Need your opinions please

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

I also would like to see the Sennheiser MKH-70 included in the test.

Hi Dan:

Appreciate your input but this article will only compare short shotguns, hyper and super cardioids. I feel that long guns should be a separate article since almost all of the companies I am reviewing also offer long guns too. But I can't test and review 30 mics, I am trying to hold it down to around 10.

I own an MKH-70. Great mic but honestly, it's so specialized, I rarely use it.

Dan

[Guy Cochran]

Hi Dan,

Sounds like fun.
I performed a similar test on a variety of shotguns awhile back. You can find the examples here http://dvestore.com/theatre/mics.html

Based on the feedback we got from the shotgun mic testing, we found that people wanted to hear side rejection and greater subject to mic distances. We just shot in a studio at a fixed distance to focus on the actual sound quality and self noise of the mic. It seems like a lot of folks commented on the fact that they wanted to hear what happens when you're off-axis and rotate the mic so hopefully you might be able to add that to your testing. I'm glad to see you're taking this one on and I'm sure everyone will appreciate your article.

If you have any trouble getting any Sennheiser, Countryman, Audio Technica or RODE mics, I'd be happy to personally loan you anything you need or utilize our contacts to assist in making sure you're taken care of.

Good luck,

[Bill Davis]

Dan,

OK, since you asked, here's what I'd want to know from the lav tests.

Sensitivity - I do a lot of work in retail stores, and I often reach for LESS sensitive lavs (like an ECM-44 instead of a 77) precisely because it has less sensitivity and reach and it picks up less crowd/shopping cart rattle.

I'd also put ALL of them behind a silk tie worn under a sport coat and see how they respond to clothing noise. While you're at it, rub the cables and see how their self noise and mechanical damping holds up.

Also plunk them chest center on a nose breather - Some lav tend to FLUMPF under direct attack from nose-wind.

Test not only the crispness and high end for speach clarity, but check out their low frequency response. A lot of lavs sound nice and clear on the upper midrange and highs, but the tiny diaphrams don't always do so good for a rich, resonant voice - or conversly they make women with voices in a higher register sound harsh or shrill.

I'm not trying to drive you crazy with work, but those are all things that have made me switch lavs in the past.

And I think, if you only test them on ONE voice, you're not getting the whole story.

Finally, I'd look into how much they sting you to replace their darn little specialized clips and micro-windscreens! The damn things ALWAYS get lost and they're typically MUCHO expensive to replace!

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

Have a great time testing, amigo.

[Dan Brockett]

Hi Bill:

Long time, no talk. Hope all is well.

All GREAT suggestions below, I will try to execute as many of them as I can. I guess I am spoiled by the Countryman B6 now, I never have to hide lavs behind clothes anymore, the element is tiny enough to place in the hair, behind a button, almost anywhere. Love that mic.

Looking forward to dipping into this one as soon as I get my paws on all of the mics. It's quite a job just getting test samples, so far.

Best,

Dan

Originally Posted by Bill Davis

Dan,

OK, since you asked, here's what I'd want to know from the lav tests.

Sensitivity - I do a lot of work in retail stores, and I often reach for LESS sensitive lavs (like an ECM-44 instead of a 77) precisely because it has less sensitivity and reach and it picks up less crowd/shopping cart rattle.

I'd also put ALL of them behind a silk tie worn under a sport coat and see how they respond to clothing noise. While you're at it, rub the cables and see how their self noise and mechanical damping holds up.

Also plunk them chest center on a nose breather - Some lav tend to FLUMPF under direct attack from nose-wind.

Test not only the crispness and high end for speach clarity, but check out their low frequency response. A lot of lavs sound nice and clear on the upper midrange and highs, but the tiny diaphrams don't always do so good for a rich, resonant voice - or conversly they make women with voices in a higher register sound harsh or shrill.

I'm not trying to drive you crazy with work, but those are all things that have made me switch lavs in the past.

And I think, if you only test them on ONE voice, you're not getting the whole story.

Finally, I'd look into how much they sting you to replace their darn little specialized clips and micro-windscreens! The damn things ALWAYS get lost and they're typically MUCHO expensive to replace!

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

Have a great time testing, amigo.

[Anna Harmon]

Hey Don,

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread but did you ever do this?

[Eric Darling]

It was just posted on January 7 - http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage..._brockett.html

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Eric Darling

It was just posted on January 7 - http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage..._brockett.html

Thanks Eric for the link. Anna, yes, this mic article is getting a lot of views and I am in the middle of doing the lavaliere version. It will be the same format but I will obviously test below clothing, above clothing, male, female, cable noise and will also comment on how each lav might intercut with a shotgun or cardioid.

Enjoy!

Dan

[Eric Darling]

It's a very good article, Dan, and thanks for doing it. It is difficult to speak scientifically about a subject that can be so subjective on various aspects. I must say that your sample recordings were really important in helping me make my choice, so again, thanks for doing those along with the article.

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Eric Darling

It's a very good article, Dan, and thanks for doing it. It is difficult to speak scientifically about a subject that can be so subjective on various aspects. I must say that your sample recordings were really important in helping me make my choice, so again, thanks for doing those along with the article.

Thanks Eric, I am glad it was helpful in choosing the right microphone for you. Which one did you end up deciding on?

Best,

Dan

[Eric Darling]

I elected to stay within my budget of $1,000, so I went with the Sanken CS-1. I really don't have a lot of outdoor boom needs, so I'm not bothered by the extra "air" that you found in your test. Still, if I had to use it outside, I wouldn't mind - it's a far bit better than what I have been using (an old Sony ECM-672). The vocal quality and richness of detail were still there, even with the environmental ambiance. I really don't mind ambiance as much as some other recordists do - if the sound is natural, I'll take extra ambiance over sterility.

Of course, I realized as I was making my purchasing plans yesterday that I'd need to also update my boom mount since the mic has a different diameter, and also a new wind jammer. That might be something to make a bigger point on in the article - that a shotgun upgrade will probably mandate additional accessories since not all shotguns share the same diameter, length, and handling characteristics. It seems obvious to me now, but somehow, I was thinking I'd just use the Rycote Softie and mount I have loved for years with my old shotgun. Not so - they won't fit!

[Thomas Barclay]

Hey Dan

I just gave kudos to you in another thread but your articles was so awesome I figured I would say it again. I ran into your article last night in my usual scan of my favorite sites, Ken Stone being one of them. I am completely impressed. I have never visited the audio side of DV info so I had no idea you were going to do it.

I think you did a very thorough test. Great collection of microphones. Loved all the various photo's too. I am eager to read and hear the next review for the lavs.

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Eric Darling

I elected to stay within my budget of $1,000, so I went with the Sanken CS-1. I really don't have a lot of outdoor boom needs, so I'm not bothered by the extra "air" that you found in your test. Still, if I had to use it outside, I wouldn't mind - it's a far bit better than what I have been using (an old Sony ECM-672). The vocal quality and richness of detail were still there, even with the environmental ambiance. I really don't mind ambiance as much as some other recordists do - if the sound is natural, I'll take extra ambiance over sterility.

Of course, I realized as I was making my purchasing plans yesterday that I'd need to also update my boom mount since the mic has a different diameter, and also a new wind jammer. That might be something to make a bigger point on in the article - that a shotgun upgrade will probably mandate additional accessories since not all shotguns share the same diameter, length, and handling characteristics. It seems obvious to me now, but somehow, I was thinking I'd just use the Rycote Softie and mount I have loved for years with my old shotgun. Not so - they won't fit!

Hi Eric:

Yes, I ran into that when testing. All of these mics had different diameter, weird shapes and lengths. I used about ten different mic mounts in testing.
I will be doing a completely separate article in the future on mounts, boom poles and wind protection. There some cool new mounts out too that only the audio guys with the secret handshake seem to know about, I am looking forward to writing about those and showing them to the camera side of the world ;-)

You will be happy with your CS-1. I agree, in many circumstances, I too favor a little more ambient sound, but it just depends on what the ambient is. There are times when it's also nice to have something like the Neumann KMR81i or the Schoeps CMIT5u and just zap everything outside your talent. I bet at some point, you will end up with two mics, anyone who is serious probably leans that way since none of these mics are perfect in every circumstance.

Thanks for the kind words.

Dan

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Thomas Barclay

Hey Dan

I just gave kudos to you in another thread but your articles was so awesome I figured I would say it again. I ran into your article last night in my usual scan of my favorite sites, Ken Stone being one of them. I am completely impressed. I have never visited the audio side of DV info so I had no idea you were going to do it.

I think you did a very thorough test. Great collection of microphones. Loved all the various photo's too. I am eager to read and hear the next review for the lavs.

Hi Thomas:

I really appreciate your input, it is very much more enjoyable as a writer when you know that your audience likes what you are writing ;-)

Ken's site is amazing, he is a true uncelebrated gift to the film/video world. He does all of this basically because he likes to share knowledge, he makes no money from his site.

The lavs are trickling in. I received the PSC Millimic today! haven't heard a peep back from DPA, Sony, Countryman. Have mics coming so far from PSC, Sonotrim, Tram, Sennheiser, Audio-Technica. Need to get more of them to respond. This is the fun part (not), pestering reps and companies to give you the time of day and send you review samples.

Thanks again,

Dan

[Jack Walker]

I see that Lectrosonics M150 and M152 are in the rental houses. Is either of these mics worth reviewing? I don't know how widespread the use is.

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

I see that Lectrosonics M150 and M152 are in the rental houses. Is either of these mics worth reviewing? I don't know how widespread the use is.

Do you know if those can be ordered hardwired? We are only testing hardwired mics this go around so that we can concentrate on the pure sound of the mic element without the distractions of wireless issues. I will eventually cover wireless in another article.

Best,

Dan