two mics one boom at DVinfo.net

Pietro Jona · November 9th, 2006, 03:37 AM

ok, for nearly two years now i've been hired, given some kind of tool and asked to gather sound. most of the times the gear i used was not ideal for the shot but nobody ever complained. i guess it is something that happens to many of us here.
now i'm going to be working on a more serious thing, it is something that i like and i want it to have the best possible audio.
the guy that we'll follow will be moving in interiors and outdoors and i'll have no time for changing mic on my boom. what i'm thinking is to find a way to stick a mkh416 (or similar) and a cmc641 in the same zeppelin. two wires would be coming down the pole to my sd302, two channel both sent to camera's ch1 (just need to ride levels to decide wich mic is better in wich case), the third channel sent to camera's ch2 with a lav clipped on someone or used as an ambient mic hidden somewhere near the action. this way i could use the hyper indoors and the shotgun outdoors or even indoors if i ever need more reach (it is going to be a documentary so a bit of reverbering sound won't be too bad -empty rooms are supposed to be reverberant on a wide shot).
my only doubt is about positioning a cmc641 in a long zep, like the rycote n.4, toghether with a shotgun. how do you see that? i might put just the capsule, but still it should be fixed at the very front of it otherwise it'd be too far for the speaking mouths..
thanks for the imputs!

Bob Hart · November 9th, 2006, 04:39 AM

If both the mikes are phantom powered and have radio-frequency circuits in them (not the same as radio mikes) be mindful you might get RF interference between the two if you have both powered up at the same time.

It happens if you put old Sony C76 and Sony C74 mikes closer than about three inches from each other on the same pole.

Steve House · November 9th, 2006, 04:52 AM

IMHO, there's no reason you couldn't use the Schoeps outdoors as well. There's nothing sacred about shotguns for video and unless you need the slightly extra reach and rejection of environmental sounds that you would get 416, the hyper should work just fine both indoors and out. Using just one mic for most of the shots makes the problem of quickly changing between two go away.

Pietro Jona · November 9th, 2006, 05:00 AM

steve,

the reason for using a 416 ora another shotgun would be the reach.
it is going to be a kind of run and gun documentary and sometimes i'd be far from the speaking person. i know this is not good but it is the only way i can manage to get ANY sound. i have worked with a 416 outdoors and picked sound from -say- 5 or more meters away sometimes. that was BAD audio but still usable in such circumstances.. how would a cmc641 work in such a case?
of course for me it would be much better to work with only one mic, lighter boom, half the money, half the worries..

Marco Leavitt · November 9th, 2006, 08:47 AM

In that situation I'd go with a cs3e. It works suprisingly good indoors (supposedly better than the 416, but I've never done a comparison) and is fantastic outdoors. It's an amazing mic. It takes a lot of skill to use though. It's not forgiving off axis at all.

Oleg Kaizerman · November 10th, 2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

In that situation I'd go with a cs3e. It works suprisingly good indoors (supposedly better than the 416, but I've never done a comparison) and is fantastic outdoors. It's an amazing mic. It takes a lot of skill to use though. It's not forgiving off axis at all.

good idea - but i will like to correct , the 416 has much more tighter pattern , but doesnt reject low frequency from of axis , the cs-3 other way , does it much better .
also think that this is the best one for in/out situation
by the way you can place both mics inside the windshield but without the foam .
Manfred klemme(k-tek) make 8 rings to hold 2 schoeps together inside his rubber holder( good for every suspension) . the 8 rings have 20 mm holes and the 416 is 19mm , so you can add small pease of gaffer inside make the diameter suitable .
you can also make 5 wire cable with 2 xlrs on each end ( the same as we use for ms recording) and use both mics simultaneiously .
but - do you really want to carry 300gr mic ?:-)

Pietro Jona · November 10th, 2006, 11:46 AM

marco
thanx for the suggestion.
oleg
agree with you about the weight.
i never used a cs3, how does it behave compared to a 416 outdoors? reach, sound..

Pietro Jona · November 10th, 2006, 11:53 AM

handling noise..

November 9th, 2006, 03:37 AM	#1
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	two mics one boom ok, for nearly two years now i've been hired, given some kind of tool and asked to gather sound. most of the times the gear i used was not ideal for the shot but nobody ever complained. i guess it is something that happens to many of us here. now i'm going to be working on a more serious thing, it is something that i like and i want it to have the best possible audio. the guy that we'll follow will be moving in interiors and outdoors and i'll have no time for changing mic on my boom. what i'm thinking is to find a way to stick a mkh416 (or similar) and a cmc641 in the same zeppelin. two wires would be coming down the pole to my sd302, two channel both sent to camera's ch1 (just need to ride levels to decide wich mic is better in wich case), the third channel sent to camera's ch2 with a lav clipped on someone or used as an ambient mic hidden somewhere near the action. this way i could use the hyper indoors and the shotgun outdoors or even indoors if i ever need more reach (it is going to be a documentary so a bit of reverbering sound won't be too bad -empty rooms are supposed to be reverberant on a wide shot). my only doubt is about positioning a cmc641 in a long zep, like the rycote n.4, toghether with a shotgun. how do you see that? i might put just the capsule, but still it should be fixed at the very front of it otherwise it'd be too far for the speaking mouths.. thanks for the imputs!

November 9th, 2006, 04:52 AM	#3
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	IMHO, there's no reason you couldn't use the Schoeps outdoors as well. There's nothing sacred about shotguns for video and unless you need the slightly extra reach and rejection of environmental sounds that you would get 416, the hyper should work just fine both indoors and out. Using just one mic for most of the shots makes the problem of quickly changing between two go away. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

November 9th, 2006, 04:39 AM	#2
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	If both the mikes are phantom powered and have radio-frequency circuits in them (not the same as radio mikes) be mindful you might get RF interference between the two if you have both powered up at the same time. It happens if you put old Sony C76 and Sony C74 mikes closer than about three inches from each other on the same pole.

November 9th, 2006, 05:00 AM	#4
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	steve, the reason for using a 416 ora another shotgun would be the reach. it is going to be a kind of run and gun documentary and sometimes i'd be far from the speaking person. i know this is not good but it is the only way i can manage to get ANY sound. i have worked with a 416 outdoors and picked sound from -say- 5 or more meters away sometimes. that was BAD audio but still usable in such circumstances.. how would a cmc641 work in such a case? of course for me it would be much better to work with only one mic, lighter boom, half the money, half the worries..

November 9th, 2006, 08:47 AM	#5
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	In that situation I'd go with a cs3e. It works suprisingly good indoors (supposedly better than the 416, but I've never done a comparison) and is fantastic outdoors. It's an amazing mic. It takes a lot of skill to use though. It's not forgiving off axis at all.

November 10th, 2006, 11:46 AM	#7
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	marco thanx for the suggestion. oleg agree with you about the weight. i never used a cs3, how does it behave compared to a 416 outdoors? reach, sound..

November 10th, 2006, 11:53 AM	#8
Pietro Jona Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: italy Posts: 172	handling noise..