is my stuff any good at DVinfo.net

Vedran Rupic · August 30th, 2006, 07:41 AM

I'm very new to the sound recording for video field. But right now I am to shoot a documentaryand i got some stuff real cheap.

I have a shotgun, a sony ecm-672 on a ploe, and a wireless lav sony wrt-805.
Am i able to get decent sound out of these.
I have tried them out and they seem to function, but i don't now much about setting levels.
I believe I get far to much noise, what can that be? Is it only noise in my earphones or will the balanced xlr out produce cleaner sound?
Im attaching them to a xl2 cam.
Should I phantom power the mics or shouldn't I?

the shotgun mic has battery on it how does this affect the phantom?

Steve House · August 30th, 2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vedran Rupic

I'm very new to the sound recording for video field. But right now I am to shoot a documentaryand i got some stuff real cheap.

I have a shotgun, a sony ecm-672 on a ploe, and a wireless lav sony wrt-805.
Am i able to get decent sound out of these.
I have tried them out and they seem to function, but i don't now much about setting levels.
I believe I get far to much noise, what can that be? Is it only noise in my earphones or will the balanced xlr out produce cleaner sound?
Im attaching them to a xl2 cam.
Should I phantom power the mics or shouldn't I?

the shotgun mic has battery on it how does this affect the phantom?

Balanced XLR in and of itself doesn't produce cleaner sound. It can help avoid picking up external noise interference with longer cable runs but balanced isn't inherently cleaner than unbalanced.

Mics that offer the option of battery or phantom power, such as the Sony ECM672, usually perform better on phantom.

Are you hearing the noise in your headphones while recording or have you recorded a tape and found noise on the playback?

Vedran Rupic · August 30th, 2006, 08:07 AM

well i have only heard the noise on my earphones while monitoring, i have the shotgun connected to a opus audio fpm312 three channel mic mixer, and I monitoring from that one, the thing is, when i remove the battery from the mic and swithc to phantom on the mixer i get more noise then before.

Jay Massengill · August 30th, 2006, 08:13 AM

The ECM-672 was very ruggedly built and had reasonably good sound as an on-camera news gathering and sports mic. It's functional but not great acoustically for clean dialogue. It has noticeable off-axis coloration indoors and it is fairly low in sensitivity which might be contributing to the higher noise level you're hearing. However the XL-2 has a lot of control and menu settings that could also be contributing to this. Study the manual carefully or work with someone who is very familiar with the audio aspects of the XL2 and go through all the settings.
If you can test your mics directly into an audio mixer, that will give you a better idea of what they can do.
I would phantom power the 672. There was also mention in the mic manual about how a dead internal battery can harm the sound even with phantom on, because the battery is part of the circuit. Since you don't need it, I'd take the battery out.
Two other things about this mic: It has a different pickup pattern depending on how it is rotated. It's marked "UP" on the top and the interference holes line both sides of the mic. The pattern is more narrow to the sides and more open on top and bottom. Rotate the mic if needed for your situation. Be aware of this when boom mounted and rotating the mic in relation to different subjects is unavoidable.
Second, it has a two-position bass roll-off switch. Rolled-off and more rolled-off are the two choices. There is no flat position. The manual is very cryptic here. I believe the "M" setting is less rolled off and the "V" setting is more rolled off. I always remembered it by "Music" where you'd want full bodied sound and "Voice" like a reporter on-scene where you'd want more roll-off.
You can do test recordings of this in a bassy environment and check the effect of the switch. The switch is inside the barrel accessed the same as when changing the battery.
I have no experience with that wireless set.

Jay Massengill · August 30th, 2006, 08:20 AM

You could have a bad cable, or the mic may be experiencing a problem with phantom power. Try substituting a known good cable. Try using a known good battery AND phantom. Lastly try just battery power only again with a known good and clean battery. Those steps should point you towards the problem.
Also check that the battery contacts are clean and not oxidized. Look for signs of past battery leakage. Also check the mic XLR pins for oxide buildup.
Many of these mics were used very hard for years with exposure to rain, wind, salt spray, football sideline incidents, drag-racing volume levels, etc.
You could also try flipping the roll-off switch several times to make sure it isn't aged into a noisy position.
Do you know any of the history of your mic?

Jon Fairhurst · August 30th, 2006, 12:44 PM

The biggest advantage of running phantom over battery is that your mic will be able to handle high sound pressure levels better. If the sound is well controlled a battery may be good enough. If you're recording a potentially loud event, go with phantom if at all possible.

Vedran Rupic · August 30th, 2006, 01:13 PM

i have looked in to the matter and the high noise doesn't seem to be a mic problem, I realized that the noise is there even when i unplug the mic and cable, i can still tweak the levels on the xl2 and the noise is the same.
I can turn upp the noise by turning up the levels. Is it supposed to be like this or is it something wrong with my camera?
Please say it isn't so as I am going to production on friday.

Jarrod Whaley · August 30th, 2006, 03:01 PM

Well, you said earlier that you're only hearing noise when monitoring live with your headphones. Play back some of your footage and see if the noise is actually in the recorded signal. It might just be your headphones, in which case you can just ignore it if you don't want to buy a new set.

Vedran Rupic · August 30th, 2006, 03:08 PM

I got the noise inside of PP also, I wouldn't think its a monitoring issue.
The thing is, when i set the input on the xl2 to audio1, the RCA line in connector, I get no noise at all.

Vedran Rupic · August 30th, 2006, 03:19 PM

besides, do cameras generate any noise when nothing is connected to them?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 30th, 2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vedran Rupic

besides, do cameras generate any noise when nothing is connected to them?

Most all of them do. Just that the signal to noise ratio is higher than what you'd normally hear. ;-)

Vedran Rupic · August 30th, 2006, 03:33 PM

So is the camera behaving normally or is there some weird malfunction that increases the noises?
I mean how will i get clean using good mics if its gonna be polluted to begin with?

August 30th, 2006, 07:41 AM	#1
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	is my stuff any good I'm very new to the sound recording for video field. But right now I am to shoot a documentaryand i got some stuff real cheap. I have a shotgun, a sony ecm-672 on a ploe, and a wireless lav sony wrt-805. Am i able to get decent sound out of these. I have tried them out and they seem to function, but i don't now much about setting levels. I believe I get far to much noise, what can that be? Is it only noise in my earphones or will the balanced xlr out produce cleaner sound? Im attaching them to a xl2 cam. Should I phantom power the mics or shouldn't I? the shotgun mic has battery on it how does this affect the phantom? __________________ Documentary work

August 30th, 2006, 08:07 AM	#3
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	well i have only heard the noise on my earphones while monitoring, i have the shotgun connected to a opus audio fpm312 three channel mic mixer, and I monitoring from that one, the thing is, when i remove the battery from the mic and swithc to phantom on the mixer i get more noise then before. __________________ Documentary work

August 30th, 2006, 12:44 PM	#6
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	The biggest advantage of running phantom over battery is that your mic will be able to handle high sound pressure levels better. If the sound is well controlled a battery may be good enough. If you're recording a potentially loud event, go with phantom if at all possible. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 30th, 2006, 01:13 PM	#7
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	i have looked in to the matter and the high noise doesn't seem to be a mic problem, I realized that the noise is there even when i unplug the mic and cable, i can still tweak the levels on the xl2 and the noise is the same. I can turn upp the noise by turning up the levels. Is it supposed to be like this or is it something wrong with my camera? Please say it isn't so as I am going to production on friday. __________________ Documentary work

August 30th, 2006, 03:01 PM	#8
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	Well, you said earlier that you're only hearing noise when monitoring live with your headphones. Play back some of your footage and see if the noise is actually in the recorded signal. It might just be your headphones, in which case you can just ignore it if you don't want to buy a new set. __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com

August 30th, 2006, 08:13 AM	#4
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The ECM-672 was very ruggedly built and had reasonably good sound as an on-camera news gathering and sports mic. It's functional but not great acoustically for clean dialogue. It has noticeable off-axis coloration indoors and it is fairly low in sensitivity which might be contributing to the higher noise level you're hearing. However the XL-2 has a lot of control and menu settings that could also be contributing to this. Study the manual carefully or work with someone who is very familiar with the audio aspects of the XL2 and go through all the settings. If you can test your mics directly into an audio mixer, that will give you a better idea of what they can do. I would phantom power the 672. There was also mention in the mic manual about how a dead internal battery can harm the sound even with phantom on, because the battery is part of the circuit. Since you don't need it, I'd take the battery out. Two other things about this mic: It has a different pickup pattern depending on how it is rotated. It's marked "UP" on the top and the interference holes line both sides of the mic. The pattern is more narrow to the sides and more open on top and bottom. Rotate the mic if needed for your situation. Be aware of this when boom mounted and rotating the mic in relation to different subjects is unavoidable. Second, it has a two-position bass roll-off switch. Rolled-off and more rolled-off are the two choices. There is no flat position. The manual is very cryptic here. I believe the "M" setting is less rolled off and the "V" setting is more rolled off. I always remembered it by "Music" where you'd want full bodied sound and "Voice" like a reporter on-scene where you'd want more roll-off. You can do test recordings of this in a bassy environment and check the effect of the switch. The switch is inside the barrel accessed the same as when changing the battery. I have no experience with that wireless set.

August 30th, 2006, 08:20 AM	#5
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	You could have a bad cable, or the mic may be experiencing a problem with phantom power. Try substituting a known good cable. Try using a known good battery AND phantom. Lastly try just battery power only again with a known good and clean battery. Those steps should point you towards the problem. Also check that the battery contacts are clean and not oxidized. Look for signs of past battery leakage. Also check the mic XLR pins for oxide buildup. Many of these mics were used very hard for years with exposure to rain, wind, salt spray, football sideline incidents, drag-racing volume levels, etc. You could also try flipping the roll-off switch several times to make sure it isn't aged into a noisy position. Do you know any of the history of your mic?

August 30th, 2006, 03:08 PM	#9
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	I got the noise inside of PP also, I wouldn't think its a monitoring issue. The thing is, when i set the input on the xl2 to audio1, the RCA line in connector, I get no noise at all. __________________ Documentary work

August 30th, 2006, 03:19 PM	#10
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	besides, do cameras generate any noise when nothing is connected to them? __________________ Documentary work

August 30th, 2006, 03:33 PM	#12
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	So is the camera behaving normally or is there some weird malfunction that increases the noises? I mean how will i get clean using good mics if its gonna be polluted to begin with? __________________ Documentary work