Schoeps microphone question. . . at DVinfo.net

Stephen Pruitt · February 19th, 2007, 09:58 PM

Hi all. . .

I'm planning on shooting a feature this coming summer. I currently have two Schoeps CMC6 microphones with MK4 cardioid capsules (which I use in my audio recording studio). I have since learned that MK41 hypercardioids are what I want for my feature film work. But here's the question: Should I buy TWO MK41 capsules and mount them on my existing CMC6s or ONE new CMC6 with an MK41 capsule?

I will also be wanting to record room ambience (primarily in stereo), so I was thinking that my MK4s might be ideal for that purpose. If that IS the case, then I'll just spring for another Schoeps CMC6 and buy one MK41. IF, on the other hand, you think I'd be better off using TWO MK41s (most of my dialog will be between two people in various locations), then I'll go that direction.

The cost of both solutions is just about exactly the same ($1500), hence my question.

Thanks so much!

Stephen

Seth Bloombaum · February 20th, 2007, 10:53 AM

This is really hard to advise on, because there are good workflows associated with either choice. You'll eventually just have to choose which workflow works best for your scenes and approach.

I'm not sure there's a good reason to end up with 4 complete systems (unless you just want it that way), as the choice of a cardoid stereo pair for room ambience is a tried and true application.

Typically only a single hypercardoid is used for booming. There is a workflow in which you would just buy one hyper cap, collect room ambience separately at another time, either to camcorder or audio-only recorder, collect it with a stereo pair of cardoids.

There are some applications in which you'd want to gather ambience at the same time as dialog, for example, when background action is visible and would best be represented with synched sound. Ideally, this would also call for at least 3 channels of recording.

"Shooting a feature" is a pretty broad category... there might be specific scenes that call for other approaches.

Tim Gray · February 20th, 2007, 01:28 PM

If I were you, I'd get a pair of MK41's. That way, you can:

- use 2 boom mics that are matched if you have to
- use 1 boom mic and an awesome "plant" mic
- have a matched pair of MK4's for music and ambience recording
- have a matched pair of MK41's for music and ambience recording

I can't imagine many situations where you would be recording dialog with the MK41 while while simultaneously recording ambience with a pair of MK4's. Those two are usually done serially and not in parallel.

Also, check out the MK8. I really enjoyed it when I had it and works great with the MK4 (and with the MK41 I would imagine) to record mono compatible stereo tracks for video/film.

Stephen Pruitt · February 20th, 2007, 10:19 PM

Seth and Tim. . . thanks so much for the feedback.

Let's throw this nugget into the equation:

Let's say I have a group of people sitting in the corner of a room. The shot is a medium one so that everyone (let's say seven people) are sitting in the corner on a sofa and some chairs and maybe even on the floor. The dialog is quick and people from different sides of the room are talking and stepping on each other's voices. How would one capture that with just one boom? Or would the boom be placed more or less in the center and hope to pick up everything? I also have a couple of other very good mics, including a Manley Gold Reference which has variable patterns, from omni, to cardioid, to figure-of-eight. Could that mic be flown over the group to good effect? (Yeah, it is big and heavy, but perhaps I could just suspend it from the ceiling overhead?)

I have a great 16-track mixer I'll be bringing on the sets (but it can only record 8 tracks at one time without auxiliary units), which will allow me capture each mic to a separate track. I'm almost tempted to buy TWO new CMC6s and TWO MK41 capsules to have two cardioids and two hyper cardioids running at the same time. Several of my scenes will definitely need to be recorded in parallel, as we are using public places with a very short shooting schedule.

Thanks very much!

Stephen

Oleg Kaizerman · February 21st, 2007, 02:34 AM

80 % of the shotes you are usially doing with 1 microphone
the ambient is alwais off shotes so you can use your 2 4s to record it in stereo .
the 4 is better then 41 for plant mic aplications as it has larger pattern and the subject you are shooting not alwais on the spot .
invest in in 1 hyper , cable to be able run the capsule separatly from the preamp and maybe some weierless or shotgun for exteriors shots .

February 19th, 2007, 09:58 PM	#1
Stephen Pruitt Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 228	Schoeps microphone question. . . Hi all. . . I'm planning on shooting a feature this coming summer. I currently have two Schoeps CMC6 microphones with MK4 cardioid capsules (which I use in my audio recording studio). I have since learned that MK41 hypercardioids are what I want for my feature film work. But here's the question: Should I buy TWO MK41 capsules and mount them on my existing CMC6s or ONE new CMC6 with an MK41 capsule? I will also be wanting to record room ambience (primarily in stereo), so I was thinking that my MK4s might be ideal for that purpose. If that IS the case, then I'll just spring for another Schoeps CMC6 and buy one MK41. IF, on the other hand, you think I'd be better off using TWO MK41s (most of my dialog will be between two people in various locations), then I'll go that direction. The cost of both solutions is just about exactly the same ($1500), hence my question. Thanks so much! Stephen

February 20th, 2007, 10:53 AM	#2
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	This is really hard to advise on, because there are good workflows associated with either choice. You'll eventually just have to choose which workflow works best for your scenes and approach. I'm not sure there's a good reason to end up with 4 complete systems (unless you just want it that way), as the choice of a cardoid stereo pair for room ambience is a tried and true application. Typically only a single hypercardoid is used for booming. There is a workflow in which you would just buy one hyper cap, collect room ambience separately at another time, either to camcorder or audio-only recorder, collect it with a stereo pair of cardoids. There are some applications in which you'd want to gather ambience at the same time as dialog, for example, when background action is visible and would best be represented with synched sound. Ideally, this would also call for at least 3 channels of recording. "Shooting a feature" is a pretty broad category... there might be specific scenes that call for other approaches.

February 20th, 2007, 01:28 PM	#3
Tim Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Media, PA Posts: 144	If I were you, I'd get a pair of MK41's. That way, you can: - use 2 boom mics that are matched if you have to - use 1 boom mic and an awesome "plant" mic - have a matched pair of MK4's for music and ambience recording - have a matched pair of MK41's for music and ambience recording I can't imagine many situations where you would be recording dialog with the MK41 while while simultaneously recording ambience with a pair of MK4's. Those two are usually done serially and not in parallel. Also, check out the MK8. I really enjoyed it when I had it and works great with the MK4 (and with the MK41 I would imagine) to record mono compatible stereo tracks for video/film.

February 20th, 2007, 10:19 PM	#4
Stephen Pruitt Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 228	Seth and Tim. . . thanks so much for the feedback. Let's throw this nugget into the equation: Let's say I have a group of people sitting in the corner of a room. The shot is a medium one so that everyone (let's say seven people) are sitting in the corner on a sofa and some chairs and maybe even on the floor. The dialog is quick and people from different sides of the room are talking and stepping on each other's voices. How would one capture that with just one boom? Or would the boom be placed more or less in the center and hope to pick up everything? I also have a couple of other very good mics, including a Manley Gold Reference which has variable patterns, from omni, to cardioid, to figure-of-eight. Could that mic be flown over the group to good effect? (Yeah, it is big and heavy, but perhaps I could just suspend it from the ceiling overhead?) I have a great 16-track mixer I'll be bringing on the sets (but it can only record 8 tracks at one time without auxiliary units), which will allow me capture each mic to a separate track. I'm almost tempted to buy TWO new CMC6s and TWO MK41 capsules to have two cardioids and two hyper cardioids running at the same time. Several of my scenes will definitely need to be recorded in parallel, as we are using public places with a very short shooting schedule. Thanks very much! Stephen

February 21st, 2007, 02:34 AM	#5
Oleg Kaizerman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: israel Posts: 296	80 % of the shotes you are usially doing with 1 microphone the ambient is alwais off shotes so you can use your 2 4s to record it in stereo . the 4 is better then 41 for plant mic aplications as it has larger pattern and the subject you are shooting not alwais on the spot . invest in in 1 hyper , cable to be able run the capsule separatly from the preamp and maybe some weierless or shotgun for exteriors shots .