FX-7 advice for newbie

Chris Leong · May 3rd, 2007, 01:14 PM

Mike

I've used similar, but not this one.

As I've said, go to your nearest Radio Shack and pick up their electret lav, Cat# 33-3013, $25.00, and maybe one of their mini plug headphone extension cords # 42-2482 up to # 42-2566, between $7 and $18 or so, depending on length.

Plug the mic into your FX7 at the shop and see if you like it. If so, you're good to go. If not, exchange it for something else.

Mike Donovan · May 3rd, 2007, 02:31 PM

I actually have that lav from radio shack! i didn't think it was that great b/c it was not a stereo mic. is that something you can just fix later?
I thought that mic wouldn't be the best choice to use with this new camera...do most higher end wired lav mics have xlr plugs or 1/8"
Heck if i can get away with not spending another $100+ on a mic i'll be more than happy to use that lav!

Chris Leong · May 3rd, 2007, 04:26 PM

Mike

Sad to say it, but most dialog these days is mono, up close and panned center.

The reason people shoot multiple tracks of audio (oops, that's my age talking, I've actually loaded an optical film camera for shooting audio...) is to get the best combination of raw audio for the edit. For instance, a pro will do maybe two lavs on tracks 1 and 2, a boom on 3 and a mix on 4. Then the editor will go back and pull the track or combination of tracks that work the best. But all the voices will go straight down the middle, center pan.

Of course that means that the voices will come equally out of both speakers, but that isn't stereo. Stereo is when the audio follows the actors from left to right of screen as their faces/bodies go from left to right. We stopped mixing that way quite a few years ago now, and only add a little of that side-to-side dialog for effect or to place an actor off screen deliberately so the audience can tell which (off screen) side he's on.

Also, in the olden days when the actors were far away, their voices were distant and reverberant too. Nowadays it's more often the case that the voices are right in your ear, regardless.

I believe it was the airlines that caused the switch, since most of their in-flight movie stuff used to be mono (remember those air-tube headsets?)
Of course, when you sum stereo into mono, you get phasing, which sounds bad, and if you only pull one channel (say, the left channel) and call that mono, then any voices, music or effects that were on the right channel now are much softer or are altogether lost.

So unless you're recording long shots, establishing shots, car, boat, or plane bys and need a true stereo perspective, most people use only the best voice track, panned center. i.e. a mono track.

If you're undecided, then you need a Sony ECM 737 or like mid-side stereo mic. This is the only kind of mic design, I believe, that will not give you a phased signal when you combine both stereo tracks to make a mono track.

Most of the onboard receivers that are cheaper and are designed for camcorder use come with mini plugs and not XLRs.

I just tried plugging the Radio Shack mic in and talking into it. It worked. As I said, I'd probably want to give it a bit more body, either using my Beachtek or in post, but otherwise it sounded clean and clear to me. How 'bout yours?

Just try it and record a bunch of yourself talking.
Then make a DVD of it and watch it on your set.
What do you think?

Mike Donovan · May 3rd, 2007, 04:52 PM

i'll give it a try! thanks so much for your help. quick question. any other good camera bags you'd recommend, couldn't find the one you referenced earlier.

AND, the more i'm reading everyone says get the rode ntg-3...are there any other hypercardiod mics that are just a little less $$ that can hold up?

Chris Leong · May 3rd, 2007, 11:05 PM

Mike

Here's the details for the Lowe Pro Magnum - this is a new one but you can get used since we all know that film/photography is dead... :)

ebay item number 280110969997 (current)

There are several flavors of this bag, you'd probably want the one made for a medium format camera.

Rodes are great mics. I've never used an NT3 myself - it looks good, though. A lot of musicians I know have them. How much can you get one for?

For the listed price, around $250, I'd personally go for an AT 835B short shotgun mic like this:

ebay 320094861875 (current)

But if you can get a great deal on one, then why not?

But you have a mic already, Mike. The RS lav.

Did you try it out? What does it sound like?

Or another way. If you're quiet, does it sound quiet? Is the sound crackly? Does it have drop outs? Is it hissy? Rumbly?

Or can you hear your voice on it pretty clearly? Clearly enough to hear exactly what you're saying?

Put it this way - I've been doing this awhile, it's been paying my rent and feeding my family, and I've worked on some pretty major productions.

All along, I've shot ADR and interview stuff with that humble RS mic, because mostly I know what they can and cannot do, and I know where to put them so they can do what they can, the best that they can. And I think I can make mine work pretty well by now, well enough that most people can't tell the difference, certainly not after a mix and

That's why I bought six of them - I was afraid people would tumble onto them and they'd sell out, or else nobody would tumble onto them and they'd be discontinued. Now actually, two of them have never even left their boxes, and two of them have been used on the couple of jobs I needed four lavs on.
I believe the second two are still on their first batteries. The first two have definitely been through the wars and they're still doing what they do.

Those two I bought are still in sandwich bags in the top flap of my camera bag, and I still use them on occasion when they're what's needed, which is around 5-10% of the time these days,

Around 85-90% of the time I use an old AKG C568 short shotgun on a boom (similar to the AT 835B I was talking about above) and the remaining 5% or so my old ECM 737 mid/side if I need that sound, for atmospheres, stereo sound effects and the like.

Does that tell you anything?

Chris Leong · May 4th, 2007, 01:25 PM

Just tried out a friend's NTG-3. Sounds great to me too.

Whichever you can get the best deal and good after sales service on, I'd say.

Jarrod Whaley · May 2nd, 2008, 04:05 PM

Several different posters here have been referring to the NT3 as the NTG-3. The NT3 is a hypercardioid, and the NTG-3 is a forthcoming short shotgun. These kinds of misunderstandings might confuse someone who's looking to buy, and might even lead him or her to purchase the wrong microphone.

So let's be careful about the nomenclature, eh? :)

By the way, the NT3 sounds great--just be aware that if you plan to pick up a mic for booming, the NT3 ain't it. It's a bit too heavy to hang on a boom.

May 3rd, 2007, 02:31 PM	#17
Mike Donovan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 52	wired lav I actually have that lav from radio shack! i didn't think it was that great b/c it was not a stereo mic. is that something you can just fix later? I thought that mic wouldn't be the best choice to use with this new camera...do most higher end wired lav mics have xlr plugs or 1/8" Heck if i can get away with not spending another $100+ on a mic i'll be more than happy to use that lav!

May 3rd, 2007, 04:52 PM	#19
Mike Donovan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 52	i'll give it a try! thanks so much for your help. quick question. any other good camera bags you'd recommend, couldn't find the one you referenced earlier. AND, the more i'm reading everyone says get the rode ntg-3...are there any other hypercardiod mics that are just a little less $$ that can hold up? Last edited by Mike Donovan; May 3rd, 2007 at 07:46 PM.

May 2nd, 2008, 04:05 PM	#22
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	Several different posters here have been referring to the NT3 as the NTG-3. The NT3 is a hypercardioid, and the NTG-3 is a forthcoming short shotgun. These kinds of misunderstandings might confuse someone who's looking to buy, and might even lead him or her to purchase the wrong microphone. So let's be careful about the nomenclature, eh? :) By the way, the NT3 sounds great--just be aware that if you plan to pick up a mic for booming, the NT3 ain't it. It's a bit too heavy to hang on a boom. __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com

May 3rd, 2007, 01:14 PM	#16
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Mike I've used similar, but not this one. As I've said, go to your nearest Radio Shack and pick up their electret lav, Cat# 33-3013, $25.00, and maybe one of their mini plug headphone extension cords # 42-2482 up to # 42-2566, between $7 and $18 or so, depending on length. Plug the mic into your FX7 at the shop and see if you like it. If so, you're good to go. If not, exchange it for something else.

May 3rd, 2007, 04:26 PM	#18
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Mike Sad to say it, but most dialog these days is mono, up close and panned center. The reason people shoot multiple tracks of audio (oops, that's my age talking, I've actually loaded an optical film camera for shooting audio...) is to get the best combination of raw audio for the edit. For instance, a pro will do maybe two lavs on tracks 1 and 2, a boom on 3 and a mix on 4. Then the editor will go back and pull the track or combination of tracks that work the best. But all the voices will go straight down the middle, center pan. Of course that means that the voices will come equally out of both speakers, but that isn't stereo. Stereo is when the audio follows the actors from left to right of screen as their faces/bodies go from left to right. We stopped mixing that way quite a few years ago now, and only add a little of that side-to-side dialog for effect or to place an actor off screen deliberately so the audience can tell which (off screen) side he's on. Also, in the olden days when the actors were far away, their voices were distant and reverberant too. Nowadays it's more often the case that the voices are right in your ear, regardless. I believe it was the airlines that caused the switch, since most of their in-flight movie stuff used to be mono (remember those air-tube headsets?) Of course, when you sum stereo into mono, you get phasing, which sounds bad, and if you only pull one channel (say, the left channel) and call that mono, then any voices, music or effects that were on the right channel now are much softer or are altogether lost. So unless you're recording long shots, establishing shots, car, boat, or plane bys and need a true stereo perspective, most people use only the best voice track, panned center. i.e. a mono track. If you're undecided, then you need a Sony ECM 737 or like mid-side stereo mic. This is the only kind of mic design, I believe, that will not give you a phased signal when you combine both stereo tracks to make a mono track. Most of the onboard receivers that are cheaper and are designed for camcorder use come with mini plugs and not XLRs. I just tried plugging the Radio Shack mic in and talking into it. It worked. As I said, I'd probably want to give it a bit more body, either using my Beachtek or in post, but otherwise it sounded clean and clear to me. How 'bout yours? Just try it and record a bunch of yourself talking. Then make a DVD of it and watch it on your set. What do you think?

May 3rd, 2007, 11:05 PM	#20
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Mike Here's the details for the Lowe Pro Magnum - this is a new one but you can get used since we all know that film/photography is dead... :) ebay item number 280110969997 (current) There are several flavors of this bag, you'd probably want the one made for a medium format camera. Rodes are great mics. I've never used an NT3 myself - it looks good, though. A lot of musicians I know have them. How much can you get one for? For the listed price, around $250, I'd personally go for an AT 835B short shotgun mic like this: ebay 320094861875 (current) But if you can get a great deal on one, then why not? But you have a mic already, Mike. The RS lav. Did you try it out? What does it sound like? Or another way. If you're quiet, does it sound quiet? Is the sound crackly? Does it have drop outs? Is it hissy? Rumbly? Or can you hear your voice on it pretty clearly? Clearly enough to hear exactly what you're saying? Put it this way - I've been doing this awhile, it's been paying my rent and feeding my family, and I've worked on some pretty major productions. All along, I've shot ADR and interview stuff with that humble RS mic, because mostly I know what they can and cannot do, and I know where to put them so they can do what they can, the best that they can. And I think I can make mine work pretty well by now, well enough that most people can't tell the difference, certainly not after a mix and That's why I bought six of them - I was afraid people would tumble onto them and they'd sell out, or else nobody would tumble onto them and they'd be discontinued. Now actually, two of them have never even left their boxes, and two of them have been used on the couple of jobs I needed four lavs on. I believe the second two are still on their first batteries. The first two have definitely been through the wars and they're still doing what they do. Those two I bought are still in sandwich bags in the top flap of my camera bag, and I still use them on occasion when they're what's needed, which is around 5-10% of the time these days, Around 85-90% of the time I use an old AKG C568 short shotgun on a boom (similar to the AT 835B I was talking about above) and the remaining 5% or so my old ECM 737 mid/side if I need that sound, for atmospheres, stereo sound effects and the like. Does that tell you anything?

May 4th, 2007, 01:25 PM	#21
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Just tried out a friend's NTG-3. Sounds great to me too. Whichever you can get the best deal and good after sales service on, I'd say.