Anyone ever heard of Sign Video audio mixers?

Seth Bloombaum · October 30th, 2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Leone

...there is no portabrace case per se, specifically made for this mixer just yet, which is too bad, since it seems that the surfaces of this unit will scratch up in no time at all..right now I am using an expedition sized fanny pack lined with close-cell foam, and that works ok for now....I am going to take a look at a Petrol bag which may work...

Steve! Whassup?

Check out the detailed pix of the PEGZ-1 at petrolbags.com, one of the pix shows tearing down the back side of the case (velcro) to reveal the bottom of the mixer.

I've come to like Petrol better than Portabrace (gasp!) Really nice stuff, great designs.

Thanks for the "in-use" review of the ENG-44. See you next time you're in town?

Seth

Steve Leone · October 30th, 2006, 08:16 PM

thanx for the advice Seth!!...I was also looking at the Petrol PPMB PSC Mixer Shoulder Bag with Built-in Clear Rain Cover...its a steal at $125 at Adorama, and should fit the ENG-44 almost perfectly, with a bit of room to spare.....I hope to visit PDX in spring; maybe we could team up with Burk for some dim sum???

Seth Bloombaum · October 31st, 2006, 01:06 AM

That case looks good for mixer and acc., and yes, a deal.

A friend has one of the big audio cases for his very nice Sound Devices mixer, recorder, wireless & lots of goodies - these cases are built very well.

Dim sum - yes!

SB

Steve Leone · October 31st, 2006, 10:02 AM

you are all most welcome....I have just a bit of an epilogue, as it were....as a result of my power consumption tests, I have now been running this mixer day and night since saturday afternoon....it is now tuesday morning....and it's working just fine.....so my de=facto burn-in has proven a success.

I did try running on the 4 AA's last night...I used the same set I had used on my shoot last week, so there was already about 3-4 hours of use on them....they ran just about 10 hours, althought I fed line last night and did NOT use +48 v....so I guess I'd have to concur with Ty.....depending on the use, you could get anywhere from 9-14 hours of use with a fresh set of AA's...

Based on my experience with the SD 302 and shure mixers, I think this is a pretty nice selling point for this box.....it's not just the cost of the batteries, or even the environmental concern, but just as a fact of life for the sound operator: it's nice to not to have to even think about the state of the batteries in your rig...less worry = less stress , and an increased ability to focus on the actual work...I do LIKE not having to think too much about when I am going to have to change batteries...of course, with a brick or NP1 plugged in, its a non- issue altogether...

oh, one other thing I forgot to mention....the ballistics of the meters.....the meters are quite fast, and there is NO option for a meter hold, so they take a bit of getting used to....a peak hold would be a welcome addition in future models, I find that to be a very useful feature....

I think Sign could do a somewhat better job of marketing the product....it fits nicely in a niche that is occupied by virtually NO other product, and you can buy it at B&H, probably the largest retail seller of this sort of gear...but when was the last time you saw an advert in one of the trades for this gizmo???
Outside of Ty Fords review, there is virtually no info on this thing.....I did actually call the pro-audio department at B&H to try to get the skinny on the ENG-44, but the sales person claimed to know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it, except that it was the only pro audio mixer they sold in that price range.
If it was me running that outfit, I'd be looking seriously at how I could sell more units....it would not be a very difficult thing to do, considering how much curiosity there is in the industry about it....

Steve Leone · November 1st, 2006, 03:23 PM

ok, just ONE more epilogue...I finally got an adapter that I ended up ordering from some guy in Hong Kong so that I could use the BOOM XLR out without having to wire a headphone amp to the mixer.....it took about 10 days(it actually had to go thru customs) but sure enough I did get my 2 XLR female to 1/4" stereo female adapters.....I plugged it in and would't you know it?? I got true stereo out of this thing thru an xlr cable and into my K240S headset...I have to say, that IS pretty slick...

Vincent Rozenberg · November 1st, 2006, 03:37 PM

Steve, Do you now the PSC mixers? If so, how do they do it compared to this one? Thanks for all your findings so far!

Steve Leone · November 1st, 2006, 03:49 PM

sorry, not very familiar with PSC, tho I hear they are very good.....my clients all are using the Sound Devices 442 and the 302, which are awesome mixers, but fairly expensive....the 302 is about $1200 and the 442 is about $2300, so the $529 for the eng-44 does put it in a totally different class of gear....

Vincent Rozenberg · November 1st, 2006, 05:36 PM

Yep, Sound Devices mixers are divine, I'm a producer/cameraman and all the sound guys I'm working with are using them or Sonosax mixers. IMHO to bad that there is not a broad market for field mixers as there is for studio/live situations. I'm in the market for a mixer myself. But coming from a live-sound background I can not justify 2300 dollars for a 4 input mixer... compare that with a top of the bill Soundcraft mixer with 16 mic inputs (obviously beter ones then on the SD) British EQ and lots more for about the same price.. That's why I'm very interested in the low cost solutions.

Ty Ford · November 2nd, 2006, 11:53 AM

The difference in the cost between an eng44 and 442 is very justified. There is at least that much diffference in their quality and feature set.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Steve Leone · November 2nd, 2006, 12:04 PM

yeah, I would go so far as to say that considering what they give you, the SD mixers are actually a nice value.....but $2300 is still $2300, and each person would have to make a choice based on their needs and the nature of his/her bussiness......if I was a full-time sound only type of dude, I would have sprung for the SD......but I am primarily a shooter, who wanted a mixer in his bag of tricks....most of the shooters i know dont even have their own mixers, so for me, this item is just a bit of gravy for my clients....if I hire a sound person, I would probably expect that he/she show up with an SD or something like it.....on the other hand, there are still a TON of people using old FP32's out there, and coax good sound out of them, so I guess whatever trips your trigger.....$529 is a pretty limited budget for a mixer, but I think this gizmo does pretty OK for the money....so far...

Vincent Rozenberg · November 2nd, 2006, 01:37 PM

Off course the 442 is a much better mixer, but I do not know if the price difference is justified. I think that it is that much of difference because the fact that there are very few players in that market segment. Maybe time for the Berhringers, Makies, Soundcrafts to come with ENG solutions in their arsenal..?

Barry Gribble · November 2nd, 2006, 01:54 PM

Steve,

I am with you on that. Not saying they are not worth it, but there is a sticker shock coming from the pro-audio world when paying for a 4 channel mixer.

Even looking at the $500 models, I definitely went through the process of thinking that I can almost get a solid portable 4-track recorder for the same and just record all tracks instead of mixing them in to the camera. Syncing is no fun, though.

Steve House · November 2nd, 2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Gribble

Steve,

I am with you on that. Not saying they are not worth it, but there is a sticker shock coming from the pro-audio world when paying for a 4 channel mixer.

Even looking at the $500 models, I definitely went through the process of thinking that I can almost get a solid portable 4-track recorder for the same and just record all tracks instead of mixing them in to the camera. Syncing is no fun, though.

Of course, pro-world prices for 4-track recorders can engender the same level of sticker shock. Take, for example, a typical professional battery operated 4-channel recorder often mated with the SD442 mixer and frequently seen on-set being used for location sound recording, the Sound Devices 744T. B&H currently is listing it for a mere $3950.

October 30th, 2006, 08:16 PM	#17
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	Petrol Bag for ENG-44 thanx for the advice Seth!!...I was also looking at the Petrol PPMB PSC Mixer Shoulder Bag with Built-in Clear Rain Cover...its a steal at $125 at Adorama, and should fit the ENG-44 almost perfectly, with a bit of room to spare.....I hope to visit PDX in spring; maybe we could team up with Burk for some dim sum??? __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

October 31st, 2006, 10:02 AM	#19
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	re: Sign Video / ENG-44 you are all most welcome....I have just a bit of an epilogue, as it were....as a result of my power consumption tests, I have now been running this mixer day and night since saturday afternoon....it is now tuesday morning....and it's working just fine.....so my de=facto burn-in has proven a success. I did try running on the 4 AA's last night...I used the same set I had used on my shoot last week, so there was already about 3-4 hours of use on them....they ran just about 10 hours, althought I fed line last night and did NOT use +48 v....so I guess I'd have to concur with Ty.....depending on the use, you could get anywhere from 9-14 hours of use with a fresh set of AA's... Based on my experience with the SD 302 and shure mixers, I think this is a pretty nice selling point for this box.....it's not just the cost of the batteries, or even the environmental concern, but just as a fact of life for the sound operator: it's nice to not to have to even think about the state of the batteries in your rig...less worry = less stress , and an increased ability to focus on the actual work...I do LIKE not having to think too much about when I am going to have to change batteries...of course, with a brick or NP1 plugged in, its a non- issue altogether... oh, one other thing I forgot to mention....the ballistics of the meters.....the meters are quite fast, and there is NO option for a meter hold, so they take a bit of getting used to....a peak hold would be a welcome addition in future models, I find that to be a very useful feature.... I think Sign could do a somewhat better job of marketing the product....it fits nicely in a niche that is occupied by virtually NO other product, and you can buy it at B&H, probably the largest retail seller of this sort of gear...but when was the last time you saw an advert in one of the trades for this gizmo??? Outside of Ty Fords review, there is virtually no info on this thing.....I did actually call the pro-audio department at B&H to try to get the skinny on the ENG-44, but the sales person claimed to know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it, except that it was the only pro audio mixer they sold in that price range. If it was me running that outfit, I'd be looking seriously at how I could sell more units....it would not be a very difficult thing to do, considering how much curiosity there is in the industry about it.... __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

November 1st, 2006, 03:23 PM	#20
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	Anyone ever heard of Sign Video audio mixers? ok, just ONE more epilogue...I finally got an adapter that I ended up ordering from some guy in Hong Kong so that I could use the BOOM XLR out without having to wire a headphone amp to the mixer.....it took about 10 days(it actually had to go thru customs) but sure enough I did get my 2 XLR female to 1/4" stereo female adapters.....I plugged it in and would't you know it?? I got true stereo out of this thing thru an xlr cable and into my K240S headset...I have to say, that IS pretty slick... __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

November 1st, 2006, 03:49 PM	#22
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	Eng-44 sorry, not very familiar with PSC, tho I hear they are very good.....my clients all are using the Sound Devices 442 and the 302, which are awesome mixers, but fairly expensive....the 302 is about $1200 and the 442 is about $2300, so the $529 for the eng-44 does put it in a totally different class of gear.... __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

November 2nd, 2006, 11:53 AM	#24
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	The difference in the cost between an eng44 and 442 is very justified. There is at least that much diffference in their quality and feature set. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

October 31st, 2006, 01:06 AM	#18
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	That case looks good for mixer and acc., and yes, a deal. A friend has one of the big audio cases for his very nice Sound Devices mixer, recorder, wireless & lots of goodies - these cases are built very well. Dim sum - yes! SB

November 1st, 2006, 03:37 PM	#21
Vincent Rozenberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 475	Steve, Do you now the PSC mixers? If so, how do they do it compared to this one? Thanks for all your findings so far!

November 1st, 2006, 05:36 PM	#23
Vincent Rozenberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 475	Yep, Sound Devices mixers are divine, I'm a producer/cameraman and all the sound guys I'm working with are using them or Sonosax mixers. IMHO to bad that there is not a broad market for field mixers as there is for studio/live situations. I'm in the market for a mixer myself. But coming from a live-sound background I can not justify 2300 dollars for a 4 input mixer... compare that with a top of the bill Soundcraft mixer with 16 mic inputs (obviously beter ones then on the SD) British EQ and lots more for about the same price.. That's why I'm very interested in the low cost solutions.

November 2nd, 2006, 12:04 PM	#25
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	en4-44 yeah, I would go so far as to say that considering what they give you, the SD mixers are actually a nice value.....but $2300 is still $2300, and each person would have to make a choice based on their needs and the nature of his/her bussiness......if I was a full-time sound only type of dude, I would have sprung for the SD......but I am primarily a shooter, who wanted a mixer in his bag of tricks....most of the shooters i know dont even have their own mixers, so for me, this item is just a bit of gravy for my clients....if I hire a sound person, I would probably expect that he/she show up with an SD or something like it.....on the other hand, there are still a TON of people using old FP32's out there, and coax good sound out of them, so I guess whatever trips your trigger.....$529 is a pretty limited budget for a mixer, but I think this gizmo does pretty OK for the money....so far... __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

November 2nd, 2006, 01:37 PM	#26
Vincent Rozenberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 475	Off course the 442 is a much better mixer, but I do not know if the price difference is justified. I think that it is that much of difference because the fact that there are very few players in that market segment. Maybe time for the Berhringers, Makies, Soundcrafts to come with ENG solutions in their arsenal..?

November 2nd, 2006, 01:54 PM	#27
Barry Gribble Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 817	Steve, I am with you on that. Not saying they are not worth it, but there is a sticker shock coming from the pro-audio world when paying for a 4 channel mixer. Even looking at the $500 models, I definitely went through the process of thinking that I can almost get a solid portable 4-track recorder for the same and just record all tracks instead of mixing them in to the camera. Syncing is no fun, though. __________________ Barry Gribble Integral Arts, IMDB