Vibrating GG Holder, where? at DVinfo.net

Robert Gradisen · January 16th, 2008, 11:16 PM

hi ya'll
so its been awhile since ive posted , as usual i just have to say this is such a great forum. So ive been busy with the building and developing of my own 35 mm adapter for a couple of years now, i have progressed through the many varieties of adapter n starting with a static adapter with wax screen (too much grain but still the nicest bokeh of them all ) , next was the spinning disc adapter ( too big and chunky for my liking ,and although it delivered shallow depth of field all in all the results were nothing special) ,so finally i bought a canon e e s screen and mounted it on posts,so far the nicest allround results ( but again due to the length of the posts et.c. the thing is too big and chunky ,plus i found it to be more fragile , more can go wrong with it). so finally tjis brings me to my question, where can i buy a leaf spring bi-axial vibrating gg holder from , or otherwise where can i find adecent and accurate schematic of such a thing ( i seem too remember that someone was selling them on this site, but i can't find the post anymore), if someone can steer me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated
rob

Igor Babic · January 17th, 2008, 03:21 AM

http://www.jetsetmodels.info

James Millward · January 17th, 2008, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igor Babic

http://www.jetsetmodels.info

As Igor has said, use Daniel at jet set.

This guy deserves a medal for making his DIY guides, and he can suplly all the parts.

I have used his method, as well as buying his vibrating holders and they are so proffesianlly built!

His method of using eos extension tubes plus the ee-a screens makes for a very proffesional and sturdy adapter.

James

Robert Gradisen · January 17th, 2008, 01:56 PM

yeah well i had seen the jetsetmodels stuff before, and this is not a leaf spring bi axial holder, this model uses some kind of foam or rubber so it cant be truely biaxial ( x y axis and not z axis motion ),and on top of that doesn't anyone have o problem with the fact that you have to pay 70- 100 euros for what is esentially a moulded piece of rubber, i mean if the design works then bravo, but has anyone heard of the price of a product being justified by the amount of materials and work that go into it, i don't want to stand in the way of the guy making a profit but lets be reasonable please,
anyway i'll see if i can find a picture of this leaf spring bi axial gg holder and post it , i already saw on this sight once so someone here should know what i'm taling about.
rob

Igor Babic · January 18th, 2008, 12:54 PM

Rob, Those parts from jetset are cnc machined from special kind of plastic and this is very costly, and foam rubber is only to prevent z axis movement, he also has a version of holder that uses carbon fiber pins. I have made my self this kind from 3mm plexiglass. (Brevis is built this way, but is also cnc machined).) I have easy acess to a laser cutter/engraving machine so this is very easy to make. If you don't have money, try to make one like this by your self with small modeling saw, it is also very easy to do from plexy or similar rigid plastic. Leaf spring one is from http://www.cinedof.com/ and this link is also on jetset site. Why you want this one? If you are intrested in carbon fiber one I can show you how can you do it.

Robert Gradisen · January 19th, 2008, 04:43 AM

sorry if i came off a bit harsh, i'm sure daniels holder are high quality parts, but i'm not exactly sure how foam rubber can prevent z axis motion, i know that a disc motor or even a normal motor with off centre weight will create mostly an x y axis motion but i don't see how it could effectivly stop the z axis motion , however i personally not observed the thing in action so i guess i don't know for sure. As for the leaf spring oscillator, it has has the property built in as to cancel out excess inertia , thus not really vibrating the entire unit,( i apologise if this is not totally clear as the words don't seem to come to me today ) , this property is what i am most interested in.
for some reason nothing on the cinedof site is hot so i cant click on any of the links, but thankyou for anyway as i think this is by the only guy on the dvi forum who is working with the leaf spring vibrator, ( i could be wrong though ) and i seem to recall that he was from estonia , i did send him an email but have had no reply, and i'm not one to be to pushhy about .
at the end of the day i think i would prefer to spend 70 euros worth of time and effort tryng to make the thing myself, as i feel it more satisfying, and as an upshoot i get a greater understanding on the internal workings of the device.
Igor i'm am curious about the perspex gg holder you use or any other type actually , i would like to discuss it more to find out how and why et. c.
I guess at the end of the day ,i like many on this forum ,am just searching for the best cheapest most efficient sturdy simplest in design solution for a vibrating gg holder , i believe that less is more and i appreciate the elegance of design in leaf spring device.

rob

Lau Ho Ming · January 25th, 2008, 03:40 PM

Igor, I'm interested in the Carbon Fibre one. Please show us how to do it.

Also. I realy agree that stuff from jetsetmodels are seriously overpriced. E.g. $100 vibrating spring leaf GG holder which is not even their own original design(Toenis was the originaly designer and he used to sell this thing much cheaper than jetset even one year before). Another classic is the $900+ cheap eos extension tube adapter. Even with $800, you already get the SGPro Rev3+rod support. AND A FLIGHT CASE LOL. We don't buy stuff because they spend xxx time and money for R&D and use good quality material to make something. We simply don't care. We are consumers. All we care are the values of the product.
Anyway, I wouldn' recommend buying stuff from jetset. Because my vibrating GG holder from jetset has already broken after half year of use and I have to keep glueing them with superglue. The leafspring is just too weak and thin to withstand long time vibration. Yours maybe able to use for a year without breaking but my has already broken twice during my shooting day.

Doesn't anyone have o problem with the fact that you have to pay 70- 100 euros for what is esentially a moulded piece of rubber THAT BREAKS. That is the main point.

You may delete this post again. But What I'm saying is 100% true. :)

Igor Babic · January 26th, 2008, 04:23 AM

Here it is guys. I have attached picture of my early adapter and parts (leftovers from my new adapter) so you can see basic stuff. This principle is nothing new and its been discussed here more then few times, and if you look hard enough on jetsets tutorials and pictures of his products you will see very similar stuff.

First try to find your local shop that make engravings for door/name plates and they use laser machine for this. Ask them if they have 3mm black plexyglass and can they cut it for you if you bring them your design. This has to be probably Corel draw format, and in my next post I will attach pdf and cdr files of my designs so you can start exprimenting or to show them if they can draw it for you or you can use it for tracing to your plexy sheet and saw it out yourself.

Second try to find your local store for fishing tools, because they have carbon fiber pins. Those pins are part of fishing accessories that holds lure in water. Use thinner ones 0,5mm for short type of holder (base is mounted in SLR mount) and 1mm ones for longer adapter like my 1st prototype (base is toward achromat side).

All other info you can find on jetsets pages. Daniel has put a lot of effort in his tutorials and don't blame him if he wants to make some money. You have a choice to buy or not to buy from him or any one else and I am shure that he will replace your broken one.

In the end dont make adapters if you dont want to spend money for your r&d it will cost you almost like purchase of SGpro or Brevis if you count hours you spend to make it. This is only good if you like to experiment to see if this is realy what you need and dont have opportunity to try the real thing.

(PS: I have Brevis...)

I hope this helps.

Lau Ho Ming · January 26th, 2008, 03:17 PM

I think in a rod-based vibration design. It is better to have longer rods. Short rods=small radius=z-axis movement.
But your prototype doesn't have adjustable focal flange right?
I have some 1mm steel rods. Not sure if carbon fibre rods is better.

Igor Babic · January 27th, 2008, 04:48 AM

Lau, I agree with you, longer is better. But I wanna make short adapter for HV20 to avoid vignetting with canon screens. You only need 1mm or less vibration to avoid noise from canon screens, so I think this is very minor error. My 1st prototype is mounted in Asian 72mm macro ring (I have removed macro lens) So I can adjust ff but this is not very practical way, so when you decide what is your gg, what is right side for matte side and SLR mount type there is no need for ff adjustment.

In this post are pdf and cdr files for laser cutting or for print for tracing and hand saw cutting. Pdf and cdr are same files and contain some notes for you and your laser tech. There is also some aid tools for ff and gluing.

My prototype has metal pins. This metal is elastic, but not hard like one used for springs, carbon fiber are much more elastic and always bends back to strait position and probably better takes glue. Be careful when cut carbon fiber it gets split ends. Use some high speed cutter.

Enjoy...

Lau Ho Ming · January 27th, 2008, 11:27 AM

I don't have access to laser machine. I only have an ordinary drill. And I'm planning to handmake a carbon fibre GG holder for Nikon GG.
I successfully cutting circles on 1mm thick Carbon fibre sheet with a holesaw. This thing is really lightweight and tough.
And I got some routing bits. I'm trying to figure out how to cut a straight line with a drill. I can successfully cut it but a straight line is not easy. Any recommendation

Anyway. I don't know where I can get those carbon fibre pins here in Hong Kong. Otherwise it would be great.

BTW. How do you attach the pin to the holder? Only superglue? Is it strong
enough?

Igor Babic · January 27th, 2008, 03:12 PM

Try old fashion way: Yellow pages in phonebook. Try to find (usualy small) companies that make stamps, door plates with names, medals and plates for sport prizes and similar stuff. They all use CNC engraving machines or Laser machines.
Here you can see how this thing looks:
http://www.directindustry.com/prod/u...769-34134.html

For Carbonfiber pins try to find sport fishing shops. This is device that holds lure in water like I have explain in my previous mail. I dont know how this is called in english, but this stuff is silly cheap, and you can choose in couple of sizes. Take your calipers with you.

Dont use super glue. Always use two component epoxy glue. It usualy needs 24 hours to harden but is hard and little bit elastic. Super glue is not for this kind of work. It is too stiff and needs to be very thin for proper bonding. Epoxy glue can be applied very generously and this provide more holding surface. This is similar stuff that is used for making carbon fiber pipes or glass fiber boats.

If you wanna do it yourself like cnc machine you will need moving table under your drill. They are very expencive. Try instead, to make some kind of guide for your material holder, so you can glide your stuff and make straight lines.
You will have round corners. When you drill holes try to drill them all together thru all layers that have to be conected with pins or screws.

January 16th, 2008, 11:16 PM	#1
Robert Gradisen New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Amsterdam , Netherlands Posts: 22	Vibrating GG Holder, where? hi ya'll so its been awhile since ive posted , as usual i just have to say this is such a great forum. So ive been busy with the building and developing of my own 35 mm adapter for a couple of years now, i have progressed through the many varieties of adapter n starting with a static adapter with wax screen (too much grain but still the nicest bokeh of them all ) , next was the spinning disc adapter ( too big and chunky for my liking ,and although it delivered shallow depth of field all in all the results were nothing special) ,so finally i bought a canon e e s screen and mounted it on posts,so far the nicest allround results ( but again due to the length of the posts et.c. the thing is too big and chunky ,plus i found it to be more fragile , more can go wrong with it). so finally tjis brings me to my question, where can i buy a leaf spring bi-axial vibrating gg holder from , or otherwise where can i find adecent and accurate schematic of such a thing ( i seem too remember that someone was selling them on this site, but i can't find the post anymore), if someone can steer me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated rob

January 26th, 2008, 04:23 AM	#8
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Here is basic info Here it is guys. I have attached picture of my early adapter and parts (leftovers from my new adapter) so you can see basic stuff. This principle is nothing new and its been discussed here more then few times, and if you look hard enough on jetsets tutorials and pictures of his products you will see very similar stuff. First try to find your local shop that make engravings for door/name plates and they use laser machine for this. Ask them if they have 3mm black plexyglass and can they cut it for you if you bring them your design. This has to be probably Corel draw format, and in my next post I will attach pdf and cdr files of my designs so you can start exprimenting or to show them if they can draw it for you or you can use it for tracing to your plexy sheet and saw it out yourself. Second try to find your local store for fishing tools, because they have carbon fiber pins. Those pins are part of fishing accessories that holds lure in water. Use thinner ones 0,5mm for short type of holder (base is mounted in SLR mount) and 1mm ones for longer adapter like my 1st prototype (base is toward achromat side). All other info you can find on jetsets pages. Daniel has put a lot of effort in his tutorials and don't blame him if he wants to make some money. You have a choice to buy or not to buy from him or any one else and I am shure that he will replace your broken one. In the end dont make adapters if you dont want to spend money for your r&d it will cost you almost like purchase of SGpro or Brevis if you count hours you spend to make it. This is only good if you like to experiment to see if this is realy what you need and dont have opportunity to try the real thing. (PS: I have Brevis...) I hope this helps. Attached Thumbnails

January 27th, 2008, 03:12 PM	#12
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Try old fashion way: Yellow pages in phonebook. Try to find (usualy small) companies that make stamps, door plates with names, medals and plates for sport prizes and similar stuff. They all use CNC engraving machines or Laser machines. Here you can see how this thing looks: http://www.directindustry.com/prod/u...769-34134.html For Carbonfiber pins try to find sport fishing shops. This is device that holds lure in water like I have explain in my previous mail. I dont know how this is called in english, but this stuff is silly cheap, and you can choose in couple of sizes. Take your calipers with you. Dont use super glue. Always use two component epoxy glue. It usualy needs 24 hours to harden but is hard and little bit elastic. Super glue is not for this kind of work. It is too stiff and needs to be very thin for proper bonding. Epoxy glue can be applied very generously and this provide more holding surface. This is similar stuff that is used for making carbon fiber pipes or glass fiber boats. If you wanna do it yourself like cnc machine you will need moving table under your drill. They are very expencive. Try instead, to make some kind of guide for your material holder, so you can glide your stuff and make straight lines. You will have round corners. When you drill holes try to drill them all together thru all layers that have to be conected with pins or screws. Last edited by Igor Babic; January 28th, 2008 at 02:26 AM.

January 17th, 2008, 03:21 AM	#2
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	http://www.jetsetmodels.info

January 17th, 2008, 01:56 PM	#4
Robert Gradisen New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Amsterdam , Netherlands Posts: 22	yeah well i had seen the jetsetmodels stuff before, and this is not a leaf spring bi axial holder, this model uses some kind of foam or rubber so it cant be truely biaxial ( x y axis and not z axis motion ),and on top of that doesn't anyone have o problem with the fact that you have to pay 70- 100 euros for what is esentially a moulded piece of rubber, i mean if the design works then bravo, but has anyone heard of the price of a product being justified by the amount of materials and work that go into it, i don't want to stand in the way of the guy making a profit but lets be reasonable please, anyway i'll see if i can find a picture of this leaf spring bi axial gg holder and post it , i already saw on this sight once so someone here should know what i'm taling about. rob

January 18th, 2008, 12:54 PM	#5
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Rob, Those parts from jetset are cnc machined from special kind of plastic and this is very costly, and foam rubber is only to prevent z axis movement, he also has a version of holder that uses carbon fiber pins. I have made my self this kind from 3mm plexiglass. (Brevis is built this way, but is also cnc machined).) I have easy acess to a laser cutter/engraving machine so this is very easy to make. If you don't have money, try to make one like this by your self with small modeling saw, it is also very easy to do from plexy or similar rigid plastic. Leaf spring one is from http://www.cinedof.com/ and this link is also on jetset site. Why you want this one? If you are intrested in carbon fiber one I can show you how can you do it.

January 19th, 2008, 04:43 AM	#6
Robert Gradisen New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Amsterdam , Netherlands Posts: 22	sorry if i came off a bit harsh, i'm sure daniels holder are high quality parts, but i'm not exactly sure how foam rubber can prevent z axis motion, i know that a disc motor or even a normal motor with off centre weight will create mostly an x y axis motion but i don't see how it could effectivly stop the z axis motion , however i personally not observed the thing in action so i guess i don't know for sure. As for the leaf spring oscillator, it has has the property built in as to cancel out excess inertia , thus not really vibrating the entire unit,( i apologise if this is not totally clear as the words don't seem to come to me today ) , this property is what i am most interested in. for some reason nothing on the cinedof site is hot so i cant click on any of the links, but thankyou for anyway as i think this is by the only guy on the dvi forum who is working with the leaf spring vibrator, ( i could be wrong though ) and i seem to recall that he was from estonia , i did send him an email but have had no reply, and i'm not one to be to pushhy about . at the end of the day i think i would prefer to spend 70 euros worth of time and effort tryng to make the thing myself, as i feel it more satisfying, and as an upshoot i get a greater understanding on the internal workings of the device. Igor i'm am curious about the perspex gg holder you use or any other type actually , i would like to discuss it more to find out how and why et. c. I guess at the end of the day ,i like many on this forum ,am just searching for the best cheapest most efficient sturdy simplest in design solution for a vibrating gg holder , i believe that less is more and i appreciate the elegance of design in leaf spring device. rob

January 25th, 2008, 03:40 PM	#7
Lau Ho Ming Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 81	Igor, I'm interested in the Carbon Fibre one. Please show us how to do it. Also. I realy agree that stuff from jetsetmodels are seriously overpriced. E.g. $100 vibrating spring leaf GG holder which is not even their own original design(Toenis was the originaly designer and he used to sell this thing much cheaper than jetset even one year before). Another classic is the $900+ cheap eos extension tube adapter. Even with $800, you already get the SGPro Rev3+rod support. AND A FLIGHT CASE LOL. We don't buy stuff because they spend xxx time and money for R&D and use good quality material to make something. We simply don't care. We are consumers. All we care are the values of the product. Anyway, I wouldn' recommend buying stuff from jetset. Because my vibrating GG holder from jetset has already broken after half year of use and I have to keep glueing them with superglue. The leafspring is just too weak and thin to withstand long time vibration. Yours maybe able to use for a year without breaking but my has already broken twice during my shooting day. Doesn't anyone have o problem with the fact that you have to pay 70- 100 euros for what is esentially a moulded piece of rubber THAT BREAKS. That is the main point. You may delete this post again. But What I'm saying is 100% true. :)

January 26th, 2008, 03:17 PM	#9
Lau Ho Ming Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 81	I think in a rod-based vibration design. It is better to have longer rods. Short rods=small radius=z-axis movement. But your prototype doesn't have adjustable focal flange right? I have some 1mm steel rods. Not sure if carbon fibre rods is better.

January 27th, 2008, 11:27 AM	#11
Lau Ho Ming Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 81	I don't have access to laser machine. I only have an ordinary drill. And I'm planning to handmake a carbon fibre GG holder for Nikon GG. I successfully cutting circles on 1mm thick Carbon fibre sheet with a holesaw. This thing is really lightweight and tough. And I got some routing bits. I'm trying to figure out how to cut a straight line with a drill. I can successfully cut it but a straight line is not easy. Any recommendation Anyway. I don't know where I can get those carbon fibre pins here in Hong Kong. Otherwise it would be great. BTW. How do you attach the pin to the holder? Only superglue? Is it strong enough?