Sound Devices: 302 versus MixPre

Martin Pauly · August 24th, 2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

You can also buy the cords made up from Sound Devices.

Ty,

do you have a product identifier or part number for such cables? I did bite the bullet and got an SD302 earlier this week, and it seems great so far. But I am trying to hook it up to both the camera (using the XLRs) and a secondary audio recorder (using the TA3). The closest I could find was what Sound Devices calls "XL-3", which is a 3.5mm male to TA3 female adapter cable. To feed this into my portable recorder, which at this time is the small but effective M-Audio MicroTrack, I would need to split the 3.5mm stereo (or the TA3 stereo) up into two mono phone plugs that can go into the recorder. I already got the XL-3 cable, and when I set the SD302 to a very low output level I can plug it into the MicroTrack's 3.5mm mic input, but of course this is not the ideal solution because I want to bypass the preamps in the MicroTrack recorder and feed it a line level signal (which, as I understand, I can do only when using the phone plug inputs).

A brief search has not revealed anything of this sort. Any idea where I should look, or is this the time where I look for my soldering iron and build something myself?

Thanks,

Martin

Steve House · August 24th, 2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pauly

Ty,

do you have a product identifier or part number for such cables? I did bite the bullet and got an SD302 earlier this week, and it seems great so far. But I am trying to hook it up to both the camera (using the XLRs) and a secondary audio recorder (using the TA3). The closest I could find was what Sound Devices calls "XL-3", which is a 3.5mm male to TA3 female adapter cable. To feed this into my portable recorder, which at this time is the small but effective M-Audio MicroTrack, I would need to split the 3.5mm stereo (or the TA3 stereo) up into two mono phone plugs that can go into the recorder. I already got the XL-3 cable, and when I set the SD302 to a very low output level I can plug it into the MicroTrack's 3.5mm mic input, but of course this is not the ideal solution because I want to bypass the preamps in the MicroTrack recorder and feed it a line level signal (which, as I understand, I can do only when using the phone plug inputs).

A brief search has not revealed anything of this sort. Any idea where I should look, or is this the time where I look for my soldering iron and build something myself?

Thanks,

Martin

How about a Sound Devices XL-7 (TA3F -> 3.5mm TRS-F) plus a 3.5 M -> 2 x 1/4 M Y-cable such as the Hosa CMP-153 in lieu of soldering your own.

Martin Pauly · August 24th, 2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

How about a Sound Devices XL-7 (TA3F -> 3.5mm TRS-F) plus a 3.5 F -> 2 x 1/4 M Y-cable such as the Hosa CMP-153 in lieu of soldering your own.

Yes, that'll work great! Thanks!

- Martin

Brooks Harrington · August 24th, 2007, 05:45 PM

They don't make the TA3F split to two 1/4 phone plugs. I had to make my own, that's why I said PITA. I ended up cutting up some generic RCA cables, as this was the only size that fit the large hole TA3 and had each channel individually shielded. I didn't want to include the female mini-male mini connection, as this is one connection that will have an intermitent problem. I've got my 302 going out via TA3 to Fostex FR2-LE for backup.
Just don't look at all the plastic.!!! It works pretty good. Still allows main out routed to camera. Only beef about the mixer is...no 1/4 headphone jack! Mixpre has 1/4 headphone jack. Can't stand the mini.

Steven Fokkinga · August 25th, 2007, 02:54 AM

For what it's worth, I had contact with Sound Devices and they told me that the audio quality of the mixpre, 302 and 442 is the same. The (many) differences are in the features.

TingSern Wong · August 25th, 2007, 03:57 AM

Steven,

Thanks for confirming what I am hearing from my two mixers (422 and MixPre). The sounds are identical in output. Only the features are different.

****

Sometimes, I record to both my HVX202 and Sound Devices 722 recorder. No in-camera audio can do 24 bits today - but the 722 can. The difference in dynamic range between 16 bits and 24 bits must be heard to be believed. Input from mics through 422 mixer, and output to both HVX202 and 722.

I then sync the audio from 722 (after editing the audio and down-sampling to 16 bits - using Sound Forge software) - and folks always asked me "Why your camera's sounds are so good?" .... :-).

Ty Ford · August 25th, 2007, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pauly

Ty,

do you have a product identifier or part number for such cables? I did bite the bullet and got an SD302 earlier this week, and it seems great so far.

A brief search has not revealed anything of this sort. Any idea where I should look, or is this the time where I look for my soldering iron and build something myself?

Thanks,

Martin

Hello Martin,
If they are not at
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/accessories.htm

Call Sound Devices directly.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Brooks Harrington · August 28th, 2007, 09:01 AM

Quality of pres the same.... but 422 has output transformers while the mixpre and 302 are electronically balanced. FWIW

TingSern Wong · August 28th, 2007, 09:14 AM

Hmmm, very interesting. I have both the MixPre and 442 (not 422) ... It goes some way to explain why the 442 is so heavy compared with MixPre. Somehow, the output from both mixers (coming from identical sources) are almost identical. I would expect 442 to outperform the MixPre - now that I know it uses output transformers. Maybe something else is at play here.

Vvicente Villaescusa · November 6th, 2008, 10:21 AM

Forgive my ignorance, but what sort of situations would you use the output (mic position) of the 302 for? I have always been told to go into the camera as line, so to avoid the preamps on the camera (?), Is there something else? Ok, maybe if the camera doesnt accept line, just mic, but then wouldnt you be using the preamp of the camera too?

It would be amazing if the 302 had the possibility of a 10 pin hirose output breakaway cable...

I am planning to do record sound with the 302 using the double system, L-R outputs to the in puts of the camera, and the tape out to an external recorder (Tascam hd p2), would it be with a cable TA3 to RCA (stereo)?

Any help would be really appreciate it
Thanks

Marco Leavitt · November 6th, 2008, 06:41 PM

"what sort of situations would you use the output (mic position) of the 302"

Some cameras, like the XL2, don't have line inputs, although I use attenuators in that situation so I'm at least running a line level to the camera (it's safer). Some wireless transmitters, like the AT1800 series, will only take a mic level input as well. Also, some cameras have non-standard line inputs so it's easier to match the impedance with mic level, but that's kind of rare.

Lee Sharp · November 22nd, 2009, 11:54 AM

The 302, has input and output limiters, 2 stage gain, upto +20dbu meter, tone and slate, 2 XLR out, VU/Dbu meter is color coded for line and peak, but shows the entire headroom too
Is roughly about 5 years old.

The SQN has 1 channel extra, only one stage gain but attenuator from -10, -20, no input limiters but 40:1 output limiters, 2xlr output and 10pin hirose, could be upto 15 years old
PPM meter means you mix to broadcast standards, but does not register the headroom after. It doesnt have a slate mic.

They both have the same panning and hi pass options.

Tough call opinions welcomed!!!!!

Lee

August 24th, 2007, 05:45 PM	#34
Brooks Harrington Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 152	They don't make the TA3F split to two 1/4 phone plugs. I had to make my own, that's why I said PITA. I ended up cutting up some generic RCA cables, as this was the only size that fit the large hole TA3 and had each channel individually shielded. I didn't want to include the female mini-male mini connection, as this is one connection that will have an intermitent problem. I've got my 302 going out via TA3 to Fostex FR2-LE for backup. Just don't look at all the plastic.!!! It works pretty good. Still allows main out routed to camera. Only beef about the mixer is...no 1/4 headphone jack! Mixpre has 1/4 headphone jack. Can't stand the mini. Last edited by Brooks Harrington; August 24th, 2007 at 05:51 PM. Reason: Add information

November 22nd, 2009, 11:54 AM	#42
Lee Sharp Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: England Posts: 27	Which mixer is best SD 302 or SQN 4SIIIa??!?!?!?!?! The 302, has input and output limiters, 2 stage gain, upto +20dbu meter, tone and slate, 2 XLR out, VU/Dbu meter is color coded for line and peak, but shows the entire headroom too Is roughly about 5 years old. The SQN has 1 channel extra, only one stage gain but attenuator from -10, -20, no input limiters but 40:1 output limiters, 2xlr output and 10pin hirose, could be upto 15 years old PPM meter means you mix to broadcast standards, but does not register the headroom after. It doesnt have a slate mic. They both have the same panning and hi pass options. Tough call opinions welcomed!!!!! Lee

August 25th, 2007, 02:54 AM	#35
Steven Fokkinga Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 204	For what it's worth, I had contact with Sound Devices and they told me that the audio quality of the mixpre, 302 and 442 is the same. The (many) differences are in the features.

August 25th, 2007, 03:57 AM	#36
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Steven, Thanks for confirming what I am hearing from my two mixers (422 and MixPre). The sounds are identical in output. Only the features are different. **** Sometimes, I record to both my HVX202 and Sound Devices 722 recorder. No in-camera audio can do 24 bits today - but the 722 can. The difference in dynamic range between 16 bits and 24 bits must be heard to be believed. Input from mics through 422 mixer, and output to both HVX202 and 722. I then sync the audio from 722 (after editing the audio and down-sampling to 16 bits - using Sound Forge software) - and folks always asked me "Why your camera's sounds are so good?" .... :-).

August 28th, 2007, 09:01 AM	#38
Brooks Harrington Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 152	Quality of pres the same.... but 422 has output transformers while the mixpre and 302 are electronically balanced. FWIW

August 28th, 2007, 09:14 AM	#39
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Hmmm, very interesting. I have both the MixPre and 442 (not 422) ... It goes some way to explain why the 442 is so heavy compared with MixPre. Somehow, the output from both mixers (coming from identical sources) are almost identical. I would expect 442 to outperform the MixPre - now that I know it uses output transformers. Maybe something else is at play here.

November 6th, 2008, 10:21 AM	#40
Vvicente Villaescusa Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 52	Forgive my ignorance, but what sort of situations would you use the output (mic position) of the 302 for? I have always been told to go into the camera as line, so to avoid the preamps on the camera (?), Is there something else? Ok, maybe if the camera doesnt accept line, just mic, but then wouldnt you be using the preamp of the camera too? It would be amazing if the 302 had the possibility of a 10 pin hirose output breakaway cable... I am planning to do record sound with the 302 using the double system, L-R outputs to the in puts of the camera, and the tape out to an external recorder (Tascam hd p2), would it be with a cable TA3 to RCA (stereo)? Any help would be really appreciate it Thanks

November 6th, 2008, 06:41 PM	#41
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	"what sort of situations would you use the output (mic position) of the 302" Some cameras, like the XL2, don't have line inputs, although I use attenuators in that situation so I'm at least running a line level to the camera (it's safer). Some wireless transmitters, like the AT1800 series, will only take a mic level input as well. Also, some cameras have non-standard line inputs so it's easier to match the impedance with mic level, but that's kind of rare.