Headphones for noise environment at DVinfo.net

Andrew Kimery · December 8th, 2006, 02:15 PM

I'm currently working in a less than ideal editing environment (two editors per bay in the middle of an office w/no sound proofing) and I'm looking for a pair of headphones that are very good at blocking out outside noises. Headphones with "active" noise canceling are no good 'cause they give me a sense of vertigo. I have to do some basic mixing w/them as well so a flatter response the better.

If possible I'd like to find something the in $150 range.

-A

Mark Utley · December 8th, 2006, 02:52 PM

I have Sennheiser HD280s ($150 CDN) and I've been very happy with them. Two of my friends have them as well and use them to mix auxillary sends at concerts.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search
(wow, price has sure come down since last year!)

Dean Sensui · December 8th, 2006, 05:09 PM

That's a tough one. You can use headphones for basic monitoring or editing but for mixdown and EQ you really need good system in a good room.

An engineer at Oceanway showed me the difference when I asked him about it. With the room's monitors the singer and band were nicely balanced. But on headphones the singer sounded like he was several paces "forward".

Headphones can give you an innacurate mix.

You might be able to do a preliminary mixdown but someone would have to go through it all over again later, which is double the man-hours.

Andrew Kimery · December 8th, 2006, 05:31 PM

Mark,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll see if I can find them locally and take them for a test drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Sensui

That's a tough one. You can use headphones for basic monitoring or editing but for mixdown and EQ you really need good system in a good room.

Agreed 100%, but for my current needs I just need to make a "good enough" mix. For anything more than that we go out of house for proper mixing.

My main concern is having to turn up my volume so loud 40+ hrs a week to drown out the noise that I'm damaging my hearing. I already have tinnitus and I've noticed it getting worse the past few months and the only change in my environment has been the new gig. Also, certain frequencies (like some fans on electronic equipment and powered-on but blank TV screens) tend to "trip" my tinnitus as well.

-A

Tim Kahn · December 8th, 2006, 05:41 PM

If you are OK using in-ear headphones perhaps the ER4 MicroPro headphones will be interesting. I find them very comfortable even over long times (8 hours). They are reasonably accurate (for headphones), but not a replacement for a good room.

Steve House · December 8th, 2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Kimery

Mark,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll see if I can find them locally and take them for a test drive.

....

While you're auditioning, give a listen to the Sony MDR7506. They're an industry mainstay, probably accounting for at least 50% of all the cans worn by film industry mixers. Though I've not used them, I've also heard good things about the Senn HD280 that Mark recommended and they also get a lot of professional use. If the noise is REALLY loud, yesterday I read a posting in another forum by a mixer who was working on a documentary on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier wearing a pair of in-ear monitors covered with hard-shell noise isolation ear protectors!

Dean Sensui · December 8th, 2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Kimery

My main concern is having to turn up my volume so loud 40+ hrs a week to drown out the noise that I'm damaging my hearing.

Yep, I hear ya!

:-)

Jon Fairhurst · December 8th, 2006, 07:03 PM

Yep. In-ears (like the Sennheiser E-series or Etymolics) with noise isolators (or noise reduction headphones that are on but have no input signal) give the very best isolation.

I've got a pair of HD280 Pros at home and at work. They're what I recommend for mixing (if you *must* use headphones - as said above, you need monitors and a room to set a proper image).

The HD280s are quite flat, and the Sony 7506s are scooped by comparison. Choose the Senns for mixing, and the Sonys for live recording. (In live recording you want the source to bust through a bit; frequency accuracy is secondary)

One problem with any closed headphone is that the chamber will have some resonance. At work the HVAC system really bugs me through them. They block most frequencies - but those that aren't blocked become even more bothersome. It's not so different than the vertigo of noise cancellers.

In-ears are better for isolation, and they have no resonant chamber - but they transmit more body noises (breath, movements, muscle tension, bloodflow...)

In both cases its important to secure the wire. I use a paper clasp to clip it on my clothes, and create a "loop". Otherwise it's like a tin can and string.

Best...

Andrew Kimery · December 8th, 2006, 07:48 PM

Very useful feedback so far (as expected), thanks guys.

In regards to the in-the-ear phones, I take my phones on and off a lot throughout the day and it seems like the in-the-ear phones would be annoying to deal w/in that regard.

Steve House,
I haven't done the "hard shell ear protection over IEM's" thing, but when I worked for CART shooting race cars I had to get a custom molded ear piece for my walkie 'cause the standard ear piece sucked for being in the pit area (fairly sure that's where some of my hearing loss happened).

-A

Jon Fairhurst · December 8th, 2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Kimery

In regards to the in-the-ear phones, I take my phones on and off a lot throughout the day and it seems like the in-the-ear phones would be annoying to deal w/in that regard.

I've been using mine more and more. While sitting at a desk for casual listening, I just barely press them in. (I use the orange foam cylinders, and I don't bother pre-sqishing them for this.) I find it to be no big deal. For use when out and about or in really noisy environments like a plane, I spend more time seating them.

Harm Millaard · December 9th, 2006, 05:16 AM

My personal favorite is the Sennheiser HD25.

From the B&H site:

The HD 25 is an over-the-ear, closed-back compact professional monitoring headphone offering high attenuation of background noise. Capable of handling very high sound pressure levels and featuring extremely robust construction, the headphone performs exceptionally well in high noise environments, such as ENG, sound reinforcement, studio monitoring and audio equipment testing.

John Huling · December 9th, 2006, 06:51 AM

Sony MDR7506 are LOUD so if you are looking for inexpensive these are sort of a standard. AKG's are the other one's Remember "We are the World" Everyone had a set on the new AKG's are louder than before. More sensitive and are more comfortable for many. But these two SOny and AKG are found in almost every studio in the USA. Senheisers are popular in Europe as well but not as much here.

As for mixing as long as one understands that "Can" mixing is different than room monitors which come in all sizes etc. There are plenty of engineers who mix with phones. I personally only use them to check detail.

Chuck Fadely · December 10th, 2006, 11:00 AM

My experience is that the Sennheiser 280 headphones do a better job of blocking external noises but the Sony 7506 'phones are more comfortable over long hours. I edit in a noisy environment too, but prefer the Sony's to edit with because of the comfort factor.

I've been trying to figure out a way to make my cubicle more workable and am about to turn it into a cave with moving blankets over the top -- It'll work for a little while until the fire marshall finds it.....

Or you could get those green headphones from your CART days with Sony drivers: "Remote Audio HN-7506 High Noise Isolating Headphones with Sony MDR-7506 Drivers and Custom Baffling"

Marcus Marchesseault · December 11th, 2006, 01:51 AM

"I read a posting in another forum by a mixer who was working on a documentary on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier wearing a pair of in-ear monitors covered with hard-shell noise isolation ear protectors!"

When I go to the shooting range, I wear earplugs AND over-ear protection. I can take off the over-ear if I need to talk to someone and still retain some protection. I like the idea to wear in-ear monitors and over-ear protection simultaneously in a very noisy area. That way, you don't need to crank up the monitors.

Jacques Mersereau · December 11th, 2006, 08:20 AM

Sony makes a 7506 model with fiberglass ear cups which
helps to deaden ambient sound more than 'vanilla' 7506,
but I think they cost almost twice as much money.

December 8th, 2006, 02:15 PM	#1
Andrew Kimery Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 352	Headphones for noise environment I'm currently working in a less than ideal editing environment (two editors per bay in the middle of an office w/no sound proofing) and I'm looking for a pair of headphones that are very good at blocking out outside noises. Headphones with "active" noise canceling are no good 'cause they give me a sense of vertigo. I have to do some basic mixing w/them as well so a flatter response the better. If possible I'd like to find something the in $150 range. -A

December 8th, 2006, 02:52 PM	#2
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	I have Sennheiser HD280s ($150 CDN) and I've been very happy with them. Two of my friends have them as well and use them to mix auxillary sends at concerts. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search (wow, price has sure come down since last year!) __________________ Mark Utley

December 8th, 2006, 05:09 PM	#3
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	That's a tough one. You can use headphones for basic monitoring or editing but for mixdown and EQ you really need good system in a good room. An engineer at Oceanway showed me the difference when I asked him about it. With the room's monitors the singer and band were nicely balanced. But on headphones the singer sounded like he was several paces "forward". Headphones can give you an innacurate mix. You might be able to do a preliminary mixdown but someone would have to go through it all over again later, which is double the man-hours. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

December 8th, 2006, 07:03 PM	#8
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Yep. In-ears (like the Sennheiser E-series or Etymolics) with noise isolators (or noise reduction headphones that are on but have no input signal) give the very best isolation. I've got a pair of HD280 Pros at home and at work. They're what I recommend for mixing (if you must use headphones - as said above, you need monitors and a room to set a proper image). The HD280s are quite flat, and the Sony 7506s are scooped by comparison. Choose the Senns for mixing, and the Sonys for live recording. (In live recording you want the source to bust through a bit; frequency accuracy is secondary) One problem with any closed headphone is that the chamber will have some resonance. At work the HVAC system really bugs me through them. They block most frequencies - but those that aren't blocked become even more bothersome. It's not so different than the vertigo of noise cancellers. In-ears are better for isolation, and they have no resonant chamber - but they transmit more body noises (breath, movements, muscle tension, bloodflow...) In both cases its important to secure the wire. I use a paper clasp to clip it on my clothes, and create a "loop". Otherwise it's like a tin can and string. Best... __________________ Jon Fairhurst

December 11th, 2006, 08:20 AM	#15
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Sony makes a 7506 model with fiberglass ear cups which helps to deaden ambient sound more than 'vanilla' 7506, but I think they cost almost twice as much money. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

December 8th, 2006, 05:41 PM	#5
Tim Kahn New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 22	If you are OK using in-ear headphones perhaps the ER4 MicroPro headphones will be interesting. I find them very comfortable even over long times (8 hours). They are reasonably accurate (for headphones), but not a replacement for a good room.

December 8th, 2006, 07:48 PM	#9
Andrew Kimery Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 352	Very useful feedback so far (as expected), thanks guys. In regards to the in-the-ear phones, I take my phones on and off a lot throughout the day and it seems like the in-the-ear phones would be annoying to deal w/in that regard. Steve House, I haven't done the "hard shell ear protection over IEM's" thing, but when I worked for CART shooting race cars I had to get a custom molded ear piece for my walkie 'cause the standard ear piece sucked for being in the pit area (fairly sure that's where some of my hearing loss happened). -A

December 9th, 2006, 05:16 AM	#11
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	My personal favorite is the Sennheiser HD25. From the B&H site: The HD 25 is an over-the-ear, closed-back compact professional monitoring headphone offering high attenuation of background noise. Capable of handling very high sound pressure levels and featuring extremely robust construction, the headphone performs exceptionally well in high noise environments, such as ENG, sound reinforcement, studio monitoring and audio equipment testing.

December 9th, 2006, 06:51 AM	#12
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Sony MDR7506 are LOUD so if you are looking for inexpensive these are sort of a standard. AKG's are the other one's Remember "We are the World" Everyone had a set on the new AKG's are louder than before. More sensitive and are more comfortable for many. But these two SOny and AKG are found in almost every studio in the USA. Senheisers are popular in Europe as well but not as much here. As for mixing as long as one understands that "Can" mixing is different than room monitors which come in all sizes etc. There are plenty of engineers who mix with phones. I personally only use them to check detail.

December 10th, 2006, 11:00 AM	#13
Chuck Fadely Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: United States Posts: 306	My experience is that the Sennheiser 280 headphones do a better job of blocking external noises but the Sony 7506 'phones are more comfortable over long hours. I edit in a noisy environment too, but prefer the Sony's to edit with because of the comfort factor. I've been trying to figure out a way to make my cubicle more workable and am about to turn it into a cave with moving blankets over the top -- It'll work for a little while until the fire marshall finds it..... Or you could get those green headphones from your CART days with Sony drivers: "Remote Audio HN-7506 High Noise Isolating Headphones with Sony MDR-7506 Drivers and Custom Baffling"

December 11th, 2006, 01:51 AM	#14
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	"I read a posting in another forum by a mixer who was working on a documentary on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier wearing a pair of in-ear monitors covered with hard-shell noise isolation ear protectors!" When I go to the shooting range, I wear earplugs AND over-ear protection. I can take off the over-ear if I need to talk to someone and still retain some protection. I like the idea to wear in-ear monitors and over-ear protection simultaneously in a very noisy area. That way, you don't need to crank up the monitors.