35mm adapters: DIY vs. The Big Boys (Brevis, Letus, Redrock, etc.)

Ted Ramasola · April 4th, 2008, 10:50 PM

Igor,

sent you a PM.

Ted

Yang Wen · April 5th, 2008, 12:50 AM

Haven't seen an easy way for a DIY adapter that has flip module included...

Letus all the way man. That red button is cool as hell too.

Greg Bates · April 6th, 2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hart

The ultimate test of any adaptor is whether one can have the confidence to hang the resources of an entire movie project upon it working properly through the whole shoot.

Two music videos and fourteen (relatively troublefree) hours of behind the scenes footage of local projects later, I yet have to confess, I would not committ a project to my adaptor.

The principle R&D posted here was, let's face it, essentially reverse engineering of P+S and Movietube products. This does not detract from the efforts of contributions of anyone.

It has been interesting to see just how close to the commercial products the specifications have shaken down to.

Equally interesting has been P+S Technik's response with the Mini35 "Compact", to the camera and software industries' accommodation of the simpler adaptors by enabling image flip in-camera, in post and to the superior lower light loss of some of the alternative adaptors.

The whole groundglass image relay thing apparently goes back to the mid fifties when a design was made in the UK for 35mm relay to broadcast television cameras. This was posted on a cinemtographer's website.

I guess it depends on your budget. If my budget were big and allowed me to rent say a Varicam or Red, then an adapter would not really be an issue. But if we're being real here most of us are shooting low budget indie personal projects or under 25k videos etc. That said if you're adapter stops working you simply use your camera without it. I mean an adapter is a aesthetic luxury. I know people will disagree because there not cheap, but what did you do before you had an adapter? Some of my problems with the Brevis were the result of Panasonics crappy engineering, garnering an off center ccd block...what part of the game is that!? But hey that means I can't use a 14mm lens on the Brevis...too bad...before the Brevis I couldn't use a 14mm lens on my HVX. I'm not sure what the point of thread is now. Original question, can you DIY better than the commercially available adapters. Rich says yeah...I say no, and I have not seen the footage to prove it. And even if you can every new gen of camera is gonna create it's own challenge until the Scarlett eliminates the need to have an adaptor in the first place. Oh yeah and i've seen plenty of complaints on the soft image of the Movie Tube and P+S and their black hole light loss. Gimme my LEX and ability to shoot when and where I want any time of day or night. Flame on.

Bob Hart · April 7th, 2008, 01:59 AM

No flame-retardant needed.

My reservations about risking the time and efforts of a volunteer crew for a low-no budget project are no less pronounced than if the project is a funded one.

The groundglass adaptor aesthetic value-adding requires other value adding in the form of better lighting etc., otherwise what is the point of it. Then comes the dilemma.

The effort and cost involved may not be any less than for a high-definition or film project, so does one then do justice by using a cheaper camera-adaptor combination.

A counterargument is that without the camera-adaptor combination and the aethetic it enables, the project might not otherwise happen.

Regardless of any argument, any groundglass device, even a Pringles can with a plastic shop bag GG enables people to experiment and become accustomed to 35mm lenses and just what they can bring to the creative effort and there is a certain smug satisfaction in having got it to work.

In the not too distant future I may get the DNA from my sweaty palms all over a Letus Extreme. It will be interesting to do a side-by-side with the Mini35-400 and my own gadget on the same camera.

As for the Varicam. If I had my hot greasy mitts on that for long enough, it would wear a Letus35 or Mini35 or my own device too if I could get them to fit and work properly on it.

RED and Scarlett the daughter, may remain outside of the affordable realm until real economies can be had in the post-production environment. There is life left in groundglass relay for a little while yet.

Greg Bates · April 7th, 2008, 09:12 AM

I'm in agreement with you Bob 99.9% and the .1% doesn't warrant an argument in the least. I did a couple of diy's guided by users on this site...and...well...let's just say I became a user of commercial units:)

Rich Hibner · April 9th, 2008, 03:28 PM

here's the footage and adapter to "prove it". strictly DIY and probably the best footage I've seen from an adapter.

http://www.stage6.com/user/fss328/vi...7/allstar-35HD
http://allstar-cine.myweb.hinet.net/...5%20HD.htm

Dennis Wood · April 9th, 2008, 05:36 PM

DIY is the absolute best way to learn IMHO, and from my prespective, very rewarding. What I discovered very early though is that getting accuracy down to the +- .001" mark is extremely difficult, if not impossible, without CNC equipment and a whole lot of quality control. With our latest version, the MP.1, implementing microprocessor control was a process I would not have dreamed of from the DIY world .... and in our case only possible due to the great support we've had from our customers.

If you're into experimentation, don't mind spending a few bucks, and time is not an issue, I say give DIY a go.

April 4th, 2008, 10:50 PM	#16
Ted Ramasola Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Allen, Texas U.S.A Posts: 1,117	Igor, sent you a PM. Ted

April 5th, 2008, 12:50 AM	#17
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	Haven't seen an easy way for a DIY adapter that has flip module included... Letus all the way man. That red button is cool as hell too.

April 7th, 2008, 01:59 AM	#19
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	No flame-retardant needed. My reservations about risking the time and efforts of a volunteer crew for a low-no budget project are no less pronounced than if the project is a funded one. The groundglass adaptor aesthetic value-adding requires other value adding in the form of better lighting etc., otherwise what is the point of it. Then comes the dilemma. The effort and cost involved may not be any less than for a high-definition or film project, so does one then do justice by using a cheaper camera-adaptor combination. A counterargument is that without the camera-adaptor combination and the aethetic it enables, the project might not otherwise happen. Regardless of any argument, any groundglass device, even a Pringles can with a plastic shop bag GG enables people to experiment and become accustomed to 35mm lenses and just what they can bring to the creative effort and there is a certain smug satisfaction in having got it to work. In the not too distant future I may get the DNA from my sweaty palms all over a Letus Extreme. It will be interesting to do a side-by-side with the Mini35-400 and my own gadget on the same camera. As for the Varicam. If I had my hot greasy mitts on that for long enough, it would wear a Letus35 or Mini35 or my own device too if I could get them to fit and work properly on it. RED and Scarlett the daughter, may remain outside of the affordable realm until real economies can be had in the post-production environment. There is life left in groundglass relay for a little while yet.

April 7th, 2008, 09:12 AM	#20
Greg Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 186	I'm in agreement with you Bob 99.9% and the .1% doesn't warrant an argument in the least. I did a couple of diy's guided by users on this site...and...well...let's just say I became a user of commercial units:)

April 9th, 2008, 03:28 PM	#21
Rich Hibner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 218 Images: 1	here's the footage and adapter to "prove it". strictly DIY and probably the best footage I've seen from an adapter. http://www.stage6.com/user/fss328/vi...7/allstar-35HD http://allstar-cine.myweb.hinet.net/...5%20HD.htm

April 9th, 2008, 05:36 PM	#22
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	DIY is the absolute best way to learn IMHO, and from my prespective, very rewarding. What I discovered very early though is that getting accuracy down to the +- .001" mark is extremely difficult, if not impossible, without CNC equipment and a whole lot of quality control. With our latest version, the MP.1, implementing microprocessor control was a process I would not have dreamed of from the DIY world .... and in our case only possible due to the great support we've had from our customers. If you're into experimentation, don't mind spending a few bucks, and time is not an issue, I say give DIY a go.