What's the best adapter for HV20? - Is anyone selling one?

Igor Babic · April 28th, 2008, 09:14 AM

Engage peaking. It will help you focusing alot on an HV20 LCD. Peaking does not goes to video out to external monitor. Focus assist dont work when you press record. Use usual workaround for auto gain.
Happy shooting.

Jose A. Garcia · April 28th, 2008, 09:31 AM

You're right. It helps a lot! Thanks!

Igor Babic · April 28th, 2008, 12:45 PM

See this, 7" monitors are on the edge of practicality. Bigger then this is unpractical for medium run and gun, smaller is much better but very rare in high res. Sorry for off topic, just my 2cents on focusing.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=116597

Jose A. Garcia · April 28th, 2008, 01:36 PM

It's not off-topic at all. We're discussing focusing methods and little external high res monitors are the easiest reliable way for run&gun. As you say going bigger is useless if you want mobility. In fact I've got two 24" FullHD monitors. I'm sure I can get tack sharp focus with one of those (lol), but then who carries it while I'm shooting?

Jose A. Garcia · April 29th, 2008, 11:51 AM

Ok, so while I'm waiting for those indiRails to come, I'm doing a few basic test shots with the Brevis. Great product Dennis! I'm really happy with it. Now, for the project:

First of all I'm seriously considering my EOS 28-90 F3.5-5 for this project. Why?

- My FD primes give more quality and they're also faster, but this is a zoom, which means no need to change lenses (I want a run&gun setup). It also covers almost any focal lenght I can shoot with my primes (appart from 100mm).

- I don't want my clips to look like one of those DOF tests with everything out of focus but a small plane. Even if I used my primes I'd shoot with a F3.5 or F4 which looks even more like standard cinema.

- I find it much easier to focus with the EOS zoom. The distance in the focus ring from end to end is shorter than the FD lens, so you really notice when the image is in focus.

So what do you think?

Jose A. Garcia · April 29th, 2008, 11:58 AM

Ok, so now I've got a big problem.

All EOS lenses I've tried vignette A LOT!

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks.

EDIT: When I say they vignette a lot I mean I cannot zoom more to avoid vignetting because the image goes all blurry.

Igor Babic · April 29th, 2008, 02:41 PM

I have CF1L on my Brevis and HV20, and only one that vignetes alot is 28 f2.8 prime and zoom 19-35 f3,5-f4,5. Usualy all lenses that has small glass diameter on rear part of glass, vignetes. If you realy have CF1 you should not have those problems anyway. Try to see with Dennis whats going on. He has alot of Canon lenses. On my home brew adapter with canon ee-a screen vigneting happens when I close my lenses over f5.

I have just receive Sigma 24-70 EX DG macro constant f2,8. Perfect lens for run and gun. Sharp, wide and you have all you need in one lens. It looks and feels like regular ENG lens, and almost dont vignets at all on canon screen. Here is on last weekends action, on my homebrew, sorry no footage.

Jose A. Garcia · April 29th, 2008, 03:56 PM

I'm pretty sure I've got a CF1L on my Brevis. That's what I ordered anyway.

I tried a 28-80mm F3.5-5.6, a 28-90mm F4-5.6, a 70-300mm and (just for fun) a 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 EFS (I know this one HAS to show vignetting). All of them are EF and all of them show a great amount of vignetting.

Igor, how much can you zoom on the ground glass before it goes all blurry?

By the way, your setup looks great!

Igor Babic · April 30th, 2008, 01:27 AM

If is CF1L, then is for larger cameras then HV20, and thats why all those slow zooms vignetes. 35mm f2.8 is slowest and widest that you can use without very visible vigneting as far I have seen. I can zoom on both my adapters just enough to cover screen size, and some more before goes to blurr. This is enough if you have well centered system with wright gg (if its not its on the edge of blurr). BTW, how much off axis is your HV20, with mine I have made adapter that can center much more then on brevis achromat mount, and my homebrew has much more room for this adjusting. This helps me alot to have full SLR35 frame cover.
Next couple of days we will shoot on Brevis&CF1L with that sigma and I will post how it goes.

Thanks. This setup is result of our search for run and gun.

Jose A. Garcia · April 30th, 2008, 04:48 AM

Ok, my mistake. It's a CF1. This is an extract from my invoice:

1 x Step up ring set - 43-72mm () = $19.00
1 x *Brevis35 MP.1 Imaging Bundle (non-flipped) (MP.1) = $1,149.00
Imaging Element CF1 (small cameras)
Mount Type Canon EOS
Rails System No Rails System
1 x Canon FD lens mount () = $64.00

I've read some lenses are not very good for adapter use. It looks like I've got them all. One thing I can say is that the back glass diameter in all my EOS lenses is much smaller than my FDs. I did a bit of research on your Sigma lens and it looks just great for run&gun. I'll probably buy it as soon as I can.

By the way, if you don't mind me asking, where did you buy your up handle?

Thanks!

Jose A. Garcia · April 30th, 2008, 04:53 AM

About my camera being off axis, this is my first experience with adapters and I didn't know that was a common problem. Now that you mention it sounds logical. Mine looks quite centered, everything looks in place and well screwed, but who knows.

Igor Babic · April 30th, 2008, 08:08 AM

Off axis or xy position is problem with alot of HV20 and some of HVX200. I am glad that you dont have it, or new revisions of Brevis has wider back diameter for adjusting (actually, I have found that only 1.5mm bigger is enough when I have made my adapter)

Here is Info on my handle:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=116991
on the end of my post #12.
Indierails and HV20 user forum member Shrigg are making some upside down rig for DIY adapters:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=8827
This way its maybe easier to mount handle, and you already have piece of it...

Sigma is probably most cheaper on ebay seller hkbns. Shipping is very fast with fedex. (probably under 7 days for you) Its is macro lens so you can make wide shots with very shallow DOF. You can focus under 40 cm, whatever they say...

We have made alot lighter rail upside down mount with manfrotto parts and 16mm rods from hardware store. I will post picture tomorrow.

Dennis Wood · April 30th, 2008, 04:25 PM

Jose, the CF1 and HV20 should show no vignetting, unless the lens is on the very slow side. For example, an f2.8 35-70 should show full frames with no vignetting. An f3.5 to f5 is getting a bit slow, but I'd expect it to be OK. If you can, upload a frame grab or two of a 50mm in the f2 area just to make sure a CF1Le didn't get shipped by mistake in your unit.

We have a newer HV20 here with much better CMOS centering than a 1 1/2 year old version...so perhaps Canon has addressed the issue. The Brevis flip has two XY adjustments that keep the achromat perfectly centered on the camera, while allowing you to center the projected image. The non-flip has one point of adjustment in a similar fashion.

Jose A. Garcia · May 1st, 2008, 01:09 PM

Dennis, I don't know if it's my problem or not but I've zoomed to the maximum point before it starts blurring and my FD 50mm F1.4 vignettes. I'm starting to think I've got a CF1L. I'll post a clip in a few minutes.

http://www.cus-cus.net/VignetteTestFD50mmF1.4.avi

Jose A. Garcia · May 2nd, 2008, 08:48 AM

First day of shooting! Everything went perfect but now I'm capturing and all footage shows vignetting. I shot this using the same FD 50mm F1.4 I used yesterday because it's the fastest lens I have. Dennis, I need help and soon!!

April 29th, 2008, 02:41 PM	#22
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	I have CF1L on my Brevis and HV20, and only one that vignetes alot is 28 f2.8 prime and zoom 19-35 f3,5-f4,5. Usualy all lenses that has small glass diameter on rear part of glass, vignetes. If you realy have CF1 you should not have those problems anyway. Try to see with Dennis whats going on. He has alot of Canon lenses. On my home brew adapter with canon ee-a screen vigneting happens when I close my lenses over f5. I have just receive Sigma 24-70 EX DG macro constant f2,8. Perfect lens for run and gun. Sharp, wide and you have all you need in one lens. It looks and feels like regular ENG lens, and almost dont vignets at all on canon screen. Here is on last weekends action, on my homebrew, sorry no footage. Attached Thumbnails

May 1st, 2008, 01:09 PM	#29
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Dennis, I don't know if it's my problem or not but I've zoomed to the maximum point before it starts blurring and my FD 50mm F1.4 vignettes. I'm starting to think I've got a CF1L. I'll post a clip in a few minutes. http://www.cus-cus.net/VignetteTestFD50mmF1.4.avi Last edited by Jose A. Garcia; May 1st, 2008 at 03:49 PM.

April 28th, 2008, 09:14 AM	#16
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Engage peaking. It will help you focusing alot on an HV20 LCD. Peaking does not goes to video out to external monitor. Focus assist dont work when you press record. Use usual workaround for auto gain. Happy shooting.

April 28th, 2008, 09:31 AM	#17
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	You're right. It helps a lot! Thanks!

April 28th, 2008, 12:45 PM	#18
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	See this, 7" monitors are on the edge of practicality. Bigger then this is unpractical for medium run and gun, smaller is much better but very rare in high res. Sorry for off topic, just my 2cents on focusing. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=116597

April 28th, 2008, 01:36 PM	#19
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	It's not off-topic at all. We're discussing focusing methods and little external high res monitors are the easiest reliable way for run&gun. As you say going bigger is useless if you want mobility. In fact I've got two 24" FullHD monitors. I'm sure I can get tack sharp focus with one of those (lol), but then who carries it while I'm shooting?

April 29th, 2008, 11:51 AM	#20
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Ok, so while I'm waiting for those indiRails to come, I'm doing a few basic test shots with the Brevis. Great product Dennis! I'm really happy with it. Now, for the project: First of all I'm seriously considering my EOS 28-90 F3.5-5 for this project. Why? - My FD primes give more quality and they're also faster, but this is a zoom, which means no need to change lenses (I want a run&gun setup). It also covers almost any focal lenght I can shoot with my primes (appart from 100mm). - I don't want my clips to look like one of those DOF tests with everything out of focus but a small plane. Even if I used my primes I'd shoot with a F3.5 or F4 which looks even more like standard cinema. - I find it much easier to focus with the EOS zoom. The distance in the focus ring from end to end is shorter than the FD lens, so you really notice when the image is in focus. So what do you think?

April 29th, 2008, 11:58 AM	#21
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Ok, so now I've got a big problem. All EOS lenses I've tried vignette A LOT! Am I doing something wrong? Thanks. EDIT: When I say they vignette a lot I mean I cannot zoom more to avoid vignetting because the image goes all blurry.

April 29th, 2008, 03:56 PM	#23
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	I'm pretty sure I've got a CF1L on my Brevis. That's what I ordered anyway. I tried a 28-80mm F3.5-5.6, a 28-90mm F4-5.6, a 70-300mm and (just for fun) a 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 EFS (I know this one HAS to show vignetting). All of them are EF and all of them show a great amount of vignetting. Igor, how much can you zoom on the ground glass before it goes all blurry? By the way, your setup looks great!

April 30th, 2008, 01:27 AM	#24
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	If is CF1L, then is for larger cameras then HV20, and thats why all those slow zooms vignetes. 35mm f2.8 is slowest and widest that you can use without very visible vigneting as far I have seen. I can zoom on both my adapters just enough to cover screen size, and some more before goes to blurr. This is enough if you have well centered system with wright gg (if its not its on the edge of blurr). BTW, how much off axis is your HV20, with mine I have made adapter that can center much more then on brevis achromat mount, and my homebrew has much more room for this adjusting. This helps me alot to have full SLR35 frame cover. Next couple of days we will shoot on Brevis&CF1L with that sigma and I will post how it goes. Thanks. This setup is result of our search for run and gun.

April 30th, 2008, 04:48 AM	#25
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Ok, my mistake. It's a CF1. This is an extract from my invoice: 1 x Step up ring set - 43-72mm () = $19.00 1 x *Brevis35 MP.1 Imaging Bundle (non-flipped) (MP.1) = $1,149.00 Imaging Element CF1 (small cameras) Mount Type Canon EOS Rails System No Rails System 1 x Canon FD lens mount () = $64.00 I've read some lenses are not very good for adapter use. It looks like I've got them all. One thing I can say is that the back glass diameter in all my EOS lenses is much smaller than my FDs. I did a bit of research on your Sigma lens and it looks just great for run&gun. I'll probably buy it as soon as I can. By the way, if you don't mind me asking, where did you buy your up handle? Thanks!

April 30th, 2008, 04:53 AM	#26
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	About my camera being off axis, this is my first experience with adapters and I didn't know that was a common problem. Now that you mention it sounds logical. Mine looks quite centered, everything looks in place and well screwed, but who knows.

April 30th, 2008, 08:08 AM	#27
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Off axis or xy position is problem with alot of HV20 and some of HVX200. I am glad that you dont have it, or new revisions of Brevis has wider back diameter for adjusting (actually, I have found that only 1.5mm bigger is enough when I have made my adapter) Here is Info on my handle: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=116991 on the end of my post #12. Indierails and HV20 user forum member Shrigg are making some upside down rig for DIY adapters: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=8827 This way its maybe easier to mount handle, and you already have piece of it... Sigma is probably most cheaper on ebay seller hkbns. Shipping is very fast with fedex. (probably under 7 days for you) Its is macro lens so you can make wide shots with very shallow DOF. You can focus under 40 cm, whatever they say... We have made alot lighter rail upside down mount with manfrotto parts and 16mm rods from hardware store. I will post picture tomorrow.

April 30th, 2008, 04:25 PM	#28
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Jose, the CF1 and HV20 should show no vignetting, unless the lens is on the very slow side. For example, an f2.8 35-70 should show full frames with no vignetting. An f3.5 to f5 is getting a bit slow, but I'd expect it to be OK. If you can, upload a frame grab or two of a 50mm in the f2 area just to make sure a CF1Le didn't get shipped by mistake in your unit. We have a newer HV20 here with much better CMOS centering than a 1 1/2 year old version...so perhaps Canon has addressed the issue. The Brevis flip has two XY adjustments that keep the achromat perfectly centered on the camera, while allowing you to center the projected image. The non-flip has one point of adjustment in a similar fashion.

May 2nd, 2008, 08:48 AM	#30
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	First day of shooting! Everything went perfect but now I'm capturing and all footage shows vignetting. I shot this using the same FD 50mm F1.4 I used yesterday because it's the fastest lens I have. Dennis, I need help and soon!!