Rode and Senni for ambient recording! at DVinfo.net

Graham Bernard · February 22nd, 2006, 02:20 AM

Well, call me dumb!

2 nights back I captured a "walk-up" scratch gig.

This is me with my XM2.

After being unimpressed with the sound I was getting from a position, left of centre, I walked an arc to the right. Found a place where my ears "liked" the sound and decided to video/audio from this point. But the other thing that astounded me was the results from my Rode Video mic and my Senni reporter's mic! I had both facing forward and pointing at the stage. However - and this is where I have to admit to being dumb over the past 3 years - I actual now have a 2 track sound that is just so remarkable, it is as if I'm there! I'm sure more kit and mixers and the like could do a better job, but it is this "interplay" of these two DIFFERENT mics that has allowed me to actually hear layers and qualities that I could not have dreamt of before.

So, I have two different profile mics one on each separate channel. Now the real exciting test will come when I now mix these within Vegas and start applying Pans and doubling tracks for achieving a more fuller sound.

In summary?

1/- Walking the Arc

2/- 2 very different mics

I guess the real trick would be to then have this setup and then Tx the output to an Rx wherever I would want to video from. This would loose me the 2 tracks. So maybe cabling.

Just passing this revelation along . .. .

Grazie

Seth Bloombaum · February 22nd, 2006, 12:28 PM

Grazie, glad this worked for you. Walking till you find the sound you like is a great practice. Many may be unaware that in most halls there will be dramatic differences at various places.

One place you know it's going to sound good is right by the sound console (if the sound engineer is any good at all!) You can also walk the microphones around while listening to the headphones (maybe this is what you did).

Regarding the multiple mics, there are several cues that help our perception of stereo sound. First, it's important to remember that just as seeing takes place in the brain, not the eyes, so it is with sound.

We interpret extremely small phase, timing, timbre and volume differences when we have spatial perception of sound. This is the basis of recording with a stereo pair of microphones (or a stereo mic). You've lucked into a mic config that is giving you some of these spatial cues... they may not match the perceptions of sitting in the hall, but if it sounds good, it is good!

If you like that and want to do more, you can be really dangerous with a pair of small-diaphram condensor mics. There are lots of stereo configs to try such as x/y, ORTF, spaced pair. I've had a lot of fun with this, especially with acoustic music performances with no house sound system.

Cheers,
Seth

Graham Bernard · February 22nd, 2006, 02:19 PM

Seth, thanks.

I may have an opportunity to get my hands on a stereo mic setup to do some experimentation. Maybe even do what you suggest.

I understand your wish to make me aware of getting something that I may not be in control of. I guess that is what you are getting at.

And I will get more ops to do this music gig.

Grazie

Seth Bloombaum · February 23rd, 2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard

I understand your wish to make me aware of getting something that I may not be in control of. I guess that is what you are getting at.

Oh, not exactly. In this case, getting "dangerous" would be a good thing. Really, I've had a lot of fun and (mostly) very good results with stereo recording techniques, I wish you the same. Sounds like you had some fun with the gig, I say do more!

Seth

Steve Sirinides · March 27th, 2006, 01:26 AM

Hey Graham, I could post this on the GL2 board but since you're here...

Can you do the same thing on your XL2? Work with two mics simultaneously? I haven't figured out how to do this yet, but when I get my new Senny I'd like to know how I could use that to record at the same time with my Rode to catch some true stereo sound. Would I need a Beachtek?

If anyone else could chime in on this that'd be great.

Graham Bernard · March 27th, 2006, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Sirinides

Hey Graham, I could post this on the GL2 board but since you're here...

Can you do the same thing on your XL2? Work with two mics simultaneously? I haven't figured out how to do this yet, but when I get my new Senny I'd like to know how I could use that to record at the same time with my Rode to catch some true stereo sound. Would I need a Beachtek?

If anyone else could chime in on this that'd be great.

Hi Steve!

Nope, I don't have an XL2 - I wish! - - XM2 here!

Eh? If I'm reading you correctly:

1/- I have a MA300 adapter - no Beachie here. I've only used the XLR connection which "directs" each mic to each channel.

2/- There is the making of neat question here Steve - "How do we use each "separate" mic output as mono and mix using the XM2's Dual Channel vol control?" - How do we input through the mic jack, the 2 separate mic inputs?

Dunno! An inverse "Y" splitter? Right and Left on each arm of the Y and then the stem of the Y taling in 2 discreet channels. Got me beat there!

As to getting true stereo, well what I did was not stereo. It was 2 mics of different audio profiles being aimed at something my ears liked the sound of. The result had depth and richness. Now if I was to record "stereo" I would need to have some form of X-X or is that Y-X configuration of 2 mics OR a purpose design/built stereo input device. Yes? Does ANY of this make sense? Apologies if I've confused you further.

Regards,

Grazie

Steve Sirinides · March 27th, 2006, 04:32 AM

Thanks Graham - I understand what you're saying. And sorry for the XL2-XM2 confusion. I keep confusing the names when I try and translate into the PAL models. I have a GL2, to avoid future confusion for either of us.

Basically, I need a MA300 or a Beachtek adapter to use two microphones, unless the input on the GL2 will take a Y splitter with two separate mics attached. I don't have another mic to test it on. At least none that have a 3.5mm jack.

I really don't need one just yet - most of the work I'm doing now is interviews and footage that will be dubbed over with voice and music. But in the future I really would like to work with two microphones like the Rode and the Senni G2 series. Thanks for your input again, Grazie.

Steve

Stu Holmes · March 28th, 2006, 12:07 PM

Hi Graham

Good thread.
Can i ask what model Senn reporter's mic you got please?

cheers

February 22nd, 2006, 02:20 AM	#1
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Rode and Senni for ambient recording! Well, call me dumb! 2 nights back I captured a "walk-up" scratch gig. This is me with my XM2. After being unimpressed with the sound I was getting from a position, left of centre, I walked an arc to the right. Found a place where my ears "liked" the sound and decided to video/audio from this point. But the other thing that astounded me was the results from my Rode Video mic and my Senni reporter's mic! I had both facing forward and pointing at the stage. However - and this is where I have to admit to being dumb over the past 3 years - I actual now have a 2 track sound that is just so remarkable, it is as if I'm there! I'm sure more kit and mixers and the like could do a better job, but it is this "interplay" of these two DIFFERENT mics that has allowed me to actually hear layers and qualities that I could not have dreamt of before. So, I have two different profile mics one on each separate channel. Now the real exciting test will come when I now mix these within Vegas and start applying Pans and doubling tracks for achieving a more fuller sound. In summary? 1/- Walking the Arc 2/- 2 very different mics I guess the real trick would be to then have this setup and then Tx the output to an Rx wherever I would want to video from. This would loose me the 2 tracks. So maybe cabling. Just passing this revelation along . .. . Grazie

February 22nd, 2006, 12:28 PM	#2
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Grazie, glad this worked for you. Walking till you find the sound you like is a great practice. Many may be unaware that in most halls there will be dramatic differences at various places. One place you know it's going to sound good is right by the sound console (if the sound engineer is any good at all!) You can also walk the microphones around while listening to the headphones (maybe this is what you did). Regarding the multiple mics, there are several cues that help our perception of stereo sound. First, it's important to remember that just as seeing takes place in the brain, not the eyes, so it is with sound. We interpret extremely small phase, timing, timbre and volume differences when we have spatial perception of sound. This is the basis of recording with a stereo pair of microphones (or a stereo mic). You've lucked into a mic config that is giving you some of these spatial cues... they may not match the perceptions of sitting in the hall, but if it sounds good, it is good! If you like that and want to do more, you can be really dangerous with a pair of small-diaphram condensor mics. There are lots of stereo configs to try such as x/y, ORTF, spaced pair. I've had a lot of fun with this, especially with acoustic music performances with no house sound system. Cheers, Seth

February 22nd, 2006, 02:19 PM	#3
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Seth, thanks. I may have an opportunity to get my hands on a stereo mic setup to do some experimentation. Maybe even do what you suggest. I understand your wish to make me aware of getting something that I may not be in control of. I guess that is what you are getting at. And I will get more ops to do this music gig. Grazie

March 27th, 2006, 01:26 AM	#5
Steve Sirinides Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 41	Hey Graham, I could post this on the GL2 board but since you're here... Can you do the same thing on your XL2? Work with two mics simultaneously? I haven't figured out how to do this yet, but when I get my new Senny I'd like to know how I could use that to record at the same time with my Rode to catch some true stereo sound. Would I need a Beachtek? If anyone else could chime in on this that'd be great.

March 27th, 2006, 04:32 AM	#7
Steve Sirinides Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 41	Thanks Graham - I understand what you're saying. And sorry for the XL2-XM2 confusion. I keep confusing the names when I try and translate into the PAL models. I have a GL2, to avoid future confusion for either of us. Basically, I need a MA300 or a Beachtek adapter to use two microphones, unless the input on the GL2 will take a Y splitter with two separate mics attached. I don't have another mic to test it on. At least none that have a 3.5mm jack. I really don't need one just yet - most of the work I'm doing now is interviews and footage that will be dubbed over with voice and music. But in the future I really would like to work with two microphones like the Rode and the Senni G2 series. Thanks for your input again, Grazie. Steve

March 28th, 2006, 12:07 PM	#8
Stu Holmes Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 844	Hi Graham Good thread. Can i ask what model Senn reporter's mic you got please? cheers