XLR Connection

Dearl Golden · March 5th, 2007, 10:27 AM

On page 48 of the manual, under "Connecting To The XLR Terminal", the third bullet under #2 states...."Use commercially available microphones with a cable no longer than 3m".

My question....What if your situation requires a longer run?

Arthur Kay · March 5th, 2007, 10:43 AM

Then use a longer cable *lol*

Seriously though, I know why they are saying that. Probably the built-in preamp of the A1 cannot deliver enough clean gain.
I will test this this evening... have a A1 too.
Anyway I would always recommend a small field mixer. They usually have stronger and better preamps. Or a seperate preamp. I use a small Apogee, but I do not record the sound in the camera, I use a mobile ProTools rig.

You can always try to go up to 10 meter. If you notice you need too much extra gain or things become too noisy, use an external preamp.
Also, use a good quality mic cable. I use generally cables from Mogami. Excellent quality and still cheaper than the silly hyped Monster stuff.

Cheers
Arthur

Dearl Golden · March 5th, 2007, 11:04 AM

In my youth, I might have slapped a 100 footer on it and never looked back. However....those days are behind me and I'm a tad more cautious these days. I'm relatively new to "big time" video and an absolute newbie in audio. I just don't want to short/blow something out/void warranty.

All replies appreciated. (Even humorous ones)

Aaron Pinto · March 8th, 2007, 07:07 PM

I'm no audio pro either but I use a 30' XLR cable with no problems. I don't think you would blow anything up... you would just loose signal quality the longer you went due to the weaker preamp in the cam. Again, since I am not a pro, I wouldn't put too much stock in my advice :) I just know a 30 footer works fine for me using phantom power on a RODE NT3.

Steve Leverich · March 9th, 2007, 01:38 PM

The resistance of a 100 foot 24 gauge audio cable (200 foot round trip) only adds 6 ohms to the circuit - most mics are at least 150 ohm impedance, a lot are up to 600 ohms, so the resistance of the wire is negligible.

Noise-wise, the longer the cable the more noise will make it into the signal, but decent cable will shield enough of it not to matter much.

Where the loss comes in is mainly in cable CAPACITANCE - all cables have it, cheaper cables have more of it per foot. Without going into heavy math, a high impedance connection shouldn't be run more than about 20 feet unless you don't mind losing some treble in the signal - however, a low impedance path (like a mic signal) isn't as susceptible to cable capacitance because there is less resistance in the circuit to multiply with the capacitance, so this combination doesn't "filter out" the treble nearly as much.

Bottom line - even with marginal shielded cable, a 30 foot mic run shouldn't be a problem - with better quality cable such as Mogami even a 100 foot run should cause no discernible problems.

I think that probably Canon is covering their butt with this - no one who pays for high def gear wants to have their sound "coming through a pillow", so rather than field a lot of complaints about "muffled sound", they just tell you not to use long cables.

You can't damage your camera, or any other input circuit, by giving it LESS than it's designed for, so I wouldn't worry about that part - try your longer cable (it doesn't have to be stretched out for the test) and if you're happy with the "sizzle" in playback, you've not lost enough treble to concern yourself.

Just don't run this cable parallel to (and close to) a long power cord; you could pick up noticeable hum with most cables that are flexible enough to be considered "portable"... Steve

Dearl Golden · March 9th, 2007, 04:14 PM

Thank you, Steve for your reply.

Steve Leverich · March 9th, 2007, 07:03 PM

My pleasure; just noticed we're almost close enough to have talked without wires (except my voice is still kind of hoarse from a nasty flu/cold thing that's been making the rounds :=) Steve

Don Palomaki · March 26th, 2007, 08:00 AM

The big issue with long cables is probably the tangled mess, weight, and trip hazzzard you get if the mic is mounted on the camcorder.

Brad Tyrrell · March 26th, 2007, 09:14 AM

I regularly use a 50' cable directly into the A1. No problems so far, but I am planning a preamp/limiter/compressor/mixer feed to the A1 mostly because a single mic is a little scary. Also, a house board feed is more than a little scary without some protection.

March 5th, 2007, 10:27 AM	#1
Dearl Golden Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gallatin, TN Posts: 147	XLR Connection - XHA1 On page 48 of the manual, under "Connecting To The XLR Terminal", the third bullet under #2 states...."Use commercially available microphones with a cable no longer than 3m". My question....What if your situation requires a longer run?

March 26th, 2007, 08:00 AM	#8
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	The big issue with long cables is probably the tangled mess, weight, and trip hazzzard you get if the mic is mounted on the camcorder. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

March 5th, 2007, 10:43 AM	#2
Arthur Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 37	Then use a longer cable lol Seriously though, I know why they are saying that. Probably the built-in preamp of the A1 cannot deliver enough clean gain. I will test this this evening... have a A1 too. Anyway I would always recommend a small field mixer. They usually have stronger and better preamps. Or a seperate preamp. I use a small Apogee, but I do not record the sound in the camera, I use a mobile ProTools rig. You can always try to go up to 10 meter. If you notice you need too much extra gain or things become too noisy, use an external preamp. Also, use a good quality mic cable. I use generally cables from Mogami. Excellent quality and still cheaper than the silly hyped Monster stuff. Cheers Arthur

March 5th, 2007, 11:04 AM	#3
Dearl Golden Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gallatin, TN Posts: 147	In my youth, I might have slapped a 100 footer on it and never looked back. However....those days are behind me and I'm a tad more cautious these days. I'm relatively new to "big time" video and an absolute newbie in audio. I just don't want to short/blow something out/void warranty. All replies appreciated. (Even humorous ones)

March 8th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#4
Aaron Pinto Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 52	I'm no audio pro either but I use a 30' XLR cable with no problems. I don't think you would blow anything up... you would just loose signal quality the longer you went due to the weaker preamp in the cam. Again, since I am not a pro, I wouldn't put too much stock in my advice :) I just know a 30 footer works fine for me using phantom power on a RODE NT3.

March 9th, 2007, 01:38 PM	#5
Steve Leverich Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Albany Oregon Posts: 173	The resistance of a 100 foot 24 gauge audio cable (200 foot round trip) only adds 6 ohms to the circuit - most mics are at least 150 ohm impedance, a lot are up to 600 ohms, so the resistance of the wire is negligible. Noise-wise, the longer the cable the more noise will make it into the signal, but decent cable will shield enough of it not to matter much. Where the loss comes in is mainly in cable CAPACITANCE - all cables have it, cheaper cables have more of it per foot. Without going into heavy math, a high impedance connection shouldn't be run more than about 20 feet unless you don't mind losing some treble in the signal - however, a low impedance path (like a mic signal) isn't as susceptible to cable capacitance because there is less resistance in the circuit to multiply with the capacitance, so this combination doesn't "filter out" the treble nearly as much. Bottom line - even with marginal shielded cable, a 30 foot mic run shouldn't be a problem - with better quality cable such as Mogami even a 100 foot run should cause no discernible problems. I think that probably Canon is covering their butt with this - no one who pays for high def gear wants to have their sound "coming through a pillow", so rather than field a lot of complaints about "muffled sound", they just tell you not to use long cables. You can't damage your camera, or any other input circuit, by giving it LESS than it's designed for, so I wouldn't worry about that part - try your longer cable (it doesn't have to be stretched out for the test) and if you're happy with the "sizzle" in playback, you've not lost enough treble to concern yourself. Just don't run this cable parallel to (and close to) a long power cord; you could pick up noticeable hum with most cables that are flexible enough to be considered "portable"... Steve

March 9th, 2007, 04:14 PM	#6
Dearl Golden Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gallatin, TN Posts: 147	Thank you, Steve for your reply.

March 9th, 2007, 07:03 PM	#7
Steve Leverich Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Albany Oregon Posts: 173	My pleasure; just noticed we're almost close enough to have talked without wires (except my voice is still kind of hoarse from a nasty flu/cold thing that's been making the rounds :=) Steve

March 26th, 2007, 09:14 AM	#9
Brad Tyrrell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Morristown, New Jersey Posts: 249	I regularly use a 50' cable directly into the A1. No problems so far, but I am planning a preamp/limiter/compressor/mixer feed to the A1 mostly because a single mic is a little scary. Also, a house board feed is more than a little scary without some protection.