need clarity on wireless lav kits at DVinfo.net

Henry Cho · July 3rd, 2007, 06:42 PM

i've been reasonably happy with my sennheiser g2 kits. i've been using me2 omni lavs with the g2s, and while i find this setup fine for my general work, it does sound a little harsh and tinny to me.

i'm trying my hand at a narrative this fall and i'm currently blocking out some stuff where one or two wireless lav mics would be ideal. i want my audio to be spot on, so i'm thinking of upgrading my wireless kits. i've listened to a countryman lav on a lectrosonic system some time ago, and, in comparison to the g2/me4, it sounded amazing, if memory serves me correctly -- significantly warmer and richer.

is the difference in audio quality more a function of the lavs than the systems? ideally, i'd like to grab a couple of countryman b6s, attach them to my g2 kits and be done with it. would it make for a significant boost in audio quality if i replaced my g2 kits and rented some lectro ones?

finally, i would appreciate it greatly if someone could explain (slowly) how to make a proper "broadcast loop".

Ty Ford · July 4th, 2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Cho

i've been reasonably happy with my sennheiser g2 kits. i've been using me2 omni lavs with the g2s, and while i find this setup fine for my general work, it does sound a little harsh and tinny to me.

i'm trying my hand at a narrative this fall and i'm currently blocking out some stuff where one or two wireless lav mics would be ideal. i want my audio to be spot on, so i'm thinking of upgrading my wireless kits. i've listened to a countryman lav on a lectrosonic system some time ago, and, in comparison to the g2/me4, it sounded amazing, if memory serves me correctly -- significantly warmer and richer.

is the difference in audio quality more a function of the lavs than the systems? ideally, i'd like to grab a couple of countryman b6s, attach them to my g2 kits and be done with it. would it make for a significant boost in audio quality if i replaced my g2 kits and rented some lectro ones?

finally, i would appreciate it greatly if someone could explain (slowly) how to make a proper "broadcast loop".

Hello Henry,

Could be the mics, not the wireless rig. Could be the mixer or something els...like the voice itself!

Better mics do make a difference. The mic/wireless match is a little spooky sometimes. The AT mics that came with my AT wireless do have a certain sound because of the way they mate with the mic pre in the wireless. They are surprisingly good. I normally use Countryman EMW, B6 and E6 and have been very happy with the way they match to my AT U100 wireless.

Before you go Lectro (and they do make fine wireless) try a countryman on you Sennheisers.

If you're in REALLY, REALLY quiet areas, you'll probably a bit more selfnoise with the B6, E6, because their diaphragms are so small. The EMW are bigger mics with larger diaphragms. The generate a bit more voltage. The foam pop filters are a bit fussy. I normally take a thin strip of G-tape and create a collar to keep them on the mics.

The EMW are side address mics, they point out away from the body resulting in a more "natural" sound. End-address mics like the B6 give a more direct sound because they are usually (but not always) mounted with the mic pointed AT the mouth.

Of course, you can hide a naked B6 very easily unless you're outside and need wind breakers.

I'm not sure what you mean by Broadcast Loop, can you explain further?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Dan Keaton · July 4th, 2007, 07:15 AM

Dear Henry,

Yes, you can definitely improve your audio quality by upgrading your lavaliere microphone.

I recently upgraded to a Tram TR-50's. I was amazed at the improvement.

Others like the Sanken Cos-11. I tried them both in a side by side comparison and liked the Tram's better. I expected the Sanken Cos-11 to sound better, as did the dealer. However, both the dealer and I agreed that the Tram TR-50 actually sounded better under our test conditions.

Although it is counter-intuitive, when testing the Tram TR-50 using the "Vampire" clip and other accessories, position the microphone element to point towards the clip, and not to the open air.

I expect to purchase a Countryman in the future for the unmatched ability to hid it during use. However, I believe that it is more sensitive to plosives.

If possible, I recommend that you audition the microphones.

David Ennis · July 4th, 2007, 07:35 AM

Dan, although you weren't explicit about it, can we assume that you were talking about using the Tram with a Senn G2?

Heiko Saele · July 4th, 2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

I've listened to a countryman lav on a lectrosonic system some time ago, and, in comparison to the g2/me4, it sounded amazing

We upgraded our studio wireless mics recently and got two countryman headset-type mics for our cooking show. They sound so much better than our mke-2 (with the evolution transmitters that we continue to use)
The countryman pick up a lot less noise, of course, but they also sound really full and rich. The sound quality of the cooking show is like 500% better now with the countryman than with the mke-2 lavs.

Dan Keaton · July 4th, 2007, 07:50 AM

Dear David,

Yes. I feel that the Tram TR-50 is dramatically better than the ME-2 supplied with the Sennheiser Wireless.

I have the Tram TR-50 which has a battery operator power supply and an XLR output. I also have a cable which plugs into the microphone input of the Sennheiser Wireless and has an XLR connector at the other end.

The above allows me to use the Tram TR-50 with the Sennheiser Wireless transmitter or hard wired to an XLR input (with or without phantom power).

Jim Boda · July 4th, 2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Cho

i've been reasonably happy with my sennheiser g2 kits. i've been using me2 omni lavs with the g2s, and while i find this setup fine for my general work, it does sound a little harsh and tinny to me.

i'm trying my hand at a narrative this fall and i'm currently blocking out some stuff where one or two wireless lav mics would be ideal. i want my audio to be spot on, so i'm thinking of upgrading my wireless kits. i've listened to a countryman lav on a lectrosonic system some time ago, and, in comparison to the g2/me4, it sounded amazing, if memory serves me correctly -- significantly warmer and richer.

is the difference in audio quality more a function of the lavs than the systems? ideally, i'd like to grab a couple of countryman b6s, attach them to my g2 kits and be done with it. would it make for a significant boost in audio quality if i replaced my g2 kits and rented some lectro ones?

finally, i would appreciate it greatly if someone could explain (slowly) how to make a proper "broadcast loop".

The Countryman B6 and Sanken COS11 are good mics to have in the audio kit...especially w/ the increasing need to hide the lavs. Hopefully, you are also planning to double mic with a good boom mic or would consider adding that in the future. The difference between a lav and a good shotgun mic can be dramatic.

I would asume that the "broadcast loop" is the strain relief loop commonly used in TV News. Not much to it...if you are clipping to the left lapel then loop it to the right and bring it to the top of the clip and drop it inside the clip so that the mic clip secures the cable to the back of the clothing.

Add a couple of vampire clips, surgical tape, and moleskin to your kit.

Henry Cho · July 4th, 2007, 12:18 PM

jim, you're correct... the relief strain loop you described is what i was referring to.

i'm going to try and get a hold of some of the lavs mentioned for a listen. that's some great, great info guys. thank you.

July 3rd, 2007, 06:42 PM	#1
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	need clarity on wireless lav kits i've been reasonably happy with my sennheiser g2 kits. i've been using me2 omni lavs with the g2s, and while i find this setup fine for my general work, it does sound a little harsh and tinny to me. i'm trying my hand at a narrative this fall and i'm currently blocking out some stuff where one or two wireless lav mics would be ideal. i want my audio to be spot on, so i'm thinking of upgrading my wireless kits. i've listened to a countryman lav on a lectrosonic system some time ago, and, in comparison to the g2/me4, it sounded amazing, if memory serves me correctly -- significantly warmer and richer. is the difference in audio quality more a function of the lavs than the systems? ideally, i'd like to grab a couple of countryman b6s, attach them to my g2 kits and be done with it. would it make for a significant boost in audio quality if i replaced my g2 kits and rented some lectro ones? finally, i would appreciate it greatly if someone could explain (slowly) how to make a proper "broadcast loop".

July 4th, 2007, 07:15 AM	#3
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Henry, Yes, you can definitely improve your audio quality by upgrading your lavaliere microphone. I recently upgraded to a Tram TR-50's. I was amazed at the improvement. Others like the Sanken Cos-11. I tried them both in a side by side comparison and liked the Tram's better. I expected the Sanken Cos-11 to sound better, as did the dealer. However, both the dealer and I agreed that the Tram TR-50 actually sounded better under our test conditions. Although it is counter-intuitive, when testing the Tram TR-50 using the "Vampire" clip and other accessories, position the microphone element to point towards the clip, and not to the open air. I expect to purchase a Countryman in the future for the unmatched ability to hid it during use. However, I believe that it is more sensitive to plosives. If possible, I recommend that you audition the microphones. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 4th, 2007, 07:35 AM	#4
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Dan, although you weren't explicit about it, can we assume that you were talking about using the Tram with a Senn G2? __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

July 4th, 2007, 07:50 AM	#6
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear David, Yes. I feel that the Tram TR-50 is dramatically better than the ME-2 supplied with the Sennheiser Wireless. I have the Tram TR-50 which has a battery operator power supply and an XLR output. I also have a cable which plugs into the microphone input of the Sennheiser Wireless and has an XLR connector at the other end. The above allows me to use the Tram TR-50 with the Sennheiser Wireless transmitter or hard wired to an XLR input (with or without phantom power). __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 4th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#8
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	jim, you're correct... the relief strain loop you described is what i was referring to. i'm going to try and get a hold of some of the lavs mentioned for a listen. that's some great, great info guys. thank you.