Need Audio Recorder Advice at DVinfo.net

Dan Keaton · April 27th, 2003, 06:47 PM

I wish to record 4 to 8 separate microphones for a video/sound project. I have very good quality microphones.

I wish to record each microphone channel separately, one microphone, one channel, so I feel that I need a mutlichannel recorder, such as TASCAM DA-78HR.

Is there a better way? I like the idea of recording to tape, instead of recording to a hard-disk, due to the ability of easily puchasing additional tapes for additional storage.

I would welcome any suggestions.

Thank you.

K. Forman · April 27th, 2003, 08:11 PM

The Korg D12 is a HD recorder, with 4 XLR/ 1/4" inputs and 12 channels. It will hold up to 18 hrs of CD quality on 1 channel on its 4 1/2 gig drive. It also has the option of adding a CDR. Downside is, it has to be plugged in. Any power outages, and you will lose anything that isn't saved. Other than that, I loved it.

Jeff Donald · April 27th, 2003, 08:27 PM

Is this a studio setting or a field setting?

Dan Keaton · April 28th, 2003, 01:56 PM

Dear Jeff,

Mostly field settings.

I have the use of an auditorium for sound recordings, but since it is not my studio, I assume that you would consider it a field setting.

I would also like the flexibility of using the record in the field or in a studio, but it does not have to be portable, just luggable.

Erik J Na · April 28th, 2003, 04:35 PM

Dan,

more channel means more work and more problem. and obvioulsy, need to spend more money to set up. Tascam DA78HR is an excellent 24 bit DTRS machine. In order to use this with your cam, you need to have proper sync generator AD/DA device, such as UV22 installed apogee or other sample rate converter which dithers for 24bit 20/16bit word lenth without losing sound detail. and you need also a good mixdown machine as well as mixer. because your cam only accepts 16 bit digital audio.

front end setup is the most important part of tracking recording session. in other words, using right mic at right spot is the most important in order to get better (?!?) sound. personally, I prefer to use Harddisk based recorder rather than tape based, simply because its easy to access and fast. and I don't have to worry about media.

go to these sites and find out what you need for your gig.

http://www.proaudioreview.com/
http://www.mixonline.com/

hope it helps.

K. Forman · April 28th, 2003, 04:54 PM

I never had much problem with audio synch. I just lined up the audio/video ( In Premiere, as some other NLEs don't offer accurate frame audio wave representation) and listen for a certain phrase or sound at the beginning of the camera audio. I place a marker at that sound.

Then placing the secondary audio in it's track, I listen for the same thing. I move the audio to get it close, then expand to single frame view, and match the peaks in the wave forms. It may sound hard, but it is pretty simple.

Erik J Na · April 29th, 2003, 12:56 AM

Keith,

I was talking about word clock sync. not audio/video sync. ^-^

Ryan Martino · April 29th, 2003, 10:56 PM

dan -

if you want a great sounding tape based recorder, you could seek out a used Alesis ADAT. it's an 8 channel multitrack recorder that uses SVHS tapes to record on. i've seen them lately for about $400 and under, with not very many head hours on them. anything under 500 head hours is a good deal. this is what i plan to use on my film project. i already own two of them for my music studio. this could be a good solution for you - they sound every bit as good as hard disk, but the tape is cheap... 10 or 12 bucks a shot, and they last about 45 minutes. the downside? luggable, but fairly heavy. and you need a mixer with 8 mic pres to feed it. this would give you great sound and cheap storage, but the logistics of your setup will explode......

martino

drilldoc1 · May 14th, 2003, 12:37 PM

I went to a lecture from some gal that did weddings and she would put a number of minidisc recorders around the room to capture audio from various sources. She would use a clap or something like that before the wedding began to sync them in the timeline later on.

Alexis Vazquez · May 15th, 2003, 10:05 AM

Another option if you don't want to be running with a truck full of equipment at every video filming is to use a laptop, with a pro sound card as Layla from Echo company wich brings you 8 channels in and outs, 24 bits you can use it at the studio or anyplace (with an adapter), With only this and the mics, you'll be recording live directly to the computer. If you ad a mixing console you'll get more control also. Tascam machine are great but very sensitive and too heavy for carrying.

About the storage, get it with a DVDR.

Some sound card model that comes with 8 in and 8 outs are really 4 I/O in stereo mode, get more info first.

I mentioned Layla but I'm sure there must be other soundcards with this capabilities. Another good name in the audio field for sound card is MOTU.

Luck,

Alexis

Jacques Mersereau · May 15th, 2003, 12:26 PM

From reading your post, I assume by "good microphones" you are talking
about condensers, like Neumann and Schoeps, which require phantom power.

I just purchased a MOTU 896 interface to go with my G4 powerbook.
The 896 has 8 separate mic inputs, each with a mic pre and 48 volt
phantom switchable.

So far, so good. The audio is very very clean. Some people prefer a mic
pre that colors the sound, but you usually have to pay a lot more for that.

The Tascam you talked about is a solid machine, much better *imho*
than any adat. I think the DA-78HR also has video sync card in it, and if
it works as good as my trusty DA-88/sync card combo, then it will chase
timecode perfectly.

If you go with the Tascam, you'll need a sound board w/ individual channel
outputs, or set of mic preamps that supply phantom and
are as high a quality as your
microphones. When you price good gear like a Midas sound board or
a set of Grace preamps, you'll see that the MOTU/laptop combo is
a pretty good bargain.

April 27th, 2003, 06:47 PM	#1
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Need Audio Recorder Advice I wish to record 4 to 8 separate microphones for a video/sound project. I have very good quality microphones. I wish to record each microphone channel separately, one microphone, one channel, so I feel that I need a mutlichannel recorder, such as TASCAM DA-78HR. Is there a better way? I like the idea of recording to tape, instead of recording to a hard-disk, due to the ability of easily puchasing additional tapes for additional storage. I would welcome any suggestions. Thank you. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

April 27th, 2003, 08:27 PM	#3
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Is this a studio setting or a field setting? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 28th, 2003, 01:56 PM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Jeff, Mostly field settings. I have the use of an auditorium for sound recordings, but since it is not my studio, I assume that you would consider it a field setting. I would also like the flexibility of using the record in the field or in a studio, but it does not have to be portable, just luggable. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

April 28th, 2003, 04:35 PM	#5
Erik J Na Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Connecticut, US Posts: 29	Dan, more channel means more work and more problem. and obvioulsy, need to spend more money to set up. Tascam DA78HR is an excellent 24 bit DTRS machine. In order to use this with your cam, you need to have proper sync generator AD/DA device, such as UV22 installed apogee or other sample rate converter which dithers for 24bit 20/16bit word lenth without losing sound detail. and you need also a good mixdown machine as well as mixer. because your cam only accepts 16 bit digital audio. front end setup is the most important part of tracking recording session. in other words, using right mic at right spot is the most important in order to get better (?!?) sound. personally, I prefer to use Harddisk based recorder rather than tape based, simply because its easy to access and fast. and I don't have to worry about media. go to these sites and find out what you need for your gig. http://www.proaudioreview.com/ http://www.mixonline.com/ hope it helps. __________________ JN

April 29th, 2003, 12:56 AM	#7
Erik J Na Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Connecticut, US Posts: 29	Keith, I was talking about word clock sync. not audio/video sync. ^-^ __________________ JN

April 27th, 2003, 08:11 PM	#2
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	The Korg D12 is a HD recorder, with 4 XLR/ 1/4" inputs and 12 channels. It will hold up to 18 hrs of CD quality on 1 channel on its 4 1/2 gig drive. It also has the option of adding a CDR. Downside is, it has to be plugged in. Any power outages, and you will lose anything that isn't saved. Other than that, I loved it.

April 28th, 2003, 04:54 PM	#6
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I never had much problem with audio synch. I just lined up the audio/video ( In Premiere, as some other NLEs don't offer accurate frame audio wave representation) and listen for a certain phrase or sound at the beginning of the camera audio. I place a marker at that sound. Then placing the secondary audio in it's track, I listen for the same thing. I move the audio to get it close, then expand to single frame view, and match the peaks in the wave forms. It may sound hard, but it is pretty simple.

April 29th, 2003, 10:56 PM	#8
Ryan Martino Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 48	dan - if you want a great sounding tape based recorder, you could seek out a used Alesis ADAT. it's an 8 channel multitrack recorder that uses SVHS tapes to record on. i've seen them lately for about $400 and under, with not very many head hours on them. anything under 500 head hours is a good deal. this is what i plan to use on my film project. i already own two of them for my music studio. this could be a good solution for you - they sound every bit as good as hard disk, but the tape is cheap... 10 or 12 bucks a shot, and they last about 45 minutes. the downside? luggable, but fairly heavy. and you need a mixer with 8 mic pres to feed it. this would give you great sound and cheap storage, but the logistics of your setup will explode...... martino

May 14th, 2003, 12:37 PM	#9
drilldoc1 Registration Incomplete -- contact Admin. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 7	Mini Disc Recorders I went to a lecture from some gal that did weddings and she would put a number of minidisc recorders around the room to capture audio from various sources. She would use a clap or something like that before the wedding began to sync them in the timeline later on.

May 15th, 2003, 10:05 AM	#10
Alexis Vazquez Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: USA Posts: 188	Another option if you don't want to be running with a truck full of equipment at every video filming is to use a laptop, with a pro sound card as Layla from Echo company wich brings you 8 channels in and outs, 24 bits you can use it at the studio or anyplace (with an adapter), With only this and the mics, you'll be recording live directly to the computer. If you ad a mixing console you'll get more control also. Tascam machine are great but very sensitive and too heavy for carrying. About the storage, get it with a DVDR. Some sound card model that comes with 8 in and 8 outs are really 4 I/O in stereo mode, get more info first. I mentioned Layla but I'm sure there must be other soundcards with this capabilities. Another good name in the audio field for sound card is MOTU. Luck, Alexis

May 15th, 2003, 12:26 PM	#11
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	From reading your post, I assume by "good microphones" you are talking about condensers, like Neumann and Schoeps, which require phantom power. I just purchased a MOTU 896 interface to go with my G4 powerbook. The 896 has 8 separate mic inputs, each with a mic pre and 48 volt phantom switchable. So far, so good. The audio is very very clean. Some people prefer a mic pre that colors the sound, but you usually have to pay a lot more for that. The Tascam you talked about is a solid machine, much better imho than any adat. I think the DA-78HR also has video sync card in it, and if it works as good as my trusty DA-88/sync card combo, then it will chase timecode perfectly. If you go with the Tascam, you'll need a sound board w/ individual channel outputs, or set of mic preamps that supply phantom and are as high a quality as your microphones. When you price good gear like a Midas sound board or a set of Grace preamps, you'll see that the MOTU/laptop combo is a pretty good bargain. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager