Fellas I'm terrified of the audio side of things at DVinfo.net

John Strickland · February 18th, 2006, 09:11 PM

I am more than proficient with the video side of the equation but the audio is giving me nightmares.

I purchased a Shure handheld wireless mic setup from Musicians Friend. Yet to get a good usable signal to go through my little 12 channel mixer you have to have every single volume control maxed out, including the gain. This is not how it should be. I've read and read and read books and webpages and forums and anything I can get my hands on but I honestly don't feel comfortable with the audio unless it's a mic hooked to the camera I'm using.

This was a very highly rated mic setup so I know it's good quality, it's just something I don't know.

Give me an NLE and really bad quality video and I can give you gold.
Give me a highly rated, slightly expensive audio setup and I can give you pea gravel.

Glenn Davidson · February 18th, 2006, 09:23 PM

Which Shure do you have? Are you switched to line-out on the output of the receiver? Also, my shure UC lav pac Transmitter has a attenuator swicth in the battery compartment, make 'Shure' is is at 0db.

John Strickland · February 18th, 2006, 09:50 PM

Yes there's a gain on the handheld mic that you can adjust with the little screwdriver that came with it, but something I did notice on the receiver is that there is no line or mic switch.

I got the Shure TV58D on the musicians friend website if you care to look it up

Thanks

Glenn Davidson · February 18th, 2006, 11:10 PM

Looks like the unit only has mic level outputs. Use a mic input on mixer. If you are already doing that, then problem is either impedance mismatch or defective unit. Good Luck.

John Strickland · February 19th, 2006, 07:52 AM

No, it's got both XLR and 1/4 outputs on it. But both seem to work the same way.

Glenn Davidson · February 19th, 2006, 12:29 PM

Both outputs on receiver are mic level. Unbalanced is 3k ohms ,Balanced is 150 ohms. What mixer are you using? You are going into a mic input and not a line input on mixer right?

John Strickland · February 19th, 2006, 02:48 PM

Correct it's an XLR input on a Behringer Eurorack UB1204FX-Pro

I have the RCA outs of the mixer running into an 1/8 plug on my comps sound card.

For on site recording it will be running from the mixer through RCA cables to RCA inputs on a Soundblaster Video Editor box running through USB to a laptop.

John Strickland · February 19th, 2006, 08:53 PM

Would the quality of the preamps on this mixer affect how loud the signal comes through? Perhaps if I bought a different mixer this would help my problems?

Any recommendations?

Steve House · February 20th, 2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Strickland

Would the quality of the preamps on this mixer affect how loud the signal comes through? Perhaps if I bought a different mixer this would help my problems?

Any recommendations?

Start at the mic and work your way down the chain. Battery fresh? Transmitter gain control adjusted so the red light on the receiver flickers on very loud sounds? Receiver output volume control all the way up to max clockwise? XLR out of the receiver plugged into XLR input on the mixer? Mixer equalizer knobs in centre "0" point? Input gain on mixer turned up until peak light flickers then down a hair? Plug headphones into the mixer, set mixer input strip fader up to line up the mark on the knob with "0" on the scale (almost to top), pan to centre, headphone control to centre scale. Input strip solo switch on. Normal sounding levels in the headphones? Main mode switch down. Left output meter showing normal levels? Input strip solo switch off. Main mode switch up. Master output level to line up mark to "0" pn scale. Normal levels on output meters? Tape outputs on mixer to 1/8 stereo plug on soundcard? Plugged into line input, not accidently in the headphone or speaker jack? Recording input gain on the control panel mixer all the way up? Switch your headphones to computer headphone out. Run up the mixer master output to also line up with the "0" mark on its scale and you should get normal levels on your headset.

Sean McHenry · February 20th, 2006, 09:05 AM

Try this too. How is the level in the headphones when plugged into the mixer? If this is OK, try running the output of the mixer to a stereo system. Can you hear the mixer output without excessive volume on the stereo. Does the mixers metering show correctly?

If no to either of these, suspect the mixer. Possibly the output amps on the mixer have died. Not likely both left and right died but possible.

If these tests are OK, next is the PC soundcard input. PC levels are VERY tricky. You need to check the following:
Double click the speaker icon (lower right on the task bar). This will open the computers internal mixer application. Under "Options", "Properties", make sure you select the checkbox for Recording. Look at the levels and play with the input levels while making noise or running a sound source into the mixer. This is a major cause of audio record issues for folks starting out.

If none of this works, or if you have a specailty mixer application or strange audio software loaded, all bets are off.

I found my internal sound card was way too noisy for recording. You could actually hear the mose movements in the audio, etc. I gave up and bought an all digitla in/out box from M-Audio. Mine is the Mobile-pre. Find it here:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...eUSB-main.html

There is also a less expensive version called the Transit. Find it here:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html

These units plug into your USB connection on your PC. Audio is converted to digital outside the PC. By the time it gets into your PC, it's digital and not suceptible to analog noises in your PC. As a great added benefit, you can use these with a laptop for field or club recording.

The mobile Pre works like a sound card when plugged in, has XLR and 1/4" inputs and phantom power and monitoring.

By the way, I also tried PCI based recording cards. Still has noise issues with my PC. The Mobile-Pre is silent.

Good luck,

Sean McHenry

John Strickland · February 20th, 2006, 06:28 PM

Being as it takes a little while to setup eveything to try it out I can't really try your tips just yet, but as for the M-audio interface that's basically what I have just no XLR or 1/4 inputs or outputs and it has video in's and outs as well as audio.

I'm more than willing to try your box instead of mine because I already have the Audigy2Zs actual pci card in my desktop comp....I just bought the video editor for the video capture side of things and it's USB hub abilities.

I intend to use my laptop and an external hard drive for audio recording at all weddings I go to so getting this setup and working correctly is a bigtime priority. The first wedding is April 8th.

And by the way ....you don't have to be very basic on the computer instructions with me guys....Comps and video stuff I know very well. It's just the audio that I've not had a successful use yet and so I feel uneasy with it.

February 18th, 2006, 09:11 PM	#1
John Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 37	Fellas I'm terrified of the audio side of things I am more than proficient with the video side of the equation but the audio is giving me nightmares. I purchased a Shure handheld wireless mic setup from Musicians Friend. Yet to get a good usable signal to go through my little 12 channel mixer you have to have every single volume control maxed out, including the gain. This is not how it should be. I've read and read and read books and webpages and forums and anything I can get my hands on but I honestly don't feel comfortable with the audio unless it's a mic hooked to the camera I'm using. This was a very highly rated mic setup so I know it's good quality, it's just something I don't know. Give me an NLE and really bad quality video and I can give you gold. Give me a highly rated, slightly expensive audio setup and I can give you pea gravel.

February 20th, 2006, 09:05 AM	#10
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	Try this too. How is the level in the headphones when plugged into the mixer? If this is OK, try running the output of the mixer to a stereo system. Can you hear the mixer output without excessive volume on the stereo. Does the mixers metering show correctly? If no to either of these, suspect the mixer. Possibly the output amps on the mixer have died. Not likely both left and right died but possible. If these tests are OK, next is the PC soundcard input. PC levels are VERY tricky. You need to check the following: Double click the speaker icon (lower right on the task bar). This will open the computers internal mixer application. Under "Options", "Properties", make sure you select the checkbox for Recording. Look at the levels and play with the input levels while making noise or running a sound source into the mixer. This is a major cause of audio record issues for folks starting out. If none of this works, or if you have a specailty mixer application or strange audio software loaded, all bets are off. I found my internal sound card was way too noisy for recording. You could actually hear the mose movements in the audio, etc. I gave up and bought an all digitla in/out box from M-Audio. Mine is the Mobile-pre. Find it here: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...eUSB-main.html There is also a less expensive version called the Transit. Find it here: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html These units plug into your USB connection on your PC. Audio is converted to digital outside the PC. By the time it gets into your PC, it's digital and not suceptible to analog noises in your PC. As a great added benefit, you can use these with a laptop for field or club recording. The mobile Pre works like a sound card when plugged in, has XLR and 1/4" inputs and phantom power and monitoring. By the way, I also tried PCI based recording cards. Still has noise issues with my PC. The Mobile-Pre is silent. Good luck, Sean McHenry __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com

February 18th, 2006, 09:23 PM	#2
Glenn Davidson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nevada City, California Posts: 499	Which Shure do you have? Are you switched to line-out on the output of the receiver? Also, my shure UC lav pac Transmitter has a attenuator swicth in the battery compartment, make 'Shure' is is at 0db.

February 18th, 2006, 09:50 PM	#3
John Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 37	Yes there's a gain on the handheld mic that you can adjust with the little screwdriver that came with it, but something I did notice on the receiver is that there is no line or mic switch. I got the Shure TV58D on the musicians friend website if you care to look it up Thanks

February 18th, 2006, 11:10 PM	#4
Glenn Davidson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nevada City, California Posts: 499	Looks like the unit only has mic level outputs. Use a mic input on mixer. If you are already doing that, then problem is either impedance mismatch or defective unit. Good Luck.

February 19th, 2006, 07:52 AM	#5
John Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 37	No, it's got both XLR and 1/4 outputs on it. But both seem to work the same way.

February 19th, 2006, 12:29 PM	#6
Glenn Davidson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nevada City, California Posts: 499	Both outputs on receiver are mic level. Unbalanced is 3k ohms ,Balanced is 150 ohms. What mixer are you using? You are going into a mic input and not a line input on mixer right?

February 19th, 2006, 02:48 PM	#7
John Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 37	Correct it's an XLR input on a Behringer Eurorack UB1204FX-Pro I have the RCA outs of the mixer running into an 1/8 plug on my comps sound card. For on site recording it will be running from the mixer through RCA cables to RCA inputs on a Soundblaster Video Editor box running through USB to a laptop.

February 19th, 2006, 08:53 PM	#8
John Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 37	Would the quality of the preamps on this mixer affect how loud the signal comes through? Perhaps if I bought a different mixer this would help my problems? Any recommendations?

February 20th, 2006, 06:28 PM	#11
John Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 37	Being as it takes a little while to setup eveything to try it out I can't really try your tips just yet, but as for the M-audio interface that's basically what I have just no XLR or 1/4 inputs or outputs and it has video in's and outs as well as audio. I'm more than willing to try your box instead of mine because I already have the Audigy2Zs actual pci card in my desktop comp....I just bought the video editor for the video capture side of things and it's USB hub abilities. I intend to use my laptop and an external hard drive for audio recording at all weddings I go to so getting this setup and working correctly is a bigtime priority. The first wedding is April 8th. And by the way ....you don't have to be very basic on the computer instructions with me guys....Comps and video stuff I know very well. It's just the audio that I've not had a successful use yet and so I feel uneasy with it.