Getting started in sound? at DVinfo.net

Dare Kent · March 31st, 2006, 07:22 PM

I am just starting the filmmaking journey and now I find I need to learn about sound.

I finally decided to go with the sony hc1 hdv camera as I wanted hdv and this camera while not exactly in my price range, I decided to find a wee bit more cash for the purchase.

Now I know that the hc1 is not really set up to do great sound recording.

So now I'm looking for a "starter" sound kit, that is hopefully not to expensive.

But where to start. Do I get an adapter to allow me to input XLR sound?

Or should I just get a separate sound recorder? Then there's mixer's, mic's, and software audio editing programs.

I need help here/hear :) I'm like totally lost.

What do you think would work out best as a starter kit that I could grow with and add to, even if somewhere down the road I change/upgrade to a more pro camera?

Any recommendations on good equipment to buy?

Any help and info would be much appreciated.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 31st, 2006, 07:37 PM

Since you're working on a budget, I'd recommend looking at the Beachtek devices, they're well made, inexpensive, and a great value for the cost.
From there, start planning on spending the bux, unless you're willing to work your way up the food chain. There are lots of good mic's in the 300.00 range, and then you start to jump to the 500.00, and then to the 1K plus range. It all depends on whether you want to start cheap or not.
Consider buying a great lav, or a great hyper for starters, spending in the 200-400.00 range, it all depends on what your needs are. Shooting 2-fers? lectures? what's the target?

Dare Kent · March 31st, 2006, 07:45 PM

I'm looking to film some short scripts I've written and hopefully work my way up to direct one of my full length scripts.

Basically I'm a film director-in-the-making.

David Chapman · March 31st, 2006, 07:53 PM

Most movies don't use the location audio recording when exporting the final edit. They use the audio as a reference to edit the film and then re-record the talent and/or sound effects in a studio while watching a screen of the film to time correctly. Then the sound is matched back up in post. If you want to save the money for later, just use the camera mic up close for the actor to speak into while watching the edit. I've done that a couple times back in college and the sound turned out very good. Just make sure you are in a sound proof room (or something close).

I'm working on a larger budget film and we are using shotgun mics to acquire the audio on location as well as background noise and other sounds to be mixed later on. Once the film is edited, we will be in a recording studio to have the actors reenact the drama to capture a pure quality audio.

If it sounds time-consuming... just remember it will be amazing when it's through. Film costs an hour a sec. in post anyways. A two hour movie could take more than 7,200 hours to create.

Hope that helps,

—The "Real" Chapster

Ty Ford · April 1st, 2006, 11:59 AM

Um,

Maybe in India, but not here. Here, you get as much dialog audio as you can on the shoot and don't forget to get room tone at each setup so you can make everything sound right during post.

The real pros record audio separately because they are usually working with film crews and film cameras don't have audio recorders.

Many pro are now shooting HD video. The sound sections in those cameras, while not as good as the best separate audio recorders, work pretty well if you have someone doing audio who knows what they are doing.

To start, you need a boom and two boom mics; a shotgun and a hypercardioid, with wind protection.

You also need a mixer, headphones, cables for mics and from mixer to camera, at least two lavalier mics and maybe two wireless rigs for the lavs.

Having a handheld mic is a good thing for interviews.

Regards,

Ty Ford

David Chapman · April 1st, 2006, 10:47 PM

I don't think the last guy read that you were on a small budget. And I'm not sure where "here" is but in Hollywood, I know of quite a few films that re-acquire the audio and have the actor dub to the edit. Anyways, I guess the India comment isn't that bad. Did you hear Will Smith is trying to get a job there? It's supposed to be the new film capitol of the world.

Steve House · April 2nd, 2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Chapman

I don't think the last guy read that you were on a small budget. And I'm not sure where "here" is but in Hollywood, I know of quite a few films that re-acquire the audio and have the actor dub to the edit. Anyways, I guess the India comment isn't that bad. Did you hear Will Smith is trying to get a job there? It's supposed to be the new film capitol of the world.

ADR is commonplace but expensive. If you can spend a few more bucks to get it right when you're on the set, you can save a lot of bucks during the post production phases. It becomes a matter of spending a little bit now or a whole lot later. Looking beyond theatrical films, episodic TV productions budgets are always tight even for the "big ticket" shows and you have the additional strictures of time constraints and ADR takes time, lots of time. Because of lower production costs in general - wages, studio time, etc - post production such as ADR is much less expensive in places like India and the balance shifts.

Ty Ford · April 2nd, 2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Chapman

I don't think the last guy read that you were on a small budget. And I'm not sure where "here" is but in Hollywood, I know of quite a few films that re-acquire the audio and have the actor dub to the edit. Anyways, I guess the India comment isn't that bad. Did you hear Will Smith is trying to get a job there? It's supposed to be the new film capitol of the world.

Hey James,

I don't care what budget size one is, you still need the basic tools and that's what I outlined in the kit. ADR , as Steve mentions, is expensive, time consuming, and in this country is usually used in situations where the logistics of the shot preclude audio from being recorded properly in the first place. Maybe you should suggest that the questioner stick with a VHS CAMCORDER. You can pick them up in pawn shops and yard sales for about $100, sometimes less. You'd save a LOT of money that way.

Good ADR, itself, is no mean feat. To suggest that it's an easy option gives the wrong impression.

Thanks for supporting my comment about the burgeoning movie market in India.

Will Smith can probably afford to BUY most of the film industry in India right now.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Dare Kent · April 3rd, 2006, 04:36 PM

So if I decide to go with a beachtek which one do I go with, one with phantom power?

And then what if I decide to record sound outside the camera? What's a good way to get sound to sync in post? A Himd, Dat, Ngara, and do I need a mixer as well?

Thanks for the responses, this is all very confusing to me, but I know sound is a big part of the picture so I am trying to learn to do it right from the start.

March 31st, 2006, 07:22 PM	#1
Dare Kent New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 22	Getting started in sound? I am just starting the filmmaking journey and now I find I need to learn about sound. I finally decided to go with the sony hc1 hdv camera as I wanted hdv and this camera while not exactly in my price range, I decided to find a wee bit more cash for the purchase. Now I know that the hc1 is not really set up to do great sound recording. So now I'm looking for a "starter" sound kit, that is hopefully not to expensive. But where to start. Do I get an adapter to allow me to input XLR sound? Or should I just get a separate sound recorder? Then there's mixer's, mic's, and software audio editing programs. I need help here/hear :) I'm like totally lost. What do you think would work out best as a starter kit that I could grow with and add to, even if somewhere down the road I change/upgrade to a more pro camera? Any recommendations on good equipment to buy? Any help and info would be much appreciated.

March 31st, 2006, 07:37 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Since you're working on a budget, I'd recommend looking at the Beachtek devices, they're well made, inexpensive, and a great value for the cost. From there, start planning on spending the bux, unless you're willing to work your way up the food chain. There are lots of good mic's in the 300.00 range, and then you start to jump to the 500.00, and then to the 1K plus range. It all depends on whether you want to start cheap or not. Consider buying a great lav, or a great hyper for starters, spending in the 200-400.00 range, it all depends on what your needs are. Shooting 2-fers? lectures? what's the target? __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 31st, 2006, 07:45 PM	#3
Dare Kent New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 22	teach myself indie filmmaking I'm looking to film some short scripts I've written and hopefully work my way up to direct one of my full length scripts. Basically I'm a film director-in-the-making.

April 1st, 2006, 11:59 AM	#5
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Um, Maybe in India, but not here. Here, you get as much dialog audio as you can on the shoot and don't forget to get room tone at each setup so you can make everything sound right during post. The real pros record audio separately because they are usually working with film crews and film cameras don't have audio recorders. Many pro are now shooting HD video. The sound sections in those cameras, while not as good as the best separate audio recorders, work pretty well if you have someone doing audio who knows what they are doing. To start, you need a boom and two boom mics; a shotgun and a hypercardioid, with wind protection. You also need a mixer, headphones, cables for mics and from mixer to camera, at least two lavalier mics and maybe two wireless rigs for the lavs. Having a handheld mic is a good thing for interviews. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

April 1st, 2006, 10:47 PM	#6
David Chapman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 346	I don't think the last guy read that you were on a small budget. And I'm not sure where "here" is but in Hollywood, I know of quite a few films that re-acquire the audio and have the actor dub to the edit. Anyways, I guess the India comment isn't that bad. Did you hear Will Smith is trying to get a job there? It's supposed to be the new film capitol of the world. __________________ David Chapman www.davechapfilms.com

March 31st, 2006, 07:53 PM	#4
David Chapman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 346	Most movies don't use the location audio recording when exporting the final edit. They use the audio as a reference to edit the film and then re-record the talent and/or sound effects in a studio while watching a screen of the film to time correctly. Then the sound is matched back up in post. If you want to save the money for later, just use the camera mic up close for the actor to speak into while watching the edit. I've done that a couple times back in college and the sound turned out very good. Just make sure you are in a sound proof room (or something close). I'm working on a larger budget film and we are using shotgun mics to acquire the audio on location as well as background noise and other sounds to be mixed later on. Once the film is edited, we will be in a recording studio to have the actors reenact the drama to capture a pure quality audio. If it sounds time-consuming... just remember it will be amazing when it's through. Film costs an hour a sec. in post anyways. A two hour movie could take more than 7,200 hours to create. Hope that helps, —The "Real" Chapster

April 3rd, 2006, 04:36 PM	#9
Dare Kent New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 22	sound So if I decide to go with a beachtek which one do I go with, one with phantom power? And then what if I decide to record sound outside the camera? What's a good way to get sound to sync in post? A Himd, Dat, Ngara, and do I need a mixer as well? Thanks for the responses, this is all very confusing to me, but I know sound is a big part of the picture so I am trying to learn to do it right from the start.