Cinevate achro on M2? at DVinfo.net

Samuel Hinterlang · February 25th, 2008, 04:37 PM

Has anyone actually used a Cinevate achromat on an M2?

I know in theory it'll work just fine, but I'd like to know for sure. I don't want to lose $250 trying to save $150.

Thanks

Chris Barcellos · February 25th, 2008, 05:29 PM

Sam:

I have used the Cinvate achromat on the Redrock DIY spinner I built. I haven't actually seen an M2 yet, so I don't know if they also have a consener inside the unit, like the Letus 35a has. With the spinner, and the Cinevate achromat, and shooting with my FX1 or my HV20, I have to add about a 4.5 to 5 inch spacer between achromat and spinning ground glass, in order to zoom to avoid vignetting. At that spacing, I get a lot of play room. I know other camera are able to focus and zoom at closer ranges, but just know it depends on your camera.

Bob Hart · February 25th, 2008, 07:29 PM

I would be inclined to agree with Chris's post. As long as you can live with the setback of 4.5 to 5.0 inches it should be okay. Longer setbacks also trend towards less edge softness or distortion.

If in doubt, email Brian Valente at Redrock directly or through dvinfo mail. He cruises here from time-to-time and should still have a touch of the experimental enthusiast in his essential psyche.

As an experiment, I made up a bayonet style relay mount to go between a Sony Z1 and a Mini35 for JVC GY-HD100. I used the Century Optics 4+ achromatic dioptre from my home-build AGUS35 and arranged the adaptor to screw straight in the front of it.

This concoction replaced the JVC GY-HD100 special optical relay module. It worked just fine, better resolution than my own device which one would expect from the work of the ex-ARRI engineers at P+S Technik.

Now if only I could afford the JVC or Sony's EX1.

Samuel Hinterlang · February 25th, 2008, 10:47 PM

Thanks Chris,

I don't want to play around to much, so I'm probably gonna buy the one from red rock just to be safe. I know even if I buy red rocks achro, I might still be spacing the lens and gg, but at least I know without trying that it will work.

I'd still be interested in hearing from anyone else who has direct experience with this set up.

Zac Crosby · February 28th, 2008, 07:19 AM

im using the Cinevate Achro with the M2 and its working fine for me... basically the same magnification as with the redrock.... just the redrock is more expensive....

Dennis Wood · March 3rd, 2008, 12:27 AM

Actually, our non-flip achromat (the one you're looking for) is a bit more powerful than the M2 version. It will work perfectly.

Bob Hart · March 3rd, 2008, 02:18 AM

Dennis Wood.

What is the power of your 72mm diam flip achromatic dioptre?

I am doing a bit of a fiddle with a Mini35 onto an EX1 tomorrow using my AGUS35 optics and a bridgepiece I made to mount a JVC HD100 version less the relay up to a Z1.

The 58mm dioptre is okay for the Z1, obviously 72mm would be better as the corner falloff from the smaller exit pupil of the 58mm and the inherent edge falloff at full zoom of the camera itself are cumulative. The 58mm is a Century 4+.

I think the Mini35 GG diameter, less its excursion may be a bit tight for the 1/2" EX1 at full zoom but there might just be enough to cheat a 2:35 pretend cinemascope frame. However one cannot know until one tries. If it vignettes on the 58mm, then I may be looking for a 72mm 4+.

Phil Bloom.

If you have a peaceful and serene moment on your US assignment and have good recollection and time to post, can you remember what power achromat and what setback distance you used to make the EX1 satisfied with the Letus Extreme?

Samuel Hinterlang · March 4th, 2008, 04:28 PM

Thanks Dennis

Dennis Wood · March 6th, 2008, 05:30 PM

Bob, right around +8. It compares in actual use to the Asian +10 which appears to be incorrectly rated.

Bob Hart · March 7th, 2008, 12:54 AM

Dennis.

8+ for the flip adaptor?

Your adapter must be in a similar league compact size-wise as the PRO35.

I've been out of touch with your developments of late, but it seems on the surface of things to me, that your existing layout with little modification might be in with a real chance with 2/3" cameras and of course 1/2" if direct relay comes along.

Dennis Wood · March 7th, 2008, 08:43 PM

Bob, we are in fact working very hard on a multi-format relay for the Brevis system right now. The achromat of course won't be used.

That spec of +8 is with regard to the non-flip achromat...not the flip one.

February 25th, 2008, 04:37 PM	#1
Samuel Hinterlang Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 79	Cinevate achro on M2? Has anyone actually used a Cinevate achromat on an M2? I know in theory it'll work just fine, but I'd like to know for sure. I don't want to lose $250 trying to save $150. Thanks

February 25th, 2008, 05:29 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Sam: I have used the Cinvate achromat on the Redrock DIY spinner I built. I haven't actually seen an M2 yet, so I don't know if they also have a consener inside the unit, like the Letus 35a has. With the spinner, and the Cinevate achromat, and shooting with my FX1 or my HV20, I have to add about a 4.5 to 5 inch spacer between achromat and spinning ground glass, in order to zoom to avoid vignetting. At that spacing, I get a lot of play room. I know other camera are able to focus and zoom at closer ranges, but just know it depends on your camera. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 25th, 2008, 07:29 PM	#3
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I would be inclined to agree with Chris's post. As long as you can live with the setback of 4.5 to 5.0 inches it should be okay. Longer setbacks also trend towards less edge softness or distortion. If in doubt, email Brian Valente at Redrock directly or through dvinfo mail. He cruises here from time-to-time and should still have a touch of the experimental enthusiast in his essential psyche. As an experiment, I made up a bayonet style relay mount to go between a Sony Z1 and a Mini35 for JVC GY-HD100. I used the Century Optics 4+ achromatic dioptre from my home-build AGUS35 and arranged the adaptor to screw straight in the front of it. This concoction replaced the JVC GY-HD100 special optical relay module. It worked just fine, better resolution than my own device which one would expect from the work of the ex-ARRI engineers at P+S Technik. Now if only I could afford the JVC or Sony's EX1. Last edited by Bob Hart; February 25th, 2008 at 07:29 PM. Reason: error

March 3rd, 2008, 02:18 AM	#7
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Dennis Wood. What is the power of your 72mm diam flip achromatic dioptre? I am doing a bit of a fiddle with a Mini35 onto an EX1 tomorrow using my AGUS35 optics and a bridgepiece I made to mount a JVC HD100 version less the relay up to a Z1. The 58mm dioptre is okay for the Z1, obviously 72mm would be better as the corner falloff from the smaller exit pupil of the 58mm and the inherent edge falloff at full zoom of the camera itself are cumulative. The 58mm is a Century 4+. I think the Mini35 GG diameter, less its excursion may be a bit tight for the 1/2" EX1 at full zoom but there might just be enough to cheat a 2:35 pretend cinemascope frame. However one cannot know until one tries. If it vignettes on the 58mm, then I may be looking for a 72mm 4+. Phil Bloom. If you have a peaceful and serene moment on your US assignment and have good recollection and time to post, can you remember what power achromat and what setback distance you used to make the EX1 satisfied with the Letus Extreme? Last edited by Bob Hart; March 3rd, 2008 at 02:21 AM. Reason: can't spell (never could without scratchouts)

March 7th, 2008, 12:54 AM	#10
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Dennis. 8+ for the flip adaptor? Your adapter must be in a similar league compact size-wise as the PRO35. I've been out of touch with your developments of late, but it seems on the surface of things to me, that your existing layout with little modification might be in with a real chance with 2/3" cameras and of course 1/2" if direct relay comes along. Last edited by Bob Hart; March 7th, 2008 at 12:55 AM. Reason: missing wordstuff

February 25th, 2008, 10:47 PM	#4
Samuel Hinterlang Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 79	Thanks Chris, I don't want to play around to much, so I'm probably gonna buy the one from red rock just to be safe. I know even if I buy red rocks achro, I might still be spacing the lens and gg, but at least I know without trying that it will work. I'd still be interested in hearing from anyone else who has direct experience with this set up.

February 28th, 2008, 07:19 AM	#5
Zac Crosby Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mills, MA Posts: 52	im using the Cinevate Achro with the M2 and its working fine for me... basically the same magnification as with the redrock.... just the redrock is more expensive....

March 3rd, 2008, 12:27 AM	#6
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Actually, our non-flip achromat (the one you're looking for) is a bit more powerful than the M2 version. It will work perfectly.

March 4th, 2008, 04:28 PM	#8
Samuel Hinterlang Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 79	Thanks Dennis

March 6th, 2008, 05:30 PM	#9
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Bob, right around +8. It compares in actual use to the Asian +10 which appears to be incorrectly rated.

March 7th, 2008, 08:43 PM	#11
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Bob, we are in fact working very hard on a multi-format relay for the Brevis system right now. The achromat of course won't be used. That spec of +8 is with regard to the non-flip achromat...not the flip one.