Sumix 2/3" 1920x1080 CMOS

Eric Wu · January 16th, 2009, 10:10 PM

I finally got the time to put together some test shots:
SMX12A2C Test Shots on Vimeo

All was shot 1920x1080 24p, shutter 1/48, 12-bit raw as DNG sequences. Lens was Nikon 28mm F2.8. No color correction other than tweaking the DNG settings. Please download the original 1080p AVI file (at bottom-right of the page). Vimeo doesn't do the camera justice IMO.

I managed to tune my program to be able to capture 1080 24p 12-bit on a Pentium M Dothan 1.6G machine. It's way too slow for running any additional features. I'll get a C2D machine when I have the money.

I still have to find solution for DC power source. The 8" LCD I ordered have not arrived, so it's still not very easy to shoot.

Biel Bestue · January 17th, 2009, 06:37 AM

eric, how does the camera handle handheld shots at 1/96? when does rolling shutter appear? how does it handle a scene under the direct light of the sun and shadows?

Eric Wu · January 18th, 2009, 10:08 PM

The shutter speed won't affect the rolling shutter effect. The amount of CMOS rolling shutter effect is proportional to the interval between the scanning of the up-most line and the bottom-most line, which is a constant value with the same width/height/fps settings, and is irrelevant to exposure time(shutter speed).

SMX12A2 have a special mode that drops every other frame. The 24p I shot was really 48p with every other frame removed. This way the rolling shutter effect is half of 24p. It's still there but to my eyes it's much more acceptable.

Biel Bestue · January 19th, 2009, 04:21 AM

Eric wouldn't the nvidia/intel platform "ion" be the perfect companion for the camera? or maybe it would be two much processing power? or too costly?

Eric Wu · January 20th, 2009, 06:37 AM

I have not test the 2-core Atom but I guess it won't be fast enough. Currently my software uses the CPU to do most of the work. And I don't have the resources to test all kinds of hardware. I would use a 45nm Core 2 Duo based machine, but I have to make do with my old Pentium M right now.

Anmol Mishra · February 5th, 2009, 08:07 PM

Time to subscribe again to the thread.
Hi Wu, Can you outline all your equipment ? i.e. camera, PC, any capture card, monitor etc. ? Thanks!

Daniel Lipats · February 9th, 2009, 10:25 AM

Just ran across something interesting today. It's a Mini-ITX Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile multimedia motherboard which has integrated:

HDMI
DVI-D
YPbPr
digital audio
dual Intel Gb LAN
5 SATA & 8 USB 2.0

1 PCI (32-bit)
1 Mini PCI
1 PCI Express Mini Card

Onboard Compact Flash slot

This thing is ideal for any camera. Especially this one. It's also relatively cheap for what you get.

Logic Supply - Leaders in Mini-ITX & Small Form Factor Solutions

Eric Wu · February 19th, 2009, 02:36 AM

Hello guys,

I have built a portable PC for recording. It runs on a 12V7AH lead-acid battery inside the case, and can take external DC power source. The main specs are as following:

CPU : Pentium M Dothan 1.6G
RAM: DDR2 667 2G
HDD: Seagate 2.5" 120G x 2
monitor : 8.4" touch-screen LCD

The battery runs only about 1 hour. The HDDs can store 50 minutes of uncompressed files. I'm thinking adding a removable interface for the HDDs so I can quickly exchange them when they are full.

The original idea was to attach the whole thing together, but that would be way too heavy for my small tripod.

Kholi Hicks · February 19th, 2009, 11:06 AM

Getting re-interested in the SUMIX. With the release of the HPX300 I've been tryin' to decide whether to get a 5D MKII and keep my HPX170 + Letus Ultimate or to upgrade, but then I remembered the 12A2C and started huntin' for info...

It's nice to see some brand new footage pop up!

Eric, what lens are you using on the front?

Do you have more footage to post? I'm also interested in the amount of wobble/skew present when handheld.

How does the software work for frame rate and shutter angle control? I read that you recorded 48P and the 24P is coming from there, but can you record a straight 24P? How's that work?

How much did it cost to build your mini rig and where did you order the battery from?

Now that Scarlet's pretty much dead-in-the-water it's easier to look at these alternatives to see what we can get out of them. Still not ruling out the 5D MKII.

Anmol Mishra · February 19th, 2009, 06:43 PM

Hi Eric. What solution did you use for the focus wheel ?
I noticed the portable PC holder is a towel holder - nice touch.
Is the lens and camera support also DIY ?
Looks quite nice actually..

Daniel Lipats · February 19th, 2009, 07:44 PM

Eric,

Would you mind uploading a short (2-3) frame DNG sequence? I would like to take a closer look at your FPN solution and compare the noise levels to what I'm seeing in my videos.

Since you are not using the software that is provided by Sumix its possible that your configuration is producing a cleaner image.

I shot some more tests over the past week and have been looking for a good solution to remove temporal noise in post. FPN is simple but the random noise is a big problem even with 0 gain. So far I have not had much luck. Doing a lot of tuning and calibration but everything I try takes away important details.

Eric Wu · February 19th, 2009, 10:17 PM

Thank you guys,

The lens in the pictures above was a Nikon 50mm F1.8, with an F-mount to C-mount adapter. The rod support and follow focus was from my old DIY projects, originally for my DIY 35mm adapter. The model of lead-acid battery I use is for small UPS and I bought it from a local electronics store.

I have some other footages but they were all early tests. I'll take the camera outside and shoot some more this weekend, now that my portable recorder is ready. More samples are coming.

The purpose of shooting 48p and recording every other frame is to reduce the rolling shutter effect(wobble/skew). Of course the camera can shoot straight 24p but the amount of skew would be twice as much.

Daniel:
The noise I get at 0 gain is visible at low light, too. I don't think it would be a problem when shooting outdoor or well-lit scenes. I can live with it if that's the best we can get, but I wouldn't use any gain higher than 0 db.

Anmol Mishra · February 20th, 2009, 03:35 AM

I wonder if anyone can comment on a comparison between the 5D MArk II and the Sumix camera.
Both cost about 2500 USD (2700 USD for the 5D)
So the 5D Mark II has the bigger sensor + better low light.
It has an integrated recorder - 38 mbps H.264 while the Sumix requires the additional expense of a tethered PC.
Sumix allows RAW capture while the 5D does not.
Sumix attempts to reduce rolling shutter while we are stuck with the 5D rolling shutter unless we can shoot 48P as well..

Any other comparisons ?

Daniel Lipats · February 20th, 2009, 01:46 PM

I have both the Sumix and the 5D Mark II.

The rolling shutter is about the same as on the Sumix, if not slightly less. Both the cameras have contrasting advantages.

Shawn D. Caple · February 20th, 2009, 02:34 PM

Daniel: What kind of contrasting advantages?

Additional Thought: Couldn't the computer rig be set up to record to SD cards or Compact Flash to reduce size and weight?

February 5th, 2009, 08:07 PM	#516
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	Interesting developments Time to subscribe again to the thread. Hi Wu, Can you outline all your equipment ? i.e. camera, PC, any capture card, monitor etc. ? Thanks!

February 19th, 2009, 02:36 AM	#518
Eric Wu Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Taiwan Posts: 32	Hello guys, I have built a portable PC for recording. It runs on a 12V7AH lead-acid battery inside the case, and can take external DC power source. The main specs are as following: CPU : Pentium M Dothan 1.6G RAM: DDR2 667 2G HDD: Seagate 2.5" 120G x 2 monitor : 8.4" touch-screen LCD The battery runs only about 1 hour. The HDDs can store 50 minutes of uncompressed files. I'm thinking adding a removable interface for the HDDs so I can quickly exchange them when they are full. The original idea was to attach the whole thing together, but that would be way too heavy for my small tripod. Attached Thumbnails

February 19th, 2009, 06:43 PM	#520
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	Focus wheel and roller Hi Eric. What solution did you use for the focus wheel ? I noticed the portable PC holder is a towel holder - nice touch. Is the lens and camera support also DIY ? Looks quite nice actually..

January 16th, 2009, 10:10 PM	#511
Eric Wu Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Taiwan Posts: 32	I finally got the time to put together some test shots: SMX12A2C Test Shots on Vimeo All was shot 1920x1080 24p, shutter 1/48, 12-bit raw as DNG sequences. Lens was Nikon 28mm F2.8. No color correction other than tweaking the DNG settings. Please download the original 1080p AVI file (at bottom-right of the page). Vimeo doesn't do the camera justice IMO. I managed to tune my program to be able to capture 1080 24p 12-bit on a Pentium M Dothan 1.6G machine. It's way too slow for running any additional features. I'll get a C2D machine when I have the money. I still have to find solution for DC power source. The 8" LCD I ordered have not arrived, so it's still not very easy to shoot.

January 17th, 2009, 06:37 AM	#512
Biel Bestue Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 96	eric, how does the camera handle handheld shots at 1/96? when does rolling shutter appear? how does it handle a scene under the direct light of the sun and shadows?

January 18th, 2009, 10:08 PM	#513
Eric Wu Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Taiwan Posts: 32	The shutter speed won't affect the rolling shutter effect. The amount of CMOS rolling shutter effect is proportional to the interval between the scanning of the up-most line and the bottom-most line, which is a constant value with the same width/height/fps settings, and is irrelevant to exposure time(shutter speed). SMX12A2 have a special mode that drops every other frame. The 24p I shot was really 48p with every other frame removed. This way the rolling shutter effect is half of 24p. It's still there but to my eyes it's much more acceptable.

January 19th, 2009, 04:21 AM	#514
Biel Bestue Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 96	Eric wouldn't the nvidia/intel platform "ion" be the perfect companion for the camera? or maybe it would be two much processing power? or too costly?

January 20th, 2009, 06:37 AM	#515
Eric Wu Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Taiwan Posts: 32	I have not test the 2-core Atom but I guess it won't be fast enough. Currently my software uses the CPU to do most of the work. And I don't have the resources to test all kinds of hardware. I would use a 45nm Core 2 Duo based machine, but I have to make do with my old Pentium M right now.

February 9th, 2009, 10:25 AM	#517
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	Just ran across something interesting today. It's a Mini-ITX Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile multimedia motherboard which has integrated: HDMI DVI-D YPbPr digital audio dual Intel Gb LAN 5 SATA & 8 USB 2.0 1 PCI (32-bit) 1 Mini PCI 1 PCI Express Mini Card Onboard Compact Flash slot This thing is ideal for any camera. Especially this one. It's also relatively cheap for what you get. Logic Supply - Leaders in Mini-ITX & Small Form Factor Solutions

February 19th, 2009, 11:06 AM	#519
Kholi Hicks New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 14	Getting re-interested in the SUMIX. With the release of the HPX300 I've been tryin' to decide whether to get a 5D MKII and keep my HPX170 + Letus Ultimate or to upgrade, but then I remembered the 12A2C and started huntin' for info... It's nice to see some brand new footage pop up! Eric, what lens are you using on the front? Do you have more footage to post? I'm also interested in the amount of wobble/skew present when handheld. How does the software work for frame rate and shutter angle control? I read that you recorded 48P and the 24P is coming from there, but can you record a straight 24P? How's that work? How much did it cost to build your mini rig and where did you order the battery from? Now that Scarlet's pretty much dead-in-the-water it's easier to look at these alternatives to see what we can get out of them. Still not ruling out the 5D MKII.

February 19th, 2009, 07:44 PM	#521
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	Eric, Would you mind uploading a short (2-3) frame DNG sequence? I would like to take a closer look at your FPN solution and compare the noise levels to what I'm seeing in my videos. Since you are not using the software that is provided by Sumix its possible that your configuration is producing a cleaner image. I shot some more tests over the past week and have been looking for a good solution to remove temporal noise in post. FPN is simple but the random noise is a big problem even with 0 gain. So far I have not had much luck. Doing a lot of tuning and calibration but everything I try takes away important details.

February 19th, 2009, 10:17 PM	#522
Eric Wu Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Taiwan Posts: 32	Thank you guys, The lens in the pictures above was a Nikon 50mm F1.8, with an F-mount to C-mount adapter. The rod support and follow focus was from my old DIY projects, originally for my DIY 35mm adapter. The model of lead-acid battery I use is for small UPS and I bought it from a local electronics store. I have some other footages but they were all early tests. I'll take the camera outside and shoot some more this weekend, now that my portable recorder is ready. More samples are coming. The purpose of shooting 48p and recording every other frame is to reduce the rolling shutter effect(wobble/skew). Of course the camera can shoot straight 24p but the amount of skew would be twice as much. Daniel: The noise I get at 0 gain is visible at low light, too. I don't think it would be a problem when shooting outdoor or well-lit scenes. I can live with it if that's the best we can get, but I wouldn't use any gain higher than 0 db.

February 20th, 2009, 03:35 AM	#523
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	I wonder if anyone can comment on a comparison between the 5D MArk II and the Sumix camera. Both cost about 2500 USD (2700 USD for the 5D) So the 5D Mark II has the bigger sensor + better low light. It has an integrated recorder - 38 mbps H.264 while the Sumix requires the additional expense of a tethered PC. Sumix allows RAW capture while the 5D does not. Sumix attempts to reduce rolling shutter while we are stuck with the 5D rolling shutter unless we can shoot 48P as well.. Any other comparisons ?

February 20th, 2009, 01:46 PM	#524
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	I have both the Sumix and the 5D Mark II. The rolling shutter is about the same as on the Sumix, if not slightly less. Both the cameras have contrasting advantages.

February 20th, 2009, 02:34 PM	#525
Shawn D. Caple Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 60	Daniel: What kind of contrasting advantages? Additional Thought: Couldn't the computer rig be set up to record to SD cards or Compact Flash to reduce size and weight?