Please help- Emergency Boompole help needed! at DVinfo.net

Ashley Cooper · February 21st, 2006, 03:03 AM

Sorry for the urgent title, but I bought a boom pole from Trew Audio and have until tomorrow to tell them if I want to return it. Anyway, I made a special trip hours out of my way to visit the Trew audio store in Nashville, the main goal of which was to pick out a new boom pole. Unfortunately I got there later than I had planned (Nashville traffic sucks) and they didn’t have everything in stock, so it wasn’t a perfect test. Anyway, I had never used an internally cabled boom, so the salesman had me check out a K-Tek K-202CC internally cabled carbon fiber boom pole. Either extended fully to 16’ or compressed to nearly its 3’ limit, the internal cable didn’t seem to make any appreciable noise for normal boom movements. The only time I heard the cable was when I intentionally rattled the boom to try to hear the cable inside and I doubt this will come up in any field situation. So, I concluded that internal cabling was a good idea.
I then compared the K-Tek to a VDB and a PSP boom for the kind of handling noise that comes from finger movements and hand readjustments. Trying them a few ways, including holding them like pool cues, I found the VDB muted the handling by a significant margin better than the other two and the K-Tek seemed to be the loudest. I’ve always thought this was something that wasn’t made enough of when it comes to boompoles. There were no internally cabled VDB or PSP booms to check out, but the salesman assured me that they would behave just as the K-Tek with regard to the internal cable’s noise. So I bought the large (12’8”) VDB pole, which seemed nice as it was the cheapest option of the 3 brands.
The VDB pole arrived on Friday and testing it here, I find it much more susceptible to the cord noise that the K-Tek seemed to handle so well (I’m also having a hard time compressing it back to it’s smallest size, but that’s a different issue). For example, I hear the cord rattle when I twist the pole from an 8:00 position to a 4:00 position, and this is something I need to do quite often. So, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with any of these brands (or one not mentioned) and can comment on this cord noise. Are there brands that just deal with this better? Is VDB just not as good as the other brands? Really, any info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks ahead of time for any help!

Rob Wilson · February 21st, 2006, 08:56 AM

Ashley,

I've not used a internal cable boom pole but have heard that they should be extended to maximum length to minimize cable noise. Guessing that when the cable is somewhat taught, it rolls around less.

Manfred Klemme · February 21st, 2006, 02:30 PM

Hi....

The K-202 pole is nearly 17 ft long. In the K-202CC configuration it has an internal coiled cord. In my personal opinion this is about as long as a coiled cord should go, and even in this length using it is dicey except in the hands of a very experienced professional. We usually supply the K-202CC for wireless boom use, where the transmitter plugs directly into the base of the pole. If you need a ling pole with internal coiled cord it is better to consider the K-202CCR. This has the XLR on the side, so you can still rest the pole on the ground between takes.....

We usually recommend the K202FT in this length. This has a straight cable inside the pole suspended in the center of the smallest section, which flows out the bottom. This allows the boom operator to tension the cable as required .... much more control and considerably less weight..... (Coiled cord is heavy)

I hope this helps,

Manfred Klemme

Ashley Cooper · February 21st, 2006, 04:58 PM

Rob, I had heard the same thing actually aboiut the need to extend internally cabled booms to their max. This is one of the reason why I made the trip to Trew. But the K-Tek didn't seem to have a problem even when it was at its minimum length. Actually, I don't hear the cable sound in the VDB when it's at its minimun length, but I do have a problem with it once I start extending it. Could be b/c the cable is all bunch together at the minimum length.
Manfred, thanks for the info. 17' is actually a bit longer than I thought I needed, but it was just the only internally cabled boom that Trew had available at the time. I was looking for something closer to 12' and bought the VDB b/c it had much less noise than the K-Tek as far as finger movements go. But, it seems like the VBD has much more of a problem with the internal cord noise than the K-Tek, if the 12' K-Tek performs similarly to its 17' brother.
So, is there a 12' model you would recommend?

Ashley Cooper · February 22nd, 2006, 04:00 AM

Okay, Mr. Klemme, I guess I should have done a little research first. I was very impressed my your company's pole's ability to deal with the internal cable, but I had problems with my finger movements as I mentioned. Other than wearing gloves, do you have any ideas how to solve this problem?
I'm starting to wonder now if my boom technique is bad or if internal cables just aren't suited for what I need to do. I called Trew after my last post and spoke with a different salesman. He said that no boompole is completely silent and that he found film crews tend to prefer external cables whereas news crews prefer internal cables. They’re happy to take the return of the VDB or exchange it, so I was wondering if I should try a different brand, or if internal cables really won’t work for what I’m trying to do. Or am I just doing it wrong?
Any thoughts or opinions are greatly appreciated and thanks ahead of time for any help!

Manfred Klemme · February 22nd, 2006, 01:16 PM

Ashley .... I have never been called Mr. Klemme since I taught photography many many years ago.... Manfred is what I usually answer too.....

Our poles all react the same with the internal coiled cable. We have it made right here in southern California to our specifications. In the hands of an experienced boom operator, the coiled cord is quite manageable even if not fully extended. I recommend that less experienced operators use the pole fully extended to insure that the cable is at its tightest inside. I quess I made the case too strongly, as now it is assumed that the pole MUST be at full extension. For the record: aluminum poles are more susceptable to cable noise than graphite.

Our graphite poles are hand burnished to minimize handling noise. Noiseless operation requires proper technique. When learned, you will love the feel of a professional pole.

Our K-152 poles are, in my opinion, the ideal size to choose if you can only have one pole. If you want the internal coiled cord, choose the K-152CCR. The right angle will be well worth the small extra cost in the long run. If you prefer the internal straight cable, choose the K-152FTS. This is the most versatile and easy to handle pole in the fleet.

The TV news folk prefer our K-102CC, as it is easier to swing in a crowd and schlep around. They don't need the length as they never do wide shots. If the pole gets in the frame it makes the shot look better anyway!!!!

Manfred

Ashley Cooper · February 22nd, 2006, 06:48 PM

Sorry, Manfred it is. Thank you again for taking the time here. When you say,

"Noiseless operation requires proper technique. When learned, you will love the feel of a professional pole."

it definitely leads me to believe I've been doing something wrong. I try to be smooth and carefull, but it's hard to do that and be active with the boom as well. Is there anything you can tell me that I've been doing that has caused this problem? Is twisting from 4:00 to 8:00 a bad idea?
Also, someone else told me that the shockmount made the most difference in muting handling noise. So, would a good shock help eliminate the problem I've been having?
Thanks again for the help!

Ty Ford · February 22nd, 2006, 09:37 PM

I have been very happy with my 16 foot Ktek carbon fiber pole. I use an external cable and a variety of wraps.

I normally use the rubber can from a Rycote handgrip as a suspension mount. I normally use a Schoeps cmc641. I do have to take care when handling the boom, butt it is not a deal killer by any means. Perhaps you expected too much.

What mic and suspension mount do you have?

Ty Ford

Ashley Cooper · February 23rd, 2006, 04:57 AM

Ty, thanks for the input! Just wondering, why do you choose to go external? Also, is that the standard suspension mount that comes with rycote systems and does it dampen out the handling sounds that have me so worried?
For myself, I have an ME66 and I have access to an Audio Technica AT 8415 and an AT 8410a, but the 8415 has had its original bands replaced by ordinary rubber bands. Testing them a bit I think I still hear some handling noise, but it's not a thorough test. So I'm wondering if a better shock would help with the handling noise.
Any thoughts?

Ty Ford · February 23rd, 2006, 07:26 AM

Ever see a telephone coil cord with no kinks in it? I haven't.

Handling a boom properly requires a very sensitive touch. I use the suspension mount from the pistol grip. That works for me. I don't know if it would work for you or not.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Manfred Klemme · February 24th, 2006, 12:51 PM

Ashley....

The AT suspension you have is very good ... But .... with the bands replaced with rubber bands "who knows?"

Have the guys at TREW give you a set of our K-SUS suspenders. Put those into the AT suspension and you have a very good system. Tell the guys at Trew that I will replace the K-SUS to them at no charge.....

Manfred

Ashley Cooper · February 27th, 2006, 05:11 PM

Sorry for the delay, Trew gave me a some more time and I had project that was due today. But thank you SO much, Manfred!!! That's so cool!! I called Trew today and they're going to send them out asap.
Again, I really appreciate it and all the time and help you've given me!

February 21st, 2006, 03:03 AM	#1
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Please help- Emergency Boompole help needed! Sorry for the urgent title, but I bought a boom pole from Trew Audio and have until tomorrow to tell them if I want to return it. Anyway, I made a special trip hours out of my way to visit the Trew audio store in Nashville, the main goal of which was to pick out a new boom pole. Unfortunately I got there later than I had planned (Nashville traffic sucks) and they didn’t have everything in stock, so it wasn’t a perfect test. Anyway, I had never used an internally cabled boom, so the salesman had me check out a K-Tek K-202CC internally cabled carbon fiber boom pole. Either extended fully to 16’ or compressed to nearly its 3’ limit, the internal cable didn’t seem to make any appreciable noise for normal boom movements. The only time I heard the cable was when I intentionally rattled the boom to try to hear the cable inside and I doubt this will come up in any field situation. So, I concluded that internal cabling was a good idea. I then compared the K-Tek to a VDB and a PSP boom for the kind of handling noise that comes from finger movements and hand readjustments. Trying them a few ways, including holding them like pool cues, I found the VDB muted the handling by a significant margin better than the other two and the K-Tek seemed to be the loudest. I’ve always thought this was something that wasn’t made enough of when it comes to boompoles. There were no internally cabled VDB or PSP booms to check out, but the salesman assured me that they would behave just as the K-Tek with regard to the internal cable’s noise. So I bought the large (12’8”) VDB pole, which seemed nice as it was the cheapest option of the 3 brands. The VDB pole arrived on Friday and testing it here, I find it much more susceptible to the cord noise that the K-Tek seemed to handle so well (I’m also having a hard time compressing it back to it’s smallest size, but that’s a different issue). For example, I hear the cord rattle when I twist the pole from an 8:00 position to a 4:00 position, and this is something I need to do quite often. So, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with any of these brands (or one not mentioned) and can comment on this cord noise. Are there brands that just deal with this better? Is VDB just not as good as the other brands? Really, any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time for any help!

February 22nd, 2006, 09:37 PM	#8
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	I have been very happy with my 16 foot Ktek carbon fiber pole. I use an external cable and a variety of wraps. I normally use the rubber can from a Rycote handgrip as a suspension mount. I normally use a Schoeps cmc641. I do have to take care when handling the boom, butt it is not a deal killer by any means. Perhaps you expected too much. What mic and suspension mount do you have? Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

February 23rd, 2006, 07:26 AM	#10
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Ever see a telephone coil cord with no kinks in it? I haven't. Handling a boom properly requires a very sensitive touch. I use the suspension mount from the pistol grip. That works for me. I don't know if it would work for you or not. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

February 21st, 2006, 08:56 AM	#2
Rob Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 473	Ashley, I've not used a internal cable boom pole but have heard that they should be extended to maximum length to minimize cable noise. Guessing that when the cable is somewhat taught, it rolls around less.

February 21st, 2006, 02:30 PM	#3
Manfred Klemme New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Location: Vista, California Posts: 10	Hi.... The K-202 pole is nearly 17 ft long. In the K-202CC configuration it has an internal coiled cord. In my personal opinion this is about as long as a coiled cord should go, and even in this length using it is dicey except in the hands of a very experienced professional. We usually supply the K-202CC for wireless boom use, where the transmitter plugs directly into the base of the pole. If you need a ling pole with internal coiled cord it is better to consider the K-202CCR. This has the XLR on the side, so you can still rest the pole on the ground between takes..... We usually recommend the K202FT in this length. This has a straight cable inside the pole suspended in the center of the smallest section, which flows out the bottom. This allows the boom operator to tension the cable as required .... much more control and considerably less weight..... (Coiled cord is heavy) I hope this helps, Manfred Klemme

February 21st, 2006, 04:58 PM	#4
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Rob, I had heard the same thing actually aboiut the need to extend internally cabled booms to their max. This is one of the reason why I made the trip to Trew. But the K-Tek didn't seem to have a problem even when it was at its minimum length. Actually, I don't hear the cable sound in the VDB when it's at its minimun length, but I do have a problem with it once I start extending it. Could be b/c the cable is all bunch together at the minimum length. Manfred, thanks for the info. 17' is actually a bit longer than I thought I needed, but it was just the only internally cabled boom that Trew had available at the time. I was looking for something closer to 12' and bought the VDB b/c it had much less noise than the K-Tek as far as finger movements go. But, it seems like the VBD has much more of a problem with the internal cord noise than the K-Tek, if the 12' K-Tek performs similarly to its 17' brother. So, is there a 12' model you would recommend?

February 22nd, 2006, 04:00 AM	#5
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Okay, Mr. Klemme, I guess I should have done a little research first. I was very impressed my your company's pole's ability to deal with the internal cable, but I had problems with my finger movements as I mentioned. Other than wearing gloves, do you have any ideas how to solve this problem? I'm starting to wonder now if my boom technique is bad or if internal cables just aren't suited for what I need to do. I called Trew after my last post and spoke with a different salesman. He said that no boompole is completely silent and that he found film crews tend to prefer external cables whereas news crews prefer internal cables. They’re happy to take the return of the VDB or exchange it, so I was wondering if I should try a different brand, or if internal cables really won’t work for what I’m trying to do. Or am I just doing it wrong? Any thoughts or opinions are greatly appreciated and thanks ahead of time for any help!

February 22nd, 2006, 01:16 PM	#6
Manfred Klemme New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Location: Vista, California Posts: 10	Ashley .... I have never been called Mr. Klemme since I taught photography many many years ago.... Manfred is what I usually answer too..... Our poles all react the same with the internal coiled cable. We have it made right here in southern California to our specifications. In the hands of an experienced boom operator, the coiled cord is quite manageable even if not fully extended. I recommend that less experienced operators use the pole fully extended to insure that the cable is at its tightest inside. I quess I made the case too strongly, as now it is assumed that the pole MUST be at full extension. For the record: aluminum poles are more susceptable to cable noise than graphite. Our graphite poles are hand burnished to minimize handling noise. Noiseless operation requires proper technique. When learned, you will love the feel of a professional pole. Our K-152 poles are, in my opinion, the ideal size to choose if you can only have one pole. If you want the internal coiled cord, choose the K-152CCR. The right angle will be well worth the small extra cost in the long run. If you prefer the internal straight cable, choose the K-152FTS. This is the most versatile and easy to handle pole in the fleet. The TV news folk prefer our K-102CC, as it is easier to swing in a crowd and schlep around. They don't need the length as they never do wide shots. If the pole gets in the frame it makes the shot look better anyway!!!! Manfred

February 22nd, 2006, 06:48 PM	#7
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Sorry, Manfred it is. Thank you again for taking the time here. When you say, "Noiseless operation requires proper technique. When learned, you will love the feel of a professional pole." it definitely leads me to believe I've been doing something wrong. I try to be smooth and carefull, but it's hard to do that and be active with the boom as well. Is there anything you can tell me that I've been doing that has caused this problem? Is twisting from 4:00 to 8:00 a bad idea? Also, someone else told me that the shockmount made the most difference in muting handling noise. So, would a good shock help eliminate the problem I've been having? Thanks again for the help!

February 23rd, 2006, 04:57 AM	#9
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Ty, thanks for the input! Just wondering, why do you choose to go external? Also, is that the standard suspension mount that comes with rycote systems and does it dampen out the handling sounds that have me so worried? For myself, I have an ME66 and I have access to an Audio Technica AT 8415 and an AT 8410a, but the 8415 has had its original bands replaced by ordinary rubber bands. Testing them a bit I think I still hear some handling noise, but it's not a thorough test. So I'm wondering if a better shock would help with the handling noise. Any thoughts?

February 24th, 2006, 12:51 PM	#11
Manfred Klemme New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Location: Vista, California Posts: 10	Ashley.... The AT suspension you have is very good ... But .... with the bands replaced with rubber bands "who knows?" Have the guys at TREW give you a set of our K-SUS suspenders. Put those into the AT suspension and you have a very good system. Tell the guys at Trew that I will replace the K-SUS to them at no charge..... Manfred

February 27th, 2006, 05:11 PM	#12
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Sorry for the delay, Trew gave me a some more time and I had project that was due today. But thank you SO much, Manfred!!! That's so cool!! I called Trew today and they're going to send them out asap. Again, I really appreciate it and all the time and help you've given me!