AKG or A/T Hypercadioids? at DVinfo.net

Steve House · March 7th, 2006, 09:22 AM

Looking for comments and feedback pro and con choosing between the AKG Blue Line SE300B power module/ CK93 hypercadioid capsule combo and the Audio-Technica AT4053a hypercardioid mics. Wondering if there's decisive reasons to go one way or the other in choosing a mic that can do double duty for dialog on the end of a boom or on a stand recording music on location? How does either one compare with the Holy Grail of hypers, the Schoeps CMC641 (of course, at 1/3 the price they're not going to be serious competition for the Schoeps but which one comes closer)?

Does the picture change if we add the AKG Ultra Linear Series C480B/CK63 combo into the mix even though it's double the price of the other two? Any compelling reason to spend double the money for it?

Dan Keaton · March 7th, 2006, 09:28 AM

I would like to see a comparison of the Neumann KMS-105 versus the Schoeps 641.

I needed to mike an unexpected event, indoors in a very boomy room, hard floors, hard walls, no sound absorbent material anywhere. I do not own the Schoeps 641, but I did have two Neumann KMS-105's available.

I tried the Sennheiser MKH-70 shotgun mike and it was unsuitable in this situation. So I tried the Neumann KMS-105 and it worked great!

I welcome any comments.

Tim Gray · March 7th, 2006, 09:43 AM

Though its not a KMS-105 or Schoeps 641, I think the Senn MKH50 would have been a better choice than the MKH70 - Aren't boomy rooms the exact kind of situation where you don't want a shotgun (especially a long one)?

Dan Keaton · March 7th, 2006, 09:57 AM

Yes, I agree completely.

I just mounted the Sennheiser MKH-70 up as a test, expecting to have trouble recording dialog, and I did. I had never tried using the MKH-70 indoors before and I thought it would be worth a test. I had never tried using the KMS-105's in this type of situation for recording dialog either. So I tried the MKH-70 first, and then switched to the KMS-105.

The test proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the MKH-70 should not be used indoors in a boomy room. I do not have a MKH-50, and I did not have time to get my friend's MKH-60.

Please remember that this was a completely unexpected shoot. I was notified at 5 pm and had to show up at 6 pm.

I have been considering the purchase of the Schoeps 641 for just a situation. But since I did not have one available, I thought I would try the Neumann KMS-105. My other choices were Neumann U87 a i's or Sennheiser Evolution wireless.

I did not want to use the U87 a i's, and the wireless would not work in the shoot due to the number of actors involved and the time it would take to setup each individual prior to each take.

I was very pleased with the KMS-105's.

I would love to see a side by side comparison of the KMS-105 and the 641.

Tim Gray · March 7th, 2006, 01:54 PM

Sounds cool. This is the 105, right?
http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=c...5s_description

From the specs (which aren't everything) it looks like it has a pretty hefty boost on the high frequencies. The pattern doesn't look as tight as the schoeps either - looks a lot more cardiod. I bet it's a real nice mic though :)

I've never used a Schoeps 641 (though I did have a pair of 64's), but the senn MKH50 can be gotten used for about half the price. Has a bit of a bump in the upper freqencies, but it's working out pretty good for me. I'd love to do a comparison bewteen it, the 641, some AKG hypers, and whatever else is suitable...

Dan Keaton · March 7th, 2006, 03:36 PM

Dear Tim,

I believe your link goes to the KK-105.

I am referring to the KMS-105.

http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=c...05_description

It is interesting to go to "Technical Data" and then click on "Interactive Diagrams", then click on different frequencies to see the pickup pattern for the selected frequency.

Marco Leavitt · March 7th, 2006, 04:12 PM

Well, I went with the CK93 because it has cool accessories like an active cable and swivel head, but then I never bothered to buy any of them. The active cable is like $300! I do like the mic quite a bit though. Haven't used the AT4053, but it comes highly recommended. I don't think you can go wrong with either mic.

Tim Gray · March 7th, 2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Tim,

I believe your link goes to the KK-105.

I am referring to the KMS-105.

Whoops. You are right. However, despite my ignorance, I think the it shares the same technical data. Quote from the KK-105 page: "The capsule head of the KMS vocal microphone"

Anyway, I looked at the correct link and make the same comments. A bit more cardiod (not necessarily bad) and a bump in the highs compared to the schoeps mk 41 capsule.

About the Blueline mics. I've never heard them, but it looks like a really cool system. If you want to pick up some accessories for them, check out www.taperssection.com in the Yard Sale section. They go through them a fair bit - I've seen the fig 8 head there for not too much money.

Steve House · March 8th, 2006, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Gray

...

About the Blueline mics. I've never heard them, but it looks like a really cool system. If you want to pick up some accessories for them, check out www.taperssection.com in the Yard Sale section. They go through them a fair bit - I've seen the fig 8 head there for not too much money.

The figure-8 is one reason I'm leaning towards the blueline - two power units plus get a couple of cardioid and hypercardioid heads and a figure-8 head and you're all set for your choice of X/Y, ORTF, or MS stereo setups. I haven't found a figure-8 yet in the same line as the AT4053.

Marco Leavitt · March 8th, 2006, 09:52 AM

I'm curious about the Blueline shotgun. I wonder how it compares to the AT897 or the AT4073? In a run and gun situation it would be cool to be able to rapidly switch caps. The system uses a bayonet mount that works very well. The heads just twist on and off with a snap. It's really neat.

March 7th, 2006, 09:22 AM	#1
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	AKG or A/T Hypercadioids? Looking for comments and feedback pro and con choosing between the AKG Blue Line SE300B power module/ CK93 hypercadioid capsule combo and the Audio-Technica AT4053a hypercardioid mics. Wondering if there's decisive reasons to go one way or the other in choosing a mic that can do double duty for dialog on the end of a boom or on a stand recording music on location? How does either one compare with the Holy Grail of hypers, the Schoeps CMC641 (of course, at 1/3 the price they're not going to be serious competition for the Schoeps but which one comes closer)? Does the picture change if we add the AKG Ultra Linear Series C480B/CK63 combo into the mix even though it's double the price of the other two? Any compelling reason to spend double the money for it? __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

March 7th, 2006, 09:28 AM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	I would like to see a comparison of the Neumann KMS-105 versus the Schoeps 641. I needed to mike an unexpected event, indoors in a very boomy room, hard floors, hard walls, no sound absorbent material anywhere. I do not own the Schoeps 641, but I did have two Neumann KMS-105's available. I tried the Sennheiser MKH-70 shotgun mike and it was unsuitable in this situation. So I tried the Neumann KMS-105 and it worked great! I welcome any comments. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 7th, 2006, 09:57 AM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Yes, I agree completely. I just mounted the Sennheiser MKH-70 up as a test, expecting to have trouble recording dialog, and I did. I had never tried using the MKH-70 indoors before and I thought it would be worth a test. I had never tried using the KMS-105's in this type of situation for recording dialog either. So I tried the MKH-70 first, and then switched to the KMS-105. The test proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the MKH-70 should not be used indoors in a boomy room. I do not have a MKH-50, and I did not have time to get my friend's MKH-60. Please remember that this was a completely unexpected shoot. I was notified at 5 pm and had to show up at 6 pm. I have been considering the purchase of the Schoeps 641 for just a situation. But since I did not have one available, I thought I would try the Neumann KMS-105. My other choices were Neumann U87 a i's or Sennheiser Evolution wireless. I did not want to use the U87 a i's, and the wireless would not work in the shoot due to the number of actors involved and the time it would take to setup each individual prior to each take. I was very pleased with the KMS-105's. I would love to see a side by side comparison of the KMS-105 and the 641. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia Last edited by Dan Keaton; March 7th, 2006 at 03:42 PM.

March 7th, 2006, 03:36 PM	#6
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Tim, I believe your link goes to the KK-105. I am referring to the KMS-105. http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=c...05_description It is interesting to go to "Technical Data" and then click on "Interactive Diagrams", then click on different frequencies to see the pickup pattern for the selected frequency. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 7th, 2006, 09:43 AM	#3
Tim Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Media, PA Posts: 144	Though its not a KMS-105 or Schoeps 641, I think the Senn MKH50 would have been a better choice than the MKH70 - Aren't boomy rooms the exact kind of situation where you don't want a shotgun (especially a long one)?

March 7th, 2006, 01:54 PM	#5
Tim Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Media, PA Posts: 144	Sounds cool. This is the 105, right? http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=c...5s_description From the specs (which aren't everything) it looks like it has a pretty hefty boost on the high frequencies. The pattern doesn't look as tight as the schoeps either - looks a lot more cardiod. I bet it's a real nice mic though :) I've never used a Schoeps 641 (though I did have a pair of 64's), but the senn MKH50 can be gotten used for about half the price. Has a bit of a bump in the upper freqencies, but it's working out pretty good for me. I'd love to do a comparison bewteen it, the 641, some AKG hypers, and whatever else is suitable...

March 7th, 2006, 04:12 PM	#7
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Well, I went with the CK93 because it has cool accessories like an active cable and swivel head, but then I never bothered to buy any of them. The active cable is like $300! I do like the mic quite a bit though. Haven't used the AT4053, but it comes highly recommended. I don't think you can go wrong with either mic.

March 8th, 2006, 09:52 AM	#10
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I'm curious about the Blueline shotgun. I wonder how it compares to the AT897 or the AT4073? In a run and gun situation it would be cool to be able to rapidly switch caps. The system uses a bayonet mount that works very well. The heads just twist on and off with a snap. It's really neat.