Laverlier technique at DVinfo.net

Pete Cofrancesco · May 5th, 2006, 05:10 PM

I'm a novice when it comes to audio and I have a feeling I might be making a mistake.

I'm videoing a series of health seminars and I've been using a wireless lav to record the speaker. The events are at different locations and from event to event I don't know whether the speaker will be using amplication or if i can plug into their sound system.

So the question: Is it bad to lav someone if they're speaking into mic podium that is amplified? Am I going to get a re-verb because the lav will record their actual voice with their voice amplified in the background? A lot of these venue's use cheap podiums with a built in amp and no where to plug in to.

Jack D. Hubbard · May 5th, 2006, 05:18 PM

Pete,
You cannot go wrong using the lav. You pick up the person speaking. Is it the same person speaking all the different locations? If so, that is all the more reason to use the lav to get consistent audio quality. Plugging into an unknown house system can be a receipe for disaster. My rule is always rely on yourself, especially when it comes to audio. You have better quality, better control. Even when a house system is used, say through a mult box, put a shotgun on channel 2 for backup sound in case something goes south.

Pete Cofrancesco · May 5th, 2006, 09:12 PM

thx jack i should get a shot gun for back up. since i'm using beachtech like mic amp/xlr when i plug into the cameras mic jack the built-in camera mic shuts off on the vx2000

Jack D. Hubbard · May 6th, 2006, 01:12 AM

Hi Pete,

Aren't there 2 channels on the beachtek? Can't you plug a shotgun into one channel and the house sound into the other?

JH

Matt Gottshalk · May 7th, 2006, 08:45 AM

What I usually do in this situation is put a "Y" xlr cbale out of the Mic on the podium. 1 leg goes to the house PA, the other goes to MY mixer.

Then I put my Lectro wireless on the main speaker, which also goes into my mixer.

I then pan the channels before going to the camera so that I have 2 distinct feeds in post.

Jacques Mersereau · May 8th, 2006, 11:12 AM

Q) Is it bad to lav someone if they're speaking into mic podium that is amplified?

No, not at all. In fact, a good sounding lav like your Lectro will probably
sound better than the 'goose neck' lectern microphone they provide.

Q) Am I going to get a re-verb because the lav will record their actual voice with their voice amplified in the background?

A) Yes, of course. The lav mic is going to be 'hearing' the entire room
including the PA and all the reflections therein. My advice is to get the
lav mic as close to the sound source as possible. The best results come
when you can actually get the talent to wear a headset mic, such as a
countryman, and then position the mic right at the corner of the mouth
so that it is just out of and behind the talent's blasts of hot air.

You are headed in the right direction IMO. Leave nothing to chance and
do NOT trust "them" to have the right gear.

Guy Cochran · May 8th, 2006, 12:24 PM

I agree w/ Jacques...he's got a huge studio and "lots" of toys. I teach a few times a year out there at his facility on the University of Michigan campus - he knows his stuff.

A lot of the time with stages you have different presenters and no time to mic each individual with a headset. I've even switched to using a headset in our rather "live" sounding studio (hardwood floors, bare walls). Headsets can sound awesome. Especially the Countryman E6i and Audio Technica AT 892.

However, I have the feeling a headset isn't going to fly in your circumstance. So...

Which BeachTek do you have? One with Phantom Power?

If you're going to be producing a lot of these, and can use a hardwire mic, there is an amazing little shotgun for podiums. The sound quality will blow you away.

This shotgun is the size of your pinky finger! You'll just need a way to mount it though. The mic is the Sennheiser ME36.

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite...transid=005065

If Sennheiser would just put bass roll off on this mic and create an on-camera mount, they'd sell thousands!

Stu Holmes · May 8th, 2006, 05:29 PM

Guy

Does that ME36 need phantom power? or can it take a small battery. it's very small (less than 4in. long) so unless it takes a AAA battery i don't know where it'd go !
And is it XLR connection or minijack.

Guy Cochran · May 8th, 2006, 06:35 PM

The Sennheiser ME36 mini shotgun does require Phantom Power.

The thing is smaller than a cigarette yet highly directional and sounds killer.

I can imagine an ME36 hooked up to one of the new BeachTek DXA6vu XLR adapters. With the new VU meters that would be a wicked package.

The connection at the back of the mic is proprietary and requires a special Sennheiser cable or Sennheiser Podium gooseneck to convert it to a standard XLR-3. The only bummer is the price of the 29.5' kevlar-reinforced cable (model MZC30) About $140 and you have to use that cable or go for a MZH3015 podium mic stand/preamp 6" gooseneck.

Pete Cofrancesco · May 8th, 2006, 11:05 PM

to answer a few of your questions:

I have a beachtech like mic amp. it has 2 xlr inputs. its part of an audio technica wireless system. i need to get a shotgun mic and plug it into the 2nd xlr jack. I have been avoiding getting a shotgun because of my limited budget and lack of room on my camera. I mount the wireless receiver on top where the hot shoe is and thats where the shotgun is usually mounted. Of course i could mount in on a stand but then that anouther piece of equipment I need to haul around.

I had one question about a shotgun can it be used on a podium or is it too directional? Like if the person shifts his position a foot or two.

Michael Carter · May 9th, 2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

Guy

Does that ME36 need phantom power? or can it take a small battery. it's very small (less than 4in. long) so unless it takes a AAA battery i don't know where it'd go !
And is it XLR connection or minijack.

One of the handiest things I own is a Peavey phantom power box. It's about 3" x 4" x 2", has two XLR ins & outs, and uses two nine volt batteries. (The 2nd battery is a backup, so if the first gets low, you just flip a switch). It has battery test lights, too. I think it was well under $200. Something like that could help you out.

Seth Bloombaum · May 9th, 2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofran

...I had one question about a shotgun can it be used on a podium or is it too directional? Like if the person shifts his position a foot or two.

Yes, a shotgun mic is too directional to mount on a podium. When the presenter turns their head, or leans in and over the mic, or... the quality of the sound decreases radically. Most podium mics are cardoid, a few are omni.

Stu Holmes · May 9th, 2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Cochran

The Sennheiser ME36 mini shotgun does require Phantom Power.

The thing is smaller than a cigarette yet highly directional and sounds killer.

I can imagine an ME36 hooked up to one of the new BeachTek DXA6vu XLR adapters. With the new VU meters that would be a wicked package.

The connection at the back of the mic is proprietary and requires a special Sennheiser cable or Sennheiser Podium gooseneck to convert it to a standard XLR-3. The only bummer is the price of the 29.5' kevlar-reinforced cable (model MZC30) About $140 and you have to use that cable or go for a MZH3015 podium mic stand/preamp 6" gooseneck.

Aagh! 30feet of cable?! It's currently $129 at B&H ...:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

The ME36 mic itself is $180 at B&H, so the cable's not far off the cost of the mic itself! Shame they don't make a much shorter and less-costly cable.

thanks for the info though Guy.

(and thanks too to Michael Carter)

Guy Cochran · August 16th, 2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Cochran

If you're going to be producing a lot of these, and can use a hardwire mic, there is an amazing little shotgun for podiums. The sound quality will blow you away.

This shotgun is the size of your pinky finger! You'll just need a way to mount it though. The mic is the Sennheiser ME36.

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite...transid=005065

If Sennheiser would just put bass roll off on this mic and create an on-camera mount, they'd sell thousands!

Wow - Sennheiser is listening - the ME36 made smaller for camcorder use - Introducing the MKE 400.
http://gadzetomania.pl/2007/05/12/mi...eiser-mke-400/

Ty Ford · August 17th, 2007, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofran

thx jack i should get a shot gun for back up. since i'm using beachtech like mic amp/xlr when i plug into the cameras mic jack the built-in camera mic shuts off on the vx2000

Hello Peter,

A shotgun will not save your butt in this situation. BTW, I always specify a Countryman E6 for hardwired or wireless presenters, especially when thay are also be amplified by a PA system.

Regards,

Ty Ford

May 5th, 2006, 05:10 PM	#1
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Laverlier technique I'm a novice when it comes to audio and I have a feeling I might be making a mistake. I'm videoing a series of health seminars and I've been using a wireless lav to record the speaker. The events are at different locations and from event to event I don't know whether the speaker will be using amplication or if i can plug into their sound system. So the question: Is it bad to lav someone if they're speaking into mic podium that is amplified? Am I going to get a re-verb because the lav will record their actual voice with their voice amplified in the background? A lot of these venue's use cheap podiums with a built in amp and no where to plug in to.

May 5th, 2006, 05:18 PM	#2
Jack D. Hubbard Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Menlo Park, CA Posts: 342	Use the lav Pete, You cannot go wrong using the lav. You pick up the person speaking. Is it the same person speaking all the different locations? If so, that is all the more reason to use the lav to get consistent audio quality. Plugging into an unknown house system can be a receipe for disaster. My rule is always rely on yourself, especially when it comes to audio. You have better quality, better control. Even when a house system is used, say through a mult box, put a shotgun on channel 2 for backup sound in case something goes south.

May 6th, 2006, 01:12 AM	#4
Jack D. Hubbard Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Menlo Park, CA Posts: 342	Two Channels on the Beachtek Hi Pete, Aren't there 2 channels on the beachtek? Can't you plug a shotgun into one channel and the house sound into the other? JH

May 8th, 2006, 11:12 AM	#6
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Q) Is it bad to lav someone if they're speaking into mic podium that is amplified? No, not at all. In fact, a good sounding lav like your Lectro will probably sound better than the 'goose neck' lectern microphone they provide. Q) Am I going to get a re-verb because the lav will record their actual voice with their voice amplified in the background? A) Yes, of course. The lav mic is going to be 'hearing' the entire room including the PA and all the reflections therein. My advice is to get the lav mic as close to the sound source as possible. The best results come when you can actually get the talent to wear a headset mic, such as a countryman, and then position the mic right at the corner of the mouth so that it is just out of and behind the talent's blasts of hot air. You are headed in the right direction IMO. Leave nothing to chance and do NOT trust "them" to have the right gear. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

May 8th, 2006, 12:24 PM	#7
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	I agree w/ Jacques...he's got a huge studio and "lots" of toys. I teach a few times a year out there at his facility on the University of Michigan campus - he knows his stuff. A lot of the time with stages you have different presenters and no time to mic each individual with a headset. I've even switched to using a headset in our rather "live" sounding studio (hardwood floors, bare walls). Headsets can sound awesome. Especially the Countryman E6i and Audio Technica AT 892. However, I have the feeling a headset isn't going to fly in your circumstance. So... Which BeachTek do you have? One with Phantom Power? If you're going to be producing a lot of these, and can use a hardwire mic, there is an amazing little shotgun for podiums. The sound quality will blow you away. This shotgun is the size of your pinky finger! You'll just need a way to mount it though. The mic is the Sennheiser ME36. http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite...transid=005065 If Sennheiser would just put bass roll off on this mic and create an on-camera mount, they'd sell thousands! __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore! Last edited by Guy Cochran; May 8th, 2006 at 01:49 PM.

May 5th, 2006, 09:12 PM	#3
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	thx jack i should get a shot gun for back up. since i'm using beachtech like mic amp/xlr when i plug into the cameras mic jack the built-in camera mic shuts off on the vx2000

May 7th, 2006, 08:45 AM	#5
Matt Gottshalk Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Potomac Falls, VA Posts: 215	What I usually do in this situation is put a "Y" xlr cbale out of the Mic on the podium. 1 leg goes to the house PA, the other goes to MY mixer. Then I put my Lectro wireless on the main speaker, which also goes into my mixer. I then pan the channels before going to the camera so that I have 2 distinct feeds in post.

May 8th, 2006, 05:29 PM	#8
Stu Holmes Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 844	Guy Does that ME36 need phantom power? or can it take a small battery. it's very small (less than 4in. long) so unless it takes a AAA battery i don't know where it'd go ! And is it XLR connection or minijack.

May 8th, 2006, 06:35 PM	#9
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	The Sennheiser ME36 mini shotgun does require Phantom Power. The thing is smaller than a cigarette yet highly directional and sounds killer. I can imagine an ME36 hooked up to one of the new BeachTek DXA6vu XLR adapters. With the new VU meters that would be a wicked package. The connection at the back of the mic is proprietary and requires a special Sennheiser cable or Sennheiser Podium gooseneck to convert it to a standard XLR-3. The only bummer is the price of the 29.5' kevlar-reinforced cable (model MZC30) About $140 and you have to use that cable or go for a MZH3015 podium mic stand/preamp 6" gooseneck. __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!

May 8th, 2006, 11:05 PM	#10
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	to answer a few of your questions: I have a beachtech like mic amp. it has 2 xlr inputs. its part of an audio technica wireless system. i need to get a shotgun mic and plug it into the 2nd xlr jack. I have been avoiding getting a shotgun because of my limited budget and lack of room on my camera. I mount the wireless receiver on top where the hot shoe is and thats where the shotgun is usually mounted. Of course i could mount in on a stand but then that anouther piece of equipment I need to haul around. I had one question about a shotgun can it be used on a podium or is it too directional? Like if the person shifts his position a foot or two.