Digital audio recorders?

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

thanks for the recommendation Steve. I'll check them out.
But you don't know of a small digital recorder that can take two Line or Mic inputs and adjust the levels of those two inputs separately prior to writing it to a WAV or MP3 file? an all-in-one unit would be great.

I really don't know for sure. Perhaps the M-Audio Microtrack 2496 - you can check their manual online at the M-Audio website. Or go a little larger with the Tascam HD-P2 flash recorder.

[Bill Pryor]

I have the Microtrack, and yes, you can adjust each of the input levels separately.

[Dave Largent]

Originally Posted by Steve House

Behringer has some small mixers in the $100 US range that might do, including a couple of battery operated models as I recall.

I know of this one which runs on four 9V.

http://www.behringer.com/UBB1002/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Might want to check if the phantom with battery
powering is the full 48V or if it goes down to 18V.

I heard of a guy who has one and he says
it's alright. I think it's in the $100 to $200
range.

[Joe Carney]

Also, for the MT2496, I would recomend mics that will let you use batteries in them as oposed to ones that require phantom power.

[Andreas Griesmayr]

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

thanks for the recommendation Steve. I'll check them out.
But you don't know of a small digital recorder that can take two Line or Mic inputs and adjust the levels of those two inputs separately prior to writing it to a WAV or MP3 file? an all-in-one unit would be great.

Hmm...if all you need is to adjust the levels of 2 mics individually, resp. each channel separately, your iRiver iHP120 can do it, that is if you run it with Rockbox - which I highly recommend ayway. It gives you live mic level meters and live separate channel mic level adjustment. you can choose if you want to adjust both together or any individually:
http://www.rockbox.org/

[Stu Holmes]

thanks so much for that Andreas.

Last question - can Rockbox let me adjust input levels when i am recording via LINE IN ? The iRiver firmware i have (1.40E) doesnt let me do this which is pretty annoying as i keep clipping the signal off a mixing desk and theres nothing i can do currently.

[Andreas Griesmayr]

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

thanks so much for that Andreas.

Last question - can Rockbox let me adjust input levels when i am recording via LINE IN ? The iRiver firmware i have (1.40E) doesnt let me do this which is pretty annoying as i keep clipping the signal off a mixing desk and theres nothing i can do currently.

Yes, live level adjustments with LINE-IN recording under Rockbox.

I do not know how it compares to the mic-in recording under the original firmware because I had installed Rockbox the day I received the player. In fact I had chosen the iHP120 because in various forums I had learned of it's very good recording ability when used with Rockbox. I had not been disappointed, I love it.

I can't explain the details, but you will get all your questions answered at taperssection.com, a forum dedicated to audio recording where many use the iRiver iHPs. E.g. check iRiver H1xx taper's FAQ:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,64277.0.html

Even it's AGC seems to be useful, 'Petur', a developer of Rockbox explains it in another thread, http://taperssection.com/index.php/t...068.0/all.html in post #156 as follows:

In the rockbox forum, there's a Recording Enhancement Pack offered (official sources plus a number of patches).
That build includes an AGC. Its default setting is Saferty, which does the following: If levels become too hot (above -3dB I think) it decreases gain by 0.5dB.

For stealth recording this is very nice. Just take a guess at initial gain and know that the AGC will correct if you applied too much gain.
The AGC works fairly slow, so I wouldn't call it a true AGC but more a clipping safety feature.

Gain settings depend on the mics and pre-amp, so it's hard to say.
I would use as much gain on the pre-amp as possible and as close to zero as possible on the iriver. When using the AGC feature, leave some headroom (10dB ?) so it can lower gain if the show gets louder (some rock shows seem to do that near the end)

here the main recording setting choices under Rockbox:

format: PCM Wave/RIFF/WacPack/MPEGlayer3
bitrate: 16/24/32/...../128/160/192/224/256/320 kBit/s
frequency: 44,1kHz/22,05kHz
source: internal mic/line in/digital/FM radio
channels: mono/stereo
file split options: ...various...
prerecord time: off/1sec/2sec/....30sec
clipping light: ....
and more.......

AGC settings to choose:
safety(clip) / live(slow) / DJ-set(slow) / medium/voice(fast)
or the AGC times 200ms/400ms....1s,
and various 'trigger' settings ( which I don't know what they are for )

while recording you can adjust the levels on the recording screen ( pics of it in my last post ) starting from -64dB in 0,5dB steps up to 48dB.
As far as I know all the way the gain is 2/3rds analog, 1/3 digital.

Please refer to the Rockbox manual, also for instructions how to install:
http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml

check also:
http://www.misticriver.net/forumdisplay.php?f=135

Even with Rockbox installed you also can choose to boot your player with the original firmware.
There are bugs reported now and then, but I have not had any problems.
I am sure: Try it and you will love it!

[Andreas Griesmayr]

double post..see below

[Andreas Griesmayr]

Rockbox does line-in recording
For the H120 has not been officially released which means there may be bugs...but no question, if you record Rockbox offers huge improovements and you should get it.
( sorry for 3 posts in a row, while editing the original post with the very slow connection I am battling here it happened that the same post had been sent 3 x and I edited later )

[Anthony Marotti]

Originally Posted by Steve House

Nice recorder with some problems - my biggest caveats are limited battery life and the batts can't be changed in the field - internal fixed batt only in other words. And the mic phantom power is only 30 volts, eliminating your abilty to use some of the better condenser mics that require the full 48v power.

Hello,

I read some reviews that stated that the battery was a weak link. One guy had to replace the battery just after the 90 warranty ran out and had to pay almost $100.00.

The company states that the unit will run for 8 hours (3 hours using phantom power). How long will this unit record for in your experience?

How long does it take to charge?

Can you run it with a power supply off of AC or and additional external battery pack?

Thanks!!!

[David Tamés]

Originally Posted by Anthony Marotti

[...] I read some reviews that stated that the battery was a weak link [...] Can you run it with a power supply off of AC or and additional external battery pack? [...]

I would suggest writing off the Microtrack 2496, the battery is the weak link, lack of full Phantom power voltage was an issue (but less so since I mostly used it with my Sound Devices 302 mixer) and all these problems vexed me for the whole time I owned mine, and then it just up and died on me, kaput, it really bothered me I could not use rechargeable AA batteries with it, so now I"m looking for another recorder, and the replacement, given my experience, is not going to be a Microtrack.

You can power the Microtrack through the USB port, you can plug in it's Charger which powers it through the USB so you can operate it off any USB power source and not drain down the battery. There are several battery packs designed for powering iPods through the USB that could be used with the Microtrack as an extra battery pack.

One good thing that came from the Microtrack dying is that I started using my MacBook Pro laptop with Boom Recorder as its replacement while I decide on another small recorder, and it has been wonderful to work with Boom Recorder, the interface, the metadata, everything about it is so right for recording (except the weight and size of the laptop).

[Anthony Marotti]

Originally Posted by David Tames

I would suggest writing off the Microtrack 2496, the battery is the weak link, lack of full Phantom power voltage was an issue (but less so since I mostly used it with my Sound Devices 302 mixer) and all these problems vexed me for the whole time I owned mine, and then it just up and died on me, kaput, it really bothered me I could not use rechargeable AA batteries with it, so now I"m looking for another recorder, and the replacement, given my experience, is not going to be a Microtrack.

You can power the Microtrack through the USB port, you can plug in it's Charger which powers it through the USB so you can operate it off any USB power source and not drain down the battery. There are several battery packs designed for powering iPods through the USB that could be used with the Microtrack as an extra battery pack.

One good thing that came from the Microtrack dying is that I started using my MacBook Pro laptop with Boom Recorder as its replacement while I decide on another small recorder, and it has been wonderful to work with Boom Recorder, the interface, the metadata, everything about it is so right for recording (except the weight and size of the laptop).

Thanks for the reply David.

What small recording unit are you looking at?

The Tascam is a bit big and pricey for my Run-n-Gun needs, and the Maranz have noisy pre-amps according to what I have read.

What unit will give Great/outstanding quality, have I/O flexibility, run on replaceable batteries, and have a small footprint so as to maybe even strap it onto the camera??

I know I'm asking for a lot, but there just might be a unit out there that fits the bill... and I bet we'd all like to know about that :-)

Thanks Again!

[Guy McLoughlin]

Originally Posted by Anthony Marotti

Maranz have noisy pre-amps according to what I have read.

You can buy a modified Marantz 660 from the Oade Brothers Audio that upgrades the whole audio path to eliminate any hiss and enhance the overall sound quality of it.

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorder...D-660MODS.html

They also sell a modified Fostex FR-2LE, which is slightly larger, with even better sound.

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorder..._upgrades.html

...Beyond this, you are into a Sound Devices 7xx series recorder, starting at almost 2 grand, but this is a state of the art recorder.

[Anthony Marotti]

Thanks again for the info!

My immediate budget is more in the $300 - $400 range. For a little more than some of these mods you could get the Marantz PMD-670, which has 5dB better Signal-to-Noise Ratio.

the mods don't specify what the end result Signal-to-Noise Ratio is... whould you fathom a guess?

I purchased the Edirol R-09 tonight under the agreement that if I didn't like the audio quality I could bring it back. I made the guy check to make sure that there wouldn't be a restocking fee as he stated, but he found out that there would be a 15% fee, so I opted out until I could check with you guys to see if this unit was good enough quality wise and quiet enough from a pre-amp perspective.

At $399.00 this isn't cheap so I would like some feedback.

Other than that, I think I'll wait for a job that will justify the Tascam HD-P2, which I heard some great reviews for.

Again, your opinions are important to me and I appreciate them!

AM

[Brooks Harrington]

Some of the Oade modes appear to be resisters across the mic input to reduce the sensitivity by 10db, thus their claim of improved signal-to-noise ratio. Would be good for rock concerts, ie: PA type recording.

If you read the Oade website, mods and parts are chosen "by ear".... Whos Ear? I would like to have documentation to go along with any modification, wouldn't you??

Tascam good unit.
How about Fostex FR-2LE?

http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm