Sumix 2/3" 1920x1080 CMOS

Farhad Towfiq · February 17th, 2008, 12:51 AM

Roshdi,

Our IR filter is severely cutting the blue component. Altasen sensor is sensitive to shorter blue wavelength comparing to other sensors like Micron. Recently we found out that the IR filters (Hot mirror) that we ordered to Schott for this camera are made not exactly according to our specs. We are ordering new filters and send replacement to our customers.

Farhad Towfiq · February 17th, 2008, 01:04 AM

No compression is needed for 30fps 1080p 12bit.
Compression can be turned on or off with our application program or by API. presently it works only at 8 bit (that is after selecting a table look up) and it is needed if you wish to shoot at 60 fps 1080p (8bit)
Compression now is only a linear prediction coding scheme with a limited 1.7 times compression ratio. We provide decompressing formula and example code to our customers. Later we will put more details on our website.
We are working on some fancy new compression that will allow 12 bit (firmware not ready yet.)

Farhad Towfiq · February 17th, 2008, 01:28 AM

Juan,

We are dedicated to supporting our customers with them using our cameras. Anything not posted on our website can be provided if it is needed and is not against our obligations to sensor manufacturer. We are still supporting our original camera SMX-110 with Zoran sensor. For our Altasens camera we need to get individual permission from Altasen to provide information in data-sheet of sensor to specific customer. I hope they will allow us to post a gleanings of the data-sheet on our website.

10 bit table look up will be added later.

This camera is designed to be flexible and simple. everything that can be done on the PC side must be done on the PC side. Other interesting features like continuous changing of frame rate, frame by frame, is done on camera side.

Farhad Towfiq · February 17th, 2008, 01:57 AM

are there heat problems with the casing? (there doesn't seem to be ventilation and i thought sensors get quite hot)

Paul, So far we have not seen any problem with heath. Camera is very stable indoor or in below freeze outside. Howerver, the body gets warm.
There is a heath sinking design that transfers the heath from sensor board to the Aluminum alloy solid case.

Would a laptop work as a capture station, what are the real minimum specs? (there's a wealth of small form factors PCs and ultra portables out there).

Some laptops are excellent and some do not allow full bandwidth of GigaE. We had good results with IBM, and Gateway. I think any newer laptop will be ok.

What is the data rate down that GigE?

We are using 92% GigaE

What are the realistic time scales for these being readily available? (especially with the new altasens sensor - the one in the SI 2K)?

We are making 80 more with the same Altasens 3562. There is no advantage of going to 4562. Later we consider Aatachrome 2/3" and perhaps new Sony sensors.

Is the RAW data from the head standardised, so if a new head came along the software would be the same?

Almost. Some features will be different from sensor to sensor, all else will be identical.

What are the real issues in pulling something together that works in the field?

we are too busy with making camera heads. we give you tools and support to do the integration for something that works in the field. This is not our expertise yet.

cheers
paul[/QUOTE]

Paul Curtis · February 22nd, 2008, 04:18 AM

>We are making 80 more with the same Altasens 3562. There is no
>advantage of going to 4562. Later we consider Aatachrome 2/3"
>and perhaps new Sony sensors.

Farhad,

Im following your progress with increasing interest.

Can i ask which sony sensors do you mean?

You mention a LUT being available later on, does this mean you can update the cameras firmware once in use? I assume there's an FGPA in there and perhaps you have a method for updating the code?

Still waiting for images and movies.... :)

cheers
paul

Farhad Towfiq · February 22nd, 2008, 05:34 PM

Paul,

The Sony sensor is IMX021.

A LUT that can be set by user for 12 bits to 8 bits is already available. I mentioned that later we will add LUT for 12 to 10 bits. This we will do by interpolating, so 10 bits LUT will take the same memory as 8 bit version. User can only specify the LUT by 256 points, either 10 bits or 8 bits.

Yes, FPGA and programmer controllers are used inside the cameras and firmware is updated automatically with new camera drivers.

We just got some new IR filters. It will take some time before we post new sample videos. Altasens has extra ordinary color distinction. Using a correct filter makes all the difference. both blue and red are much enhanced.

Farhad

Jose A. Garcia · February 22nd, 2008, 06:38 PM

I'm so glad to read that, Farhad. We've got everything ready. You'll receive my order within the next few days. Just can't wait to test the camera!

Paul Curtis · February 25th, 2008, 01:33 PM

>The Sony sensor is IMX021.

You mean the APS-C sensor? Is this for machine vision (because it looks to be limited to 12fps)?

Although it would be very interesting if, by binning, this rate could be increased to have lower, more sensitive HD resolution. An APS-C size sensor in one of these things would open up the lens choices enormously.

Of course i'll take an HD 2/3rds for the time being once i know it all works :)

cheers
paul

Farhad Towfiq · February 26th, 2008, 08:29 AM

Paul,

Yes, better focus on what we can sell now. Other sensors will be available. We make sure upgrades to new sensors will be a painless as possible.

Gottfried Hofmann · February 26th, 2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

I'm so glad to read that, Farhad. We've got everything ready. You'll receive my order within the next few days. Just can't wait to test the camera!

And don't hesitate to post sample images and videos here :)

Seth Kersey · February 26th, 2008, 09:59 PM

Jose,

Did you ever acquire the single board computer that was being discussed in your older thread and will you be testing the Sumix on it? Or will you be testing on a standard desktop or laptop?

I look forward to seeing some sample videos from your testing!

Jose A. Garcia · February 27th, 2008, 07:15 AM

For now I'll test it using my laptop. In a couple of months I'll buy a Mini-ITX based computer and a couple of HDDs so I can have an independent camera.

Jose A. Garcia · March 13th, 2008, 05:28 AM

I've got news... Not about the camera, sorry, but I just received my new Computar 2/3" C-Mount zoom. I have to say I'm quite impressed with it. I haven't been able to test it yet, since I don't have the camera, but it looks fantastic.

It's a 12,5-75mm F1.2 zoom and those are 35mm equivalents, so they're real measures for 2/3" sensors. It looks even more solid than many of my canon EOS lenses, lol. Kinda like the feel of an old FD lens but brand new.

To those of you who question the option of using C-Mount machine vision lenses for film shooting, I have to say this lens has removed all possible doubts from my mind. The usual complaints about these kind of C-Mount lenses are small diameter and fixed positions when adjusting the iris (in most lenses you may notice a little "click" when going from one position to another). In this lens, the three rings are very smooth. And I mean VERY. On the other hand people complain about c-mount diameters because they are too small to control the focus. This lens is closer to 35mm in terms of size, so focusing is not a hard task. In fact I was really impressed with the size. Having used the lens from my first Micron demo board, I expected this one to be much smaller and definitely not this heavy. This' going to look fantastic with a followfocus and a mattebox.

As soon as I get the camera, I'll post more things about the lens.

Paul Curtis · March 13th, 2008, 05:39 AM

I've been testing a number of lenses on a camera here to try and understand real world results. I've got 16mm lenses, EF-cmount adaptor and a 25mm f1.4 fujinon machine vision lens.

Bottom line is im impressed with the fujinon, good feeling, 180 degrees of focus, nice image - bit soft on the edges but on a 2/3rds you probably wouldn't see that (im using a 1" sensor). This is compared to an old T2 cooke 25mm, switar f.16 10mm and various canon lenses (10-22mm works nicely for example)

I would love to see some images from that computar, it's on my hit list too. Would like to see how soft at f1.2 vs f4 for example.

My feeling is that the glass in these lines probably isn't *that* different to fujinons digital cinema offerings. I mean there's probably 20x the price difference and certainly not 20 times a better image

cheers
paul

Daniel Lipats · March 13th, 2008, 08:39 AM

I will be getting the SMX-12A2C camera this week. Our production team is meeting up this Saturday which will be a great opportunity to test the camera.

We have a short film project coming up in the next 3-4 weeks and if ready, I plan to use the SMX-12A2C. I will start putting together an interface and writing software for it on Sunday.

February 17th, 2008, 12:51 AM	#136
Farhad Towfiq Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 63	Blue color Roshdi, Our IR filter is severely cutting the blue component. Altasen sensor is sensitive to shorter blue wavelength comparing to other sensors like Micron. Recently we found out that the IR filters (Hot mirror) that we ordered to Schott for this camera are made not exactly according to our specs. We are ordering new filters and send replacement to our customers.

February 17th, 2008, 01:04 AM	#137
Farhad Towfiq Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 63	Compression No compression is needed for 30fps 1080p 12bit. Compression can be turned on or off with our application program or by API. presently it works only at 8 bit (that is after selecting a table look up) and it is needed if you wish to shoot at 60 fps 1080p (8bit) Compression now is only a linear prediction coding scheme with a limited 1.7 times compression ratio. We provide decompressing formula and example code to our customers. Later we will put more details on our website. We are working on some fancy new compression that will allow 12 bit (firmware not ready yet.)

February 17th, 2008, 01:28 AM	#138
Farhad Towfiq Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 63	Juan, We are dedicated to supporting our customers with them using our cameras. Anything not posted on our website can be provided if it is needed and is not against our obligations to sensor manufacturer. We are still supporting our original camera SMX-110 with Zoran sensor. For our Altasens camera we need to get individual permission from Altasen to provide information in data-sheet of sensor to specific customer. I hope they will allow us to post a gleanings of the data-sheet on our website. 10 bit table look up will be added later. This camera is designed to be flexible and simple. everything that can be done on the PC side must be done on the PC side. Other interesting features like continuous changing of frame rate, frame by frame, is done on camera side.

February 17th, 2008, 01:57 AM	#139
Farhad Towfiq Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 63	are there heat problems with the casing? (there doesn't seem to be ventilation and i thought sensors get quite hot) Paul, So far we have not seen any problem with heath. Camera is very stable indoor or in below freeze outside. Howerver, the body gets warm. There is a heath sinking design that transfers the heath from sensor board to the Aluminum alloy solid case. Would a laptop work as a capture station, what are the real minimum specs? (there's a wealth of small form factors PCs and ultra portables out there). Some laptops are excellent and some do not allow full bandwidth of GigaE. We had good results with IBM, and Gateway. I think any newer laptop will be ok. What is the data rate down that GigE? We are using 92% GigaE What are the realistic time scales for these being readily available? (especially with the new altasens sensor - the one in the SI 2K)? We are making 80 more with the same Altasens 3562. There is no advantage of going to 4562. Later we consider Aatachrome 2/3" and perhaps new Sony sensors. Is the RAW data from the head standardised, so if a new head came along the software would be the same? Almost. Some features will be different from sensor to sensor, all else will be identical. What are the real issues in pulling something together that works in the field? we are too busy with making camera heads. we give you tools and support to do the integration for something that works in the field. This is not our expertise yet. cheers paul[/QUOTE]

February 22nd, 2008, 04:18 AM	#140
Paul Curtis Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canterbury Posts: 411	>We are making 80 more with the same Altasens 3562. There is no >advantage of going to 4562. Later we consider Aatachrome 2/3" >and perhaps new Sony sensors. Farhad, Im following your progress with increasing interest. Can i ask which sony sensors do you mean? You mention a LUT being available later on, does this mean you can update the cameras firmware once in use? I assume there's an FGPA in there and perhaps you have a method for updating the code? Still waiting for images and movies.... :) cheers paul

February 22nd, 2008, 05:34 PM	#141
Farhad Towfiq Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 63	Paul, The Sony sensor is IMX021. A LUT that can be set by user for 12 bits to 8 bits is already available. I mentioned that later we will add LUT for 12 to 10 bits. This we will do by interpolating, so 10 bits LUT will take the same memory as 8 bit version. User can only specify the LUT by 256 points, either 10 bits or 8 bits. Yes, FPGA and programmer controllers are used inside the cameras and firmware is updated automatically with new camera drivers. We just got some new IR filters. It will take some time before we post new sample videos. Altasens has extra ordinary color distinction. Using a correct filter makes all the difference. both blue and red are much enhanced. Farhad

February 22nd, 2008, 06:38 PM	#142
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	I'm so glad to read that, Farhad. We've got everything ready. You'll receive my order within the next few days. Just can't wait to test the camera!

February 25th, 2008, 01:33 PM	#143
Paul Curtis Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canterbury Posts: 411	>The Sony sensor is IMX021. You mean the APS-C sensor? Is this for machine vision (because it looks to be limited to 12fps)? Although it would be very interesting if, by binning, this rate could be increased to have lower, more sensitive HD resolution. An APS-C size sensor in one of these things would open up the lens choices enormously. Of course i'll take an HD 2/3rds for the time being once i know it all works :) cheers paul

February 26th, 2008, 08:29 AM	#144
Farhad Towfiq Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 63	Paul, Yes, better focus on what we can sell now. Other sensors will be available. We make sure upgrades to new sensors will be a painless as possible.

February 26th, 2008, 09:59 PM	#146
Seth Kersey Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 26	Jose, Did you ever acquire the single board computer that was being discussed in your older thread and will you be testing the Sumix on it? Or will you be testing on a standard desktop or laptop? I look forward to seeing some sample videos from your testing!

February 27th, 2008, 07:15 AM	#147
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	For now I'll test it using my laptop. In a couple of months I'll buy a Mini-ITX based computer and a couple of HDDs so I can have an independent camera.

March 13th, 2008, 05:28 AM	#148
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	I've got news... Not about the camera, sorry, but I just received my new Computar 2/3" C-Mount zoom. I have to say I'm quite impressed with it. I haven't been able to test it yet, since I don't have the camera, but it looks fantastic. It's a 12,5-75mm F1.2 zoom and those are 35mm equivalents, so they're real measures for 2/3" sensors. It looks even more solid than many of my canon EOS lenses, lol. Kinda like the feel of an old FD lens but brand new. To those of you who question the option of using C-Mount machine vision lenses for film shooting, I have to say this lens has removed all possible doubts from my mind. The usual complaints about these kind of C-Mount lenses are small diameter and fixed positions when adjusting the iris (in most lenses you may notice a little "click" when going from one position to another). In this lens, the three rings are very smooth. And I mean VERY. On the other hand people complain about c-mount diameters because they are too small to control the focus. This lens is closer to 35mm in terms of size, so focusing is not a hard task. In fact I was really impressed with the size. Having used the lens from my first Micron demo board, I expected this one to be much smaller and definitely not this heavy. This' going to look fantastic with a followfocus and a mattebox. As soon as I get the camera, I'll post more things about the lens.

March 13th, 2008, 05:39 AM	#149
Paul Curtis Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canterbury Posts: 411	I've been testing a number of lenses on a camera here to try and understand real world results. I've got 16mm lenses, EF-cmount adaptor and a 25mm f1.4 fujinon machine vision lens. Bottom line is im impressed with the fujinon, good feeling, 180 degrees of focus, nice image - bit soft on the edges but on a 2/3rds you probably wouldn't see that (im using a 1" sensor). This is compared to an old T2 cooke 25mm, switar f.16 10mm and various canon lenses (10-22mm works nicely for example) I would love to see some images from that computar, it's on my hit list too. Would like to see how soft at f1.2 vs f4 for example. My feeling is that the glass in these lines probably isn't that different to fujinons digital cinema offerings. I mean there's probably 20x the price difference and certainly not 20 times a better image cheers paul

March 13th, 2008, 08:39 AM	#150
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	I will be getting the SMX-12A2C camera this week. Our production team is meeting up this Saturday which will be a great opportunity to test the camera. We have a short film project coming up in the next 3-4 weeks and if ready, I plan to use the SMX-12A2C. I will start putting together an interface and writing software for it on Sunday.