Untraditional Microphones/Mixers...

Marco Leavitt · May 2nd, 2006, 08:36 AM

Hard to say. I don't own any wireless, but it's getting to be a damned nuisance. Still, a good hypercardiod is something you will use on almost every shoot. On the other hand, ME64 is pretty decent for most indoor situations (assuming you can get it close enough).

The only thing is too seriously think about how badly you need wireless. If it's critical for this shoot, you have your answer. Can you shoot with wired lavs instead? Generally speaking, I find it's best to do without a certain piece of gear if necessary and concentrate on buying top quality.

Stu Holmes · May 2nd, 2006, 11:05 AM

Good thread - enjoying reading it.

I agree with Marco in that since you already have the ME66/K6 it kinda makes sense to get the ME64 as you already have the K6 power and you've got the windshield too. I've heard from many people that ME64 sounds really pretty good indoors.
Are you sure the best price in Oz is AUD329 ?! Seems a big stretch from B&H price of USD155 which at current x-rates = about AUD201.

I think the NT3 is a nice mic too (you can hear it in a studio at http://dvestore.com/theatre/index.html in the 'Shotgun Shootout') but again, taking a random dealer in Sydeny (just down the road from where they're made in a Sydney suburb) it's priced at AUD405 !! In the UK you can get this exact mic for GBP88 = AUD212 ! Seems ironic that it's made in Sydney and shipped to the other side of the world and despite that it's half the price you can buy it for in Sydney..

Chris Hocking · May 2nd, 2006, 06:13 PM

Thanks for your replies Marco & Stu...

To be honest, I'm not sure how badly I need the wireless! Take this situation for example. Say I'm filming in an office just out of the city. It's next to a freeway - so you can hear the traffic zipping by. Even though I can empty the office of people, there will still be fan noise, electronic buzzes, etc. which I CANNOT control. Need to capture dialog. Would it be best to use a ME64 on a boom or a wireless lapel? I can't get away with a wired lav as the person will be walking around.

I also agree with Marco when he says "it's best to do without a certain piece of gear if necessary and concentrate on buying top quality gear". I hate owning crap and wasting money on gear that only has a limited life. That said, if the ME64 will do the job then maybe that's the best option?

I guess at the end of the day you just want to achieve audio that's "broadcast/film quality". Could an EXPERT audio tech achieve this quality with an ME64? If they can't then I guess it's better to buy something a little better. If they can, even if it takes a little bit more effort and patience, then I guess it'll do the job - I'll just have to work harder!

In regards to the NT3, I kinda came to the conclusion earlier in this thread that is was too heavy to boom. Was I wrong? It's cheaper than the ME64, so how does it compare up against it?

I'm not sure why the pricing is so different comparing down under to the US! I'm only guessing here, but maybe it's because our population is smaller, thus there are less people in our video industry, therefore there is less demand for this kind of gear and that's why the prices are higher. Kinda makes sense?

Thanks for the link Stu. Going to have a look and listen now...

Chris!

Chris Hocking · May 2nd, 2006, 11:55 PM

After reading a lot of threads and websites on the "Rode NT3" I decided to buy one today. I don't think it's that heavy, and I'm very confident it will work fine on a boom.

I am going to give it a "test drive" over the next week or so and see if it lives up to its reputation. Even if it turns out to not be the world best INDOOR boom mic I still think it's a handy mic to have in my kit.

I am still concidering the ME64 and Sony/Sennheisser lapel systems.

I'm also REALLY interested in the AT4053. I haven't had a chance to "play" with it in person yet.

Has anyone used the MKH416 for INDOOR shoots? I just found out I have free access to one.

Chris!

Steve House · May 3rd, 2006, 04:45 AM

Chris, give a visit to Ty Ford's website and give a listen to his mic comparison clips. One includes the 416 indoors

Chris Hocking · May 3rd, 2006, 04:53 AM

Thanks for your reply Steve. Yeah, Ty's website is on my "to-do list". I'm on dial-up at the moment, so it takes AGES to download movies/sounds. I have had a listen to some of the files though. Very useful resource! Thanks Ty for making it availible to us...!

Chris!

Chris Hocking · May 8th, 2006, 03:25 AM

I got a chance to "play" with my new Rode NT3 this weekend on a friends short film shoot. For an indoor scene, I was actually really impressed with the microphone. It sounded very good! I was using it on a boom; despite what some people have said, it is NOT HEAVY at all.

Now, I'm no audio wizz, but I've been lucky enough to play with some really expensive highend microphone overs the years (and more importantly watch and learn from some very experienced and highly regarded techs using all kinds of cool toys). The NT3, in my opinion, seems like it could quite comfortably compete with some of the really expensive Sennheiser, AT, etc. mics. For recording dialog in a controlled environment INDOORS, the mic does the job quite nicely. When you take the price into concideration as well, it's a great microphone.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'm sure the real audio gods on this forum (Ty Ford springs to mind) will have a slightly different opinion!

Bob Grant · May 8th, 2006, 05:49 AM

No pressure gradient shotgun will perform well indoors. Multi capsule shotguns are a different matter. Sanken make several and I think Neumann have one for around $5K US, the Sankens are much cheaper (around half that) but not affordable for most of us although I'm blessed with having free use of a CSS 5, the mic used to record the web sounds for Spiderman.

All that aside though, avoid all the angst over which mic and focus on where any mic is used. A $5 mic close to the sound source will outperform a $500 farther from the sound source. Therefore even a cheap lapel will do better than an expensive shotgun far from the sound source in a reverberant room.

If you can cope with having leads running to the talent then you can avoid the added cost of wireless, I recently saw a cheap simple solution for this, lapel mic that plugs into small preamp to be worn by the talent which then feeds line level to the camera. Sorry I don't remember the manufacturer but it was bought in Oz, might have been a Senheiser unit, it was cheap enough for the not wealthy shooter to have banging around in the kit bag.

The other type of mic worth a look at are boundary mics, I have a cheapy from Samson and it can do wonders, thinking seriously of getting a more expensive Crown or AKG, these seem to be the sleeper mics that can do the seemingly impossible.

May 2nd, 2006, 06:13 PM	#18
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Reply to Marco & Stu... Thanks for your replies Marco & Stu... To be honest, I'm not sure how badly I need the wireless! Take this situation for example. Say I'm filming in an office just out of the city. It's next to a freeway - so you can hear the traffic zipping by. Even though I can empty the office of people, there will still be fan noise, electronic buzzes, etc. which I CANNOT control. Need to capture dialog. Would it be best to use a ME64 on a boom or a wireless lapel? I can't get away with a wired lav as the person will be walking around. I also agree with Marco when he says "it's best to do without a certain piece of gear if necessary and concentrate on buying top quality gear". I hate owning crap and wasting money on gear that only has a limited life. That said, if the ME64 will do the job then maybe that's the best option? I guess at the end of the day you just want to achieve audio that's "broadcast/film quality". Could an EXPERT audio tech achieve this quality with an ME64? If they can't then I guess it's better to buy something a little better. If they can, even if it takes a little bit more effort and patience, then I guess it'll do the job - I'll just have to work harder! In regards to the NT3, I kinda came to the conclusion earlier in this thread that is was too heavy to boom. Was I wrong? It's cheaper than the ME64, so how does it compare up against it? I'm not sure why the pricing is so different comparing down under to the US! I'm only guessing here, but maybe it's because our population is smaller, thus there are less people in our video industry, therefore there is less demand for this kind of gear and that's why the prices are higher. Kinda makes sense? Thanks for the link Stu. Going to have a look and listen now... Chris!

May 2nd, 2006, 11:55 PM	#19
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Rode NT3 After reading a lot of threads and websites on the "Rode NT3" I decided to buy one today. I don't think it's that heavy, and I'm very confident it will work fine on a boom. I am going to give it a "test drive" over the next week or so and see if it lives up to its reputation. Even if it turns out to not be the world best INDOOR boom mic I still think it's a handy mic to have in my kit. I am still concidering the ME64 and Sony/Sennheisser lapel systems. I'm also REALLY interested in the AT4053. I haven't had a chance to "play" with it in person yet. Has anyone used the MKH416 for INDOOR shoots? I just found out I have free access to one. Chris!

May 3rd, 2006, 04:45 AM	#20
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	Chris, give a visit to Ty Ford's website and give a listen to his mic comparison clips. One includes the 416 indoors __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

May 3rd, 2006, 04:53 AM	#21
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Reply to Steve... Thanks for your reply Steve. Yeah, Ty's website is on my "to-do list". I'm on dial-up at the moment, so it takes AGES to download movies/sounds. I have had a listen to some of the files though. Very useful resource! Thanks Ty for making it availible to us...! Chris!

May 8th, 2006, 03:25 AM	#22
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Rode NT3 I got a chance to "play" with my new Rode NT3 this weekend on a friends short film shoot. For an indoor scene, I was actually really impressed with the microphone. It sounded very good! I was using it on a boom; despite what some people have said, it is NOT HEAVY at all. Now, I'm no audio wizz, but I've been lucky enough to play with some really expensive highend microphone overs the years (and more importantly watch and learn from some very experienced and highly regarded techs using all kinds of cool toys). The NT3, in my opinion, seems like it could quite comfortably compete with some of the really expensive Sennheiser, AT, etc. mics. For recording dialog in a controlled environment INDOORS, the mic does the job quite nicely. When you take the price into concideration as well, it's a great microphone. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'm sure the real audio gods on this forum (Ty Ford springs to mind) will have a slightly different opinion!

May 2nd, 2006, 08:36 AM	#16
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Hard to say. I don't own any wireless, but it's getting to be a damned nuisance. Still, a good hypercardiod is something you will use on almost every shoot. On the other hand, ME64 is pretty decent for most indoor situations (assuming you can get it close enough). The only thing is too seriously think about how badly you need wireless. If it's critical for this shoot, you have your answer. Can you shoot with wired lavs instead? Generally speaking, I find it's best to do without a certain piece of gear if necessary and concentrate on buying top quality.

May 2nd, 2006, 11:05 AM	#17
Stu Holmes Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 844	Good thread - enjoying reading it. I agree with Marco in that since you already have the ME66/K6 it kinda makes sense to get the ME64 as you already have the K6 power and you've got the windshield too. I've heard from many people that ME64 sounds really pretty good indoors. Are you sure the best price in Oz is AUD329 ?! Seems a big stretch from B&H price of USD155 which at current x-rates = about AUD201. I think the NT3 is a nice mic too (you can hear it in a studio at http://dvestore.com/theatre/index.html in the 'Shotgun Shootout') but again, taking a random dealer in Sydeny (just down the road from where they're made in a Sydney suburb) it's priced at AUD405 !! In the UK you can get this exact mic for GBP88 = AUD212 ! Seems ironic that it's made in Sydney and shipped to the other side of the world and despite that it's half the price you can buy it for in Sydney..

May 8th, 2006, 05:49 AM	#23
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	No pressure gradient shotgun will perform well indoors. Multi capsule shotguns are a different matter. Sanken make several and I think Neumann have one for around $5K US, the Sankens are much cheaper (around half that) but not affordable for most of us although I'm blessed with having free use of a CSS 5, the mic used to record the web sounds for Spiderman. All that aside though, avoid all the angst over which mic and focus on where any mic is used. A $5 mic close to the sound source will outperform a $500 farther from the sound source. Therefore even a cheap lapel will do better than an expensive shotgun far from the sound source in a reverberant room. If you can cope with having leads running to the talent then you can avoid the added cost of wireless, I recently saw a cheap simple solution for this, lapel mic that plugs into small preamp to be worn by the talent which then feeds line level to the camera. Sorry I don't remember the manufacturer but it was bought in Oz, might have been a Senheiser unit, it was cheap enough for the not wealthy shooter to have banging around in the kit bag. The other type of mic worth a look at are boundary mics, I have a cheapy from Samson and it can do wonders, thinking seriously of getting a more expensive Crown or AKG, these seem to be the sleeper mics that can do the seemingly impossible.