a regular basis. __________________ Jose A. Garcia - Freelance camera operator, web designer and VFX artist - http://www.sinproblema.net/

April 17th, 2009, 04:49 AM	#30
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Lots of news! Hi all, I'm sorry I didn't pay attention to this thread lately. We've been going through a lot of stuff. The camera we were developing now has a name and it's becoming something big. We already have a couple more threads started in other forums with good results. Now let me introduce to you THE SPARTA (Cineraw - Sparta) The Sparta is (as you may know from previous posts) a new cinema camera with a single 2/3" CCD giving beautiful DSLR like images at up to 60fps and recording them to selectable raw DNG 12bit or PNG 8bit format using solid state disks. If you take a look at the page, you'll find all info available to the public in a PDF document. For anything else, just post here or mail me. Thanks. __________________ Jose A. Garcia - Freelance camera operator, web designer and VFX artist - http://www.sinproblema.net/

December 10th, 2008, 04:28 AM	#16
Steven Mingam Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 91	Well I was talking about the Elphel because with little work (way less than re-designing an entire camera) you could have it PC-less. It already record directly to disk, so with some empty pins on the extension boards, or a hacked usb-keyboard, you could easily control it without the ethernet hassle. Just a bit of software programming... which is less time consuming. If I had some money I would buy an elphel and start hacking it but I'm dead broke :P At least it already deliver pictures as it is.

December 10th, 2008, 08:52 AM	#18
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Looks good, but it still has a 1/3" sensor and compressed RGB out. The Elphel is a great camera. It's like the only camera project here that's still alive and getting better every year. It gives a great image, full control over the sensor and it's quite close to become an independent camera, but still lacks a few features needed for cinema work. By the way, it's now confirmed that the first version of the camera will have a Kodak 2/3" CCD with anti-blooming, low smear and 60fps. Now we have to focus on the diagram I posted. Is that everything the camera needs? What's missing? What's wrong? What would be the perfect FPGA to use?

December 17th, 2008, 06:02 PM	#21
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Still working on the camera! Does anyone know of options to include high quality audio recording?

December 18th, 2008, 05:33 AM	#22
John Wyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Country, UK Posts: 141	I got a reasonable price digital sound recorder earlier this year called the Zoom H2 which which can do 48 kHz at 16 or 24-bit (or even at 96 kHz if you need that). Records to SD or SDHC memory cards and just needs 2x AA batteries (alkaline or re-chargeables), or can take power from the mains. Has a USB connection for dumping files or connecting to a computer as an external mic (I haven't gone into that functionality). Has a standard tripod thread on the bottom so you can fix it to a camera tripod or mic stand. Very light unit, onboard mic is quite good but you could plug in another. Would need to adopt syncing method (like traditional clapperboard) if the unit is not locked in some way to the camera.

December 19th, 2008, 10:46 PM	#23
Samuel Hinterlang Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 79	I'd agree with the basic theme John has. Just find a way to record the audio in a standard way and sync in post. I've had enough times I was doing that for mic'ing several people or got a mix from and audio engineer and never had an issue getting the audio to just plop down. If there is a time difference, it'll only go out of sync over really long runs.

January 23rd, 2009, 03:21 PM	#24
John Wyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Country, UK Posts: 141	Jose -- anything new with the camera project?

January 23rd, 2009, 07:19 PM	#25
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Still working on it. These things take their time. I'll post news as soon as I can.

January 24th, 2009, 07:24 AM	#26
John Wyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Country, UK Posts: 141	Thanks, look forward to hearing your progress. John.

March 1st, 2009, 05:28 AM	#28
John Wyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Country, UK Posts: 141	Thanks for posting those frame grabs! Are you shooting a DNG sequence as originally planned?