Need sound advice(pun intended)

[Kevin Cowper]

Hey guys and gals!!

I'm new to this board, just want to say hello! I've been reading and reading for months now, and decided it was time. The wealth of information is a reflection of the people in the industry. Good Stuff

Anyways here;s my question. Now I have read and read and searched this site and can't find a solid answer!

I am my own business, I own a Z1U and have 2 sony C1 wireless Mics, and I have a Final cut editing suite.

Now I am in the market for buying more things to complete my business.
One thing I know I need is a shotgun mic!. I plan to do anything and everything, I don't want to turn down any project, mostly I will be doing weddings, coporate type videos and different peices for the internet clientelle. and perhaps making my own tourism dvds

Now I have the 2 c1 mics, they're great. Already used them and have no probs,

But the onboard mic on the Z1 sucks! and I want to get a different mic, so I can use it to catch better audio, Now for interviews and such things like that I will be using my wireless mics, but if Im doing streeters and things like that (interviewing random ppl) I also shoot and edit 1 minute news type peices for another company for companys ( i hope that makes sense)
and if im capturing random events in the city I want a mic that will capture that sound the best as if you were there type of thing.

Now ive done my research, the me66 or the me64? everyone has theier own opinion.,. is sennheiser the best? i plan to spend close to a 1000 bucks whhich would also give me a stand, wind diffuser thing, clips and different cables, but are these mics the one i want? most of the stuff on this site is just related to what mic to get period. But i want a good mic that will go with my camera! the Z1U

From what i read, people telling people what mic is good but not from experience just from what they have read, but its never this is the mic i use it works good get it! no solid answers

I want the mic to fit my camera (1 of my probs with the me66.. from the pics it looks very long. what is a good mic to always have on the Z1U? to be able to move around with it from location to location with ease and such.

any help will be much apprieciated. I don;t mind spending money I don't want to get crazy but quality is very important to me

[Joe Barker]

Hi Kevin
I'm not a sound expert but having used various shotgun mic's I would recomend buying a quality unit like the sennhieser 416.It costs a lot but the end result is worth the extra expense.Thats my opinion anyway.I recently bought an AT897 shotgun, great mic for the price, but having done a couple of films using both brands, I wish I'd put up the extra cash and got the 416.There's no compromise for quality.

[Kevin Cowper]

thanks joe for you input, i was on the sennheiser site.. is it the 418 ? I couldnt find the 416. And its listed really really expensive like in the 2500 dollar range, thats out of my price range. but is there a huge difference between that mic and other mics?

[Thomas Richter]

I've got the ME66. It is very solid (both buildt and performance). It's really an outdoor mic, it will pick up too much reflection in small interiors.

In my opinion, it sounds very good (back elektret condenser will never perform as well as the real condenser in the 418, but that's another price range).

But the greatest feature is the output signal. It is very hot (ie. strong signal output) hence very forgiving with not-so-great microphone preamps. Providing they can take the strong signal.

I only got the FX1, but maybe someone else can comment on the quality of the Z1's mic preamps.

[Kevin Cowper]

thanks for you input thomas...

but how bad is it indoors? like unuseable indoors? what if its indoors but lets say a reception or a big hall.. does it only sound bad in condensed small areas...

now im thinking of getting the 416... is it really really worth it?

[Stu Holmes]

Originally Posted by Kevin Cowper

thanks joe for you input, i was on the sennheiser site.. is it the 418 ? I couldnt find the 416. And its listed really really expensive like in the 2500 dollar range, thats out of my price range. but is there a huge difference between that mic and other mics?

No it's the MKH416 :

B&H site:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...u=79502&is=REG

Sennheiser site:
http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser...nsf/root/01511

And you can listen to the MKH416 (and AT897 / Rode NTG2 / Senn ME66 + others) here:
http://dvestore.com/theatre/mics_guide.html

rgds

[Thomas Richter]

Oh true, confused the numbers myself. And I even am from "Sennheiser-Land" ;-)

The great thing about the MKH 416 is its ruggedness. It uses a true condenser which produces very good sound and is quite insensitive to damage. The ME66 uses a permanent magnetic charge for the pickup membrane, which is not as good but far easier to build. Hence the price difference. But to be honest, the price difference between MKH 416 and ME66 is not as big in the states as it is in Germany. You may be better off with the more expensive model.

The only real difference in handling is that the MKH 416 always requires 48v phantom power, the ME66 can live without (or the K6 module supplying the ME66, to be precise).

Greetings from the state of microphone builders and football.

[Kevin Cowper]

again thanks for the responses guys!!

much appreicated!

First of all Thomas.. I never even looked to see that you're from Germany, I hope you will be taking in the World Cup!!

Those are great sites Stu, the dvstore site rocks!! so much info. When you talk about phantom power, does that mean power from the camera?
or do i supply batteries?

is it too big for my camera?

[Joe Barker]

Phantom is usualy power from the camera XLR connector or maybe a mixer .

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Kevin,


As I own a small audio rental company in Brazil and did location sound in film for many years, maybe I can help you.

First of all there's an idea you will have to forget if you want to get good sound: the camera is the worst position for the mic to be in.

You can only use it for ambience and nothing else. If you want quality audio you will need to think of different setups for your mics.

That may be difficult if you intend to do everything yourself, which I hope you don't. But if you do, you should do some workshop on audio recording techniques, or your sound will suffer.

Two things will help you on many situations: radio mics (like the ones you have) and mic stands.

The latter is a great help on stationary situations, and most filmmakers don't think of it as an essential tool on small crew shootings. Get one that is sturdy, light and uses little space when carried around. Fix the mic on it and put it as close as your camera frame allows. In weddings it can be close to the church mic.

Get some quick fixings for mics, like those sold by B&H. Get a rubber banded shock-mount and use it all the time. Also get a good foam windscreen.

Radio mics are essential when the subjects move, and do learn some techniques on how to place lapel mics. This is the main thing in wireless mics. The best radio mic quality can be ruined by a badly placed lapel mic. Location Sound Corp.'s catalog used to bring some tips on lapel placing and fixing.

The Sennheiser MKH416 is certainly a good option for your mic, but it's expensive. I would suggest a modular mic, like AKG's Blue Line. Get one with CK98 and CK93 capsules, and they will help you on all situations. These are better options than Sennheiser's ME line.

Get a Rycote kit for the mics.

BTW: we will kick butt at the World Soccer Championship!


Carlos

[Kevin Cowper]

Awesome Carlos!!

great advice all the way from Brasil... yeah I think you guys are going to win, althought argentina are going to be just as good

anyways.. thanks for the advice..

I think what im going to have to do is get 2 mics.. 1 mic for outdoor use and one for indoors
thanksf or your dacive

im going to go look at the ck 98 and 93;s

thanks again carlos...

good luck

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Originally Posted by Kevin Cowper

I think what im going to have to do is get 2 mics.. 1 mic for outdoor use and one for indoors

You don't use different mics for indoors or outdoors. You may use a highest quality type when you are in a studio, like a Neumann, but they are out of the range of most videographers budget.

The MKH416 or the AKG can be used in any situation, you just will have to use a windshield when you are outside. And even that wind protection should depend on how high the wind velocity is. The ideal thing is to use nothing outside, if you can afford it. Some even use a foam screen inside.

That's why I recommended the Rycote (or similar): the basic blimp protection is a silk screen, that you use on most situations, even inside. When the wind is higher you use another protection over that blimp mesh.

About the soccer question: I was born in Argentina and lived in Brazil for 30 years. As you see I have my bases all covered...

Anyway let's hope the sport is good this year.

[Thomas Richter]

That's also a major advantage of the 416 over the ME66 I forgot to mention. Usually, shotgun mics are good for indoors and outdoors. However, the ME66 has the unforgiving attribute of picking up a lot of reflected high frequency sound when used in small locations. But that's a particular weakness of the ME66, it does not translate to all shotgun mics.

True, the camera is the worst position for the mike.

I was looking at the AKG series myself. Definitely a good option (but I cannot expressly recommend as I am lacking the experience with that mike).

It may still be worth to make full use of the modularity and get one capsule with a narrow pickup pattern to use on a boom. And one with a wider pattern for mounting on a mic-stand when the position of the subject changes and you got no extra sound guy.

Carlos, the way it looks, Brasil will win the cup. But, you know, we still have our hopes and illusions ;-)

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

That's also a major advantage of the 416 over the ME66 I forgot to mention. Usually, shotgun mics are good for indoors and outdoors. However, the ME66 has the unforgiving attribute of picking up a lot of reflected high frequency sound when used in small locations. But that's a particular weakness of the ME66, it does not translate to all shotgun mics.

Interesting comment. That's probably due to the way the tube and the slots are designed.

I was looking at the AKG series myself. Definitely a good option (but I cannot expressly recommend as I am lacking the experience with that mike).

I have two sets. I personally prefer it to the 416, particularly the shorter capsule is excellent for interviews.

It may still be worth to make full use of the modularity and get one capsule with a narrow pickup pattern to use on a boom. And one with a wider pattern for mounting on a mic-stand when the position of the subject changes and you got no extra sound guy.

That's a good arrangement. Sometimes the opposite will work too. The shorter capsule is great for music. Once you get used to the mic stand, you can do great things with it.

Carlos, the way it looks, Brasil will win the cup. But, you know, we still have our hopes and illusions ;-)

I really hope we get to see good soccer playing, because I do not like the way it's been played in the last 20 years or so.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

That's also a major advantage of the 416 over the ME66 I forgot to mention. Usually, shotgun mics are good for indoors and outdoors. However, the ME66 has the unforgiving attribute of picking up a lot of reflected high frequency sound when used in small locations. But that's a particular weakness of the ME66, it does not translate to all shotgun mics.

Interesting comment. That's probably due to the way the tube and the slots are designed.

I was looking at the AKG series myself. Definitely a good option (but I cannot expressly recommend as I am lacking the experience with that mike).

I have two sets. I personally prefer it to the 416, particularly the shorter capsule is excellent for interviews.

It may still be worth to make full use of the modularity and get one capsule with a narrow pickup pattern to use on a boom. And one with a wider pattern for mounting on a mic-stand when the position of the subject changes and you got no extra sound guy.

That's a good arrangement. Sometimes the opposite will work too. The shorter capsule is great for music. Once you get used to the mic stand, you can do great things with it.

Carlos, the way it looks, Brasil will win the cup. But, you know, we still have our hopes and illusions ;-)

I really hope we get to see good soccer playing, because I do not like the way it's been played in the last 20 years or so.