Digital audio recorders?

Michael Liebergot · September 28th, 2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Largent

Does the Zoom have L and R independantly
adjustable gain?

According to the manual, it does have independantly adjustable L/R Gain input. the only disadvantge is that it's done internally in the menu, and not on the acutal unit itself like the Microtrack.

Marco Leavitt · September 28th, 2006, 03:35 PM

Just to add to all this: I recently bought a HiMD MZ-RH1 and I can't say enough good things about it.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

It has a rugged aluminum casing (both sides), records uncompressed at 16 bit 44.1 and the recordings are unrestricted, although you do have to use the Sony software, which stinks. It works on a Mac as well, but only for self made recordings.

The best thing though is the controls. All of the buttons are large and easy to find without even looking at the unit. I especially love the record button. The gain controls are excellent as well. You could easily ride them if you had to. The display is on the edge, so I velcro to the outside of my SD302 bag (there's already a patch of 'furry' velcro there for the transparent flap that covers the face) and can see both meters at a glance. It remembers all your settings so once you set it up, it's ready to go and you don't have navigate any menus. We use an AD converter which fits beautifully in the lower part of the bag, and record via optical cable. This is one instance that breaks the rule of low cost, convenience and performance. You get all three with this unit. Can't vouch for the preamps, as like I said, we use an AD converter, but I'll bet it would sound great using the line in, something very easy to do with the 302, which has a dedicated output just for that.

It's all so perfect I'm sure Sony's going to kill off the format any day now. :)

Oh, one other thing -- a field swappable internal battery. Takes five seconds. Awesome.

Dave Largent · September 28th, 2006, 11:45 PM

How's that RH1 feel? Like flimsy plastic?
A solid feel to it?
Are the channels independently adjustable?

Steve Leverich · September 29th, 2006, 03:53 PM

Hi everyone, new member here trying to line up all the ducks for a 3-hour conference room shoot this tuesday - I just received the micro-track from B&H, used it to do some room ambience checks at the specific conference room but I'm a bit concerned over the battery thing - has anyone who owns one actually recorded til it died? I've not been able to find a spec on battery life yet, may have to test that part myself in the next few days, since it would be much better NOT to have yet another cord plugged in.

Doing this shoot with consumer DV, both cams have AGC only (yuch) so plan to put a Senn G2/Tram lav on the main guy (instructor), an RE50 on other channel of the micro track, then a Rode Stereo Video mic on one DVcam and a Beachtek DXA-4p with ATM 897 shotgun on one channel and ATM-25 hypercardioid on the other. Will set one DV cam at one side of this fairly narrow room on a tall tripod and hand-hold the other one from other side of the room, so I can later do a "quasi" 2-cam thing in post, with at least one pair of "non-breathing" audio tracks to use.

Sorry for the long post, just don't want to blow this since we'll NOT get a second chance at this material - unless you see some glaring error in the above method, I only need a response to the following -

If you've done a "death rattle" battery test on the Micro-Track, I'd appreciate any comments - thanks... Steve

Steve Leverich · September 29th, 2006, 05:54 PM

Nevermind - from here

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...2496-main.html

"MicroTrack is powered via long-life lithium-ion batteries. You can record for approximately four to five hours on a single charge (or about three hours with phantom power engaged). Recharge the battery by simply connecting MicroTrack to a PC or Mac via USB, or using an optional power supply."

Sounds like my 3-hour shoot's within reasonable limits (no phantom required)... Steve

Stu Holmes · September 29th, 2006, 07:25 PM

Steve my experience of manufacturers statements about probable battery life times for their equipment is that they're almost invariably hopelessly optimistic.
Lithium Ions tend not to reach full capacity until they've gone through 4 or 5 full charge/discharge cycles, so althouh you say that your read "4 to 5 hours" and you think it'll be a 3hour gig, that would.....have me quite concerned i'd run out of juice.

I'd think of a Plan B. - just a thought.

Steve Leverich · September 30th, 2006, 03:34 AM

Good point Stu, and since this unit is the only one involved that has manual level control, even more reason for a plan "B" - which in this case is an extension cord to reach beyond the nearest outlet :=) , making the BATTERY my "plan B"...

BTW, it'll be interesting to see just how MUCH pumping/breathing the AGC's on my two Elura's do, since this conference room is on one side of a heavy manufacturing facility and there's a constant LF throb/hum in the room to keep the AGC awake (maybe) - at any rate, this scenario is a perfect use for the NR setup in Samplitude, which I've used in similar cases with excellent success

(Talk about yer serious "room tone")

Thanks for reminding me that most manufacturers seem to think more highly of their products than us poor end users do... Steve

Steve Leverich · October 1st, 2006, 10:58 PM

Update on the Micro Track battery life - just ran it in record mode, battery only, with headphones monitoring at full volume, after messing around with gains/wireless stuff, etc - mess-around time plus recording time totaled about 3-1/4 hours (all in record mode with phones driven at full volume) - according to the battery indicator there was still a small amount of life left.

I'm thinking that with phones NOT connected it should meet the claims of M Audio (but I'm still taking an extension cord :=)

Other thing I found was that even a Rode video mic (mono one) doesn't really drive this thing very strong thru the mini input - I ended up cutting back on output from my Senn G2 a bit and using the TRS inputs (only way to use the +27 dB gain up feature) - worked fine; (Left/Lav, Right/Rode) still quite clean on playback(didn't listen on monitors, only phones) -

Using a 4 gig CF card @ 24/48 stereo, total record time reported is 3:55, with max per file of 1:55 (without doing the math, I'm assuming this is the fat32 size kicking in.)

One problem I had with this unit (aside from those already mentioned) is no way to mount it to anything - all that comes with it is a dumb little drawstring bag.

Being somewhat of a "mad scientist" type, I found a piece of scrap stainless steel plate (14 gauge), cut it into an "L" shape, drilled a hole in the narrow part of the "L", and bolted it to the unused handle rosette of my Bogen 501 tripod head - I then used a couple of 1/2" wide strips of industrial strength velchro to hold the Micro track to this bracket - this puts the unit right in front of me when I'm behind the camera. I made the mounting plate nice and smooth so there's no need to even remove it from the Microtrack, I just loosen the wing nut and slip it off the tripod.

Gig's day after tomorrow, hoping for a broken leg :=) ... Steve

Marco Leavitt · October 2nd, 2006, 08:00 AM

"How's that RH1 feel? Like flimsy plastic?"

Not at all. It feels very sturdy and rugged. None of the buttons are flimsy either. The left and right audio tracks are not independently adjustable unfortunately.

Victor Burdiladze · October 5th, 2006, 02:39 PM

by the way, b&h finally got zoom h4, so hopefully well get more info from our forum members...

Michael Liebergot · October 5th, 2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Burdiladze

by the way, b&h finally got zoom h4, so hopefully well get more info from our forum members...

My H4, sweetwater.com is on it's way to me as I write this.
I hope to have it sometime early next week, and have some feedback comparing the H4, and my R-09 and Microtrack for everyone in a week or so.

From a poster in another forum, it sounds like this thing is going to be the sweet.

Armand Sonneville · October 11th, 2006, 04:12 AM

Incredible, just had a look at the Zoom H4 on B&H, a 4 track digital recorder for $300....what a steal! I was going to buy the Edirol R-09 but have now changed my mind.

Thanks for the info!

Dave Largent · October 11th, 2006, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armand Sonneville

Incredible, just had a look at the Zoom H4 on B&H, a 4 track digital recorder for $300....what a steal! I was going to buy the Edirol R-09 but have now changed my mind.

Thanks for the info!

You might want to check into the details on that.
I don't think it does 4 channels at once, if that
is a consideration for you.

Dave Largent · October 11th, 2006, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armand Sonneville

Incredible, just had a look at the Zoom H4 on B&H, a 4 track digital recorder for $300....what a steal! I was going to buy the Edirol R-09 but have now changed my mind.

Thanks for the info!

You might want to check into the details on that.
I don't think it does 4 channels at once, if that
is a consideration for you.

Armand Sonneville · October 11th, 2006, 05:03 AM

Just checked the features on the B&H website and I quote:

"Four-Track Recording
Record Multiple Tracks, such as Vocal, Guitar, and Bass, Simultaneously"

So, it should do it but even without that feature its still a steal, it even comes inluded with a 128Mb SD card, all that for $299......

September 28th, 2006, 03:35 PM	#107
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Just to add to all this: I recently bought a HiMD MZ-RH1 and I can't say enough good things about it. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search It has a rugged aluminum casing (both sides), records uncompressed at 16 bit 44.1 and the recordings are unrestricted, although you do have to use the Sony software, which stinks. It works on a Mac as well, but only for self made recordings. The best thing though is the controls. All of the buttons are large and easy to find without even looking at the unit. I especially love the record button. The gain controls are excellent as well. You could easily ride them if you had to. The display is on the edge, so I velcro to the outside of my SD302 bag (there's already a patch of 'furry' velcro there for the transparent flap that covers the face) and can see both meters at a glance. It remembers all your settings so once you set it up, it's ready to go and you don't have navigate any menus. We use an AD converter which fits beautifully in the lower part of the bag, and record via optical cable. This is one instance that breaks the rule of low cost, convenience and performance. You get all three with this unit. Can't vouch for the preamps, as like I said, we use an AD converter, but I'll bet it would sound great using the line in, something very easy to do with the 302, which has a dedicated output just for that. It's all so perfect I'm sure Sony's going to kill off the format any day now. :) Oh, one other thing -- a field swappable internal battery. Takes five seconds. Awesome.

September 28th, 2006, 11:45 PM	#108
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	How's that RH1 feel? Like flimsy plastic? A solid feel to it? Are the channels independently adjustable?

September 29th, 2006, 03:53 PM	#109
Steve Leverich Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Albany Oregon Posts: 173	Hi everyone, new member here trying to line up all the ducks for a 3-hour conference room shoot this tuesday - I just received the micro-track from B&H, used it to do some room ambience checks at the specific conference room but I'm a bit concerned over the battery thing - has anyone who owns one actually recorded til it died? I've not been able to find a spec on battery life yet, may have to test that part myself in the next few days, since it would be much better NOT to have yet another cord plugged in. Doing this shoot with consumer DV, both cams have AGC only (yuch) so plan to put a Senn G2/Tram lav on the main guy (instructor), an RE50 on other channel of the micro track, then a Rode Stereo Video mic on one DVcam and a Beachtek DXA-4p with ATM 897 shotgun on one channel and ATM-25 hypercardioid on the other. Will set one DV cam at one side of this fairly narrow room on a tall tripod and hand-hold the other one from other side of the room, so I can later do a "quasi" 2-cam thing in post, with at least one pair of "non-breathing" audio tracks to use. Sorry for the long post, just don't want to blow this since we'll NOT get a second chance at this material - unless you see some glaring error in the above method, I only need a response to the following - If you've done a "death rattle" battery test on the Micro-Track, I'd appreciate any comments - thanks... Steve

September 29th, 2006, 05:54 PM	#110
Steve Leverich Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Albany Oregon Posts: 173	Nevermind - from here http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...2496-main.html "MicroTrack is powered via long-life lithium-ion batteries. You can record for approximately four to five hours on a single charge (or about three hours with phantom power engaged). Recharge the battery by simply connecting MicroTrack to a PC or Mac via USB, or using an optional power supply." Sounds like my 3-hour shoot's within reasonable limits (no phantom required)... Steve

September 29th, 2006, 07:25 PM	#111
Stu Holmes Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 844	Steve my experience of manufacturers statements about probable battery life times for their equipment is that they're almost invariably hopelessly optimistic. Lithium Ions tend not to reach full capacity until they've gone through 4 or 5 full charge/discharge cycles, so althouh you say that your read "4 to 5 hours" and you think it'll be a 3hour gig, that would.....have me quite concerned i'd run out of juice. I'd think of a Plan B. - just a thought.

September 30th, 2006, 03:34 AM	#112
Steve Leverich Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Albany Oregon Posts: 173	Good point Stu, and since this unit is the only one involved that has manual level control, even more reason for a plan "B" - which in this case is an extension cord to reach beyond the nearest outlet :=) , making the BATTERY my "plan B"... BTW, it'll be interesting to see just how MUCH pumping/breathing the AGC's on my two Elura's do, since this conference room is on one side of a heavy manufacturing facility and there's a constant LF throb/hum in the room to keep the AGC awake (maybe) - at any rate, this scenario is a perfect use for the NR setup in Samplitude, which I've used in similar cases with excellent success (Talk about yer serious "room tone") Thanks for reminding me that most manufacturers seem to think more highly of their products than us poor end users do... Steve

October 1st, 2006, 10:58 PM	#113
Steve Leverich Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Albany Oregon Posts: 173	Update on the Micro Track battery life - just ran it in record mode, battery only, with headphones monitoring at full volume, after messing around with gains/wireless stuff, etc - mess-around time plus recording time totaled about 3-1/4 hours (all in record mode with phones driven at full volume) - according to the battery indicator there was still a small amount of life left. I'm thinking that with phones NOT connected it should meet the claims of M Audio (but I'm still taking an extension cord :=) Other thing I found was that even a Rode video mic (mono one) doesn't really drive this thing very strong thru the mini input - I ended up cutting back on output from my Senn G2 a bit and using the TRS inputs (only way to use the +27 dB gain up feature) - worked fine; (Left/Lav, Right/Rode) still quite clean on playback(didn't listen on monitors, only phones) - Using a 4 gig CF card @ 24/48 stereo, total record time reported is 3:55, with max per file of 1:55 (without doing the math, I'm assuming this is the fat32 size kicking in.) One problem I had with this unit (aside from those already mentioned) is no way to mount it to anything - all that comes with it is a dumb little drawstring bag. Being somewhat of a "mad scientist" type, I found a piece of scrap stainless steel plate (14 gauge), cut it into an "L" shape, drilled a hole in the narrow part of the "L", and bolted it to the unused handle rosette of my Bogen 501 tripod head - I then used a couple of 1/2" wide strips of industrial strength velchro to hold the Micro track to this bracket - this puts the unit right in front of me when I'm behind the camera. I made the mounting plate nice and smooth so there's no need to even remove it from the Microtrack, I just loosen the wing nut and slip it off the tripod. Gig's day after tomorrow, hoping for a broken leg :=) ... Steve

October 2nd, 2006, 08:00 AM	#114
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	"How's that RH1 feel? Like flimsy plastic?" Not at all. It feels very sturdy and rugged. None of the buttons are flimsy either. The left and right audio tracks are not independently adjustable unfortunately.

October 5th, 2006, 02:39 PM	#115
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	by the way, b&h finally got zoom h4, so hopefully well get more info from our forum members...

October 11th, 2006, 04:12 AM	#117
Armand Sonneville New Boot Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London, United Kingdom Posts: 7	Incredible, just had a look at the Zoom H4 on B&H, a 4 track digital recorder for $300....what a steal! I was going to buy the Edirol R-09 but have now changed my mind. Thanks for the info!

October 11th, 2006, 05:03 AM	#120
Armand Sonneville New Boot Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London, United Kingdom Posts: 7	Just checked the features on the B&H website and I quote: "Four-Track Recording Record Multiple Tracks, such as Vocal, Guitar, and Bass, Simultaneously" So, it should do it but even without that feature its still a steal, it even comes inluded with a 128Mb SD card, all that for $299......