All Things Audio -- topics from 2002 thru 2004

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 30th, 2004, 01:37 PM

Stinkin' spaces! Sorry. Link is fixed now. Thanks for the heads up.
www.vasst.com/mailers/sonyblast.htm

Mike Rehmus · April 30th, 2004, 03:39 PM

Does anyone have a schematic or plans for modifying a Sennheiser Evolution 100
transmitter's input to roll of low frequencies. I am trying to combat the
"motorboating" that occurs when using a Countryman in an automobile.

thanks in advance!
Hi Gerry, I had exactly this problem 15 years ago when I bought 3 x
Sennheiser 2012 radio mike systems.

Small, great design but being German the response was flat from 20Hz
to whatever
and when they were used in a car or on a boat the low frequencies
would drive the compansion system (only one compansion system) into
chaos.

I experimented with an active hi-pass filter round the mic channel but
it
tended to be unstable so I then reduced the input capacitor from 10uF
down
to something like 0.18uF and it changed the performance like a dream.

I suggest you look into such a modification.

Just goes to show that often the guys that design this stuff never put
it to the test like you and I!!!!

Kind regards

Mike

The Sennheiser Evo system does not use a rolloff in the audio path like the
3000/5000 series. In the 3k/5k there is a 24db/octave rolloff at about 80Hz to
allow for transmission of battery information.

In order to design a rolloff filter that will be effective if one uses just a
cap, that is good for 6db/octave. OK, but you'd have to set the knee at about
250Hz to have an effect at the 80Hz you need. Your overall result is very thin
sounding audio. So we need to more components in a different place in the
circuit to get a steeper slope at a lower frequency to do what you want.

I have Sennheiser schematics and I'll do some investigating but at this point,
to cure this electronically inside the transmitter will be expensive and
non-reversible. Better to use a cheap Radio Shack lavalier that has no low end.
--
Regards,

Klay Anderson
http://www.klay.com
Hi Brad,
Your proposed capacitor between the mic leads would roll off the highs
which is the opposite of what you want to do. Replacing the DC
blocking cap that is in series with their input should work. The cap
is C101 and is a 0.22uF capacitor. I would replace it with a 0.047
cap. That would move the first pole from 40 Hz to 160 Hz. The roll
off will be gentle and even though 160 Hz roll off sounds brutal, it
actually won't sound bad on voice.
Disclaimer: This ain't our product and the unit we have may be out of
date. If a Sennheiser expert or someone with actual experience makes a
better suggestion, take it.
Larry F
Lectro
Hi Klay,
Looking at an Evolution we have here, there looks like an 18 dB per
octave roll off formed by C101, C102, and C104. Doing a Spice
simulation, the front end -3 dB point is 30 Hz with a rapid falloff
below that. Using the value of capacitor that I recommended earlier,
the -3 dB point is moved to 95 Hz at 6 dB per octave if the electret
impedance is very high. For real world mics the roll off is probably
at 120 Hz. Again, I would try the 0.047 uF capacitor in place of C101
and see if that is enough roll off. If not, try a 0.022u to roll off
at 160 Hz.

A better way to form the filter is to replace all three capacitors
with 0.1u and thus have a rapid roll off below 65 Hz. This is a pretty
good place to roll off in general and you could just leave the mod in
permanently. IMHO, that is a better universal roll off and is what we
have done for years on units that don't have roll off controls.
Previous posted comments about sticking my nose in, still apply.

Best Regards,
Larry F
Lectro
Hi Brad,
Your proposed capacitor between the mic leads would roll off the highs
which is the opposite of what you want to do. Replacing the DC
blocking cap that is in series with their input should work. The cap
is C101 and is a 0.22uF capacitor. I would replace it with a 0.047
cap. That would move the first pole from 40 Hz to 160 Hz. The roll
off will be gentle and even though 160 Hz roll off sounds brutal, it
actually won't sound bad on voice.
Disclaimer: This ain't our product and the unit we have may be out of
date. If a Sennheiser expert or someone with actual experience makes a
better suggestion, take it.
Larry F
Lectro

(Lectro as in Lectrosonics)

This USENET group is rec.arts.music.production.sound.
If you ever read the USENET groups, this is a good and very high-end discussion about sound. They frequently discuss gear that costs more than my entire sound outfit.

Bryan Beasleigh · April 30th, 2004, 05:13 PM

The best way is to google them. Rec.Art.s.Movies.Prod.Sound is the best followed by Rec.Audio.Pro The information contained in 4 to 5 years of posting from some very big names in the industry is absolutely phenominal.

Regular posters include John Coffey, Glen Trew, Jeff Wexler (mixer of last Samuria), Jay Rose, Ty Ford and many many more. Marty Atias and Oleg Kaizerman who are members herem, are long time contributors to RAMPS and RAP.

Use the links below. Try typing in "boom mic" , "hypercardoid" or "shotgun", and wind up with several days reading. You couldn't buy an encyclopedia this complete. These people know their stuff

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.arts.movies.production.sound

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=search+any+topic&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Drec.audio.pro

Corey Sturmer · May 2nd, 2004, 08:35 PM

I'm looking to buy two sets of wireless microphones. Right now I am using Samson's cheapest set of wireless, but they don't have channel knobs, so I can only use one at a time, which is a pain. I'd like something that will let me use two mics at once, and is sub 300 dollars a set. Thanks.

Dan Brown · May 2nd, 2004, 08:56 PM

AKG PT40 & PR40 are right at $300 a set, work very, very well, and come in about 6 different freqs, in the 800 MHz range. Diversity receive too. I love mine.

Andrew Shrigley · May 3rd, 2004, 10:48 PM

How would I go about getting good sound recording a live band (in a bar) with a VX2100?

Bryan Beasleigh · May 3rd, 2004, 11:20 PM

What do you have to work with, do you have any other gear than just the camera?

Good is subjective, it depends on what your standards are, it would also help to know what you'd use the footage for. Most importantly , what is your budget.

Read a few pages of posts here in the audio forum, to get a feel for the site and then give us more to work with.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 4th, 2004, 10:11 AM

Hey Gang,
We keep getting lots of emails about the VASST tours, wanted to post updates to maybe save our office manager from replying to so many:
We've got the Ulead VASST tour with Mike Downey and Jeffrey P. Fisher, details at http://www.vasst.com/touragenda/uleadcertagenda.htm
Gary Kleiner and I will be the instructors on this tour, tag-teaming various functions and segments through the day.
With Gary on the tour, we'll be giving away a copy of Excalibur and Neon at each city, plus everyone gets some fun goodies in their attendee bags from Gary.
We'll also have great products from Artbeats, Sony, VASST, and other fun things in the attendee bags. We'll have giveaways from Sony, ADS, Artbeats, VASST, and other manufacturers.
There is a FREE Sony event the night before each full day training event in each city, where we'll be showcasing Vegas, ACID, Sound Forge, and Noise Reduction, you can register for this FREE event on the VASST website, http://www.vasst.com/registration
I think I speak for Gary as well in saying we're looking forward to getting out there and meeting you all, spending time in your city, and getting to know some of you directly.
Audio is a featured section in the day as well.
See you on the tour!!
See full tour details at
http://www.vasst.com/touragenda/vegas5agenda.htm

Matt Norwood · May 6th, 2004, 04:02 PM

Hi everyone,

I am looking into getting a MIPro MR-801 wireless system. I haven't seen any opinions on this set, and only one review of any MIPro system.

Anyone used this set or other MIPro products?

Marco Mezzalana · May 7th, 2004, 03:43 AM

Mi search still continue...In italy there are no way to purchase what you want without driving for hundreds ok km. So I decide to order mi mic by internet but... I can't test it with my camera and I have to trust you...so please help me. I would a good mic for my mx500 camera, the sound of the onboard one sometimes it's no clear...
The 2 most named in this forum are:

Apex 191, but it require an xlr adaptor and an hotshoe adaptor

Ezden ECZ-990

Frank gave me his impression about the first one, now I want to know about the ezden, and of course if someone test it with a mx500...

thanks Marco

Marcia Janine Galles · May 7th, 2004, 11:57 AM

Hey Douglas, the scoop on the web site sounds awesome! Am all signed up and am looking forward to meeting you in LA.

Marcia

Paul Chun · May 10th, 2004, 09:32 PM

For general run & gun type video and just a basic replacement for the PD170 mic, is the ME64 a good replacement? I already have a ME66 but want something not so directional for general purpose use. Will the ME64 fit the bill? If not, what Sennheiser can I use that is a basic replacement for the PD170 mic? I want to be able to use my K6 module I already have.

Joseph Lawrence · May 11th, 2004, 07:16 AM

Rather than hijack the thread "building mood with music for dramatic video" (which is relevant and highly recommended) I chose to ask my question separately.

I cheaped-out and bought the ACID Music (Screenblaster) which by various reviews has most of the music creation features of the full ACID Pro. The collection of loops bundled with ACID Music is too heavily hip-hop and techno for my preferences. I would like recommendations from users. Which loop CD collections are the most useful for scoring documentary genre videos? If you could choose any five CDs to score your videos, what would you choose? I found a good deal on loop collections through efolletts.com (an academic discounter) and I'd like input from users so that I buy effectively.

Joseph

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 11th, 2004, 07:21 AM

Which 5 only?....damn, that's hard.

Any of the Orchestral series.
Any/All of the Bill Laswell libes
Numina
Junkyard Rhythms
American Piano

Are my forced 5 picks. But that's a really tough one.
Any of the Hark Production libraries are great too, but they're not Sony-distributed. I think it's http://www.harkproductions.com and tell Kevin I sent you.

We'll be giving away a bunch of free loop libes on the VASST ACID and VASST Vegas tour, starting in Denver next week.

http://www.vasst.com/training_tours.htm

Jay Massengill · May 11th, 2004, 07:43 AM

The 64 is really your only option if you want a less directional mic for general purpose use with your K6.
The 62 is omnidirectional.
The 65 is designed to be a handheld hypercardioid.

Two other mics that might be useful in this situation are the AT3031 cardioid and the AT873r hypercardioid. Each is in the $170 ballpark for the complete mic. They are both phantom only, so if you were also planning on using the mic separately from your camera this might not work out.
If your PD170 mic input is noisy and benefits from a very hot mic, these mics aren't as sensitive as the 64. However they generally work better in loud environments like live music or indoor sports.
They would have the added benefit of being a complete mic, you could still use your K6/ME66 simultaneously.

With any of these choices, you need a good mini-furry windscreen for outdoor use under run and gun conditions. Don't forget to factor that into your cost.

April 30th, 2004, 01:37 PM	#286
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Stinkin' spaces! Sorry. Link is fixed now. Thanks for the heads up. www.vasst.com/mailers/sonyblast.htm __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 30th, 2004, 03:39 PM	#287
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Sennheiser wireless info from a USENET group Does anyone have a schematic or plans for modifying a Sennheiser Evolution 100 transmitter's input to roll of low frequencies. I am trying to combat the "motorboating" that occurs when using a Countryman in an automobile. thanks in advance! Hi Gerry, I had exactly this problem 15 years ago when I bought 3 x Sennheiser 2012 radio mike systems. Small, great design but being German the response was flat from 20Hz to whatever and when they were used in a car or on a boat the low frequencies would drive the compansion system (only one compansion system) into chaos. I experimented with an active hi-pass filter round the mic channel but it tended to be unstable so I then reduced the input capacitor from 10uF down to something like 0.18uF and it changed the performance like a dream. I suggest you look into such a modification. Just goes to show that often the guys that design this stuff never put it to the test like you and I!!!! Kind regards Mike The Sennheiser Evo system does not use a rolloff in the audio path like the 3000/5000 series. In the 3k/5k there is a 24db/octave rolloff at about 80Hz to allow for transmission of battery information. In order to design a rolloff filter that will be effective if one uses just a cap, that is good for 6db/octave. OK, but you'd have to set the knee at about 250Hz to have an effect at the 80Hz you need. Your overall result is very thin sounding audio. So we need to more components in a different place in the circuit to get a steeper slope at a lower frequency to do what you want. I have Sennheiser schematics and I'll do some investigating but at this point, to cure this electronically inside the transmitter will be expensive and non-reversible. Better to use a cheap Radio Shack lavalier that has no low end. -- Regards, Klay Anderson http://www.klay.com Hi Brad, Your proposed capacitor between the mic leads would roll off the highs which is the opposite of what you want to do. Replacing the DC blocking cap that is in series with their input should work. The cap is C101 and is a 0.22uF capacitor. I would replace it with a 0.047 cap. That would move the first pole from 40 Hz to 160 Hz. The roll off will be gentle and even though 160 Hz roll off sounds brutal, it actually won't sound bad on voice. Disclaimer: This ain't our product and the unit we have may be out of date. If a Sennheiser expert or someone with actual experience makes a better suggestion, take it. Larry F Lectro Hi Klay, Looking at an Evolution we have here, there looks like an 18 dB per octave roll off formed by C101, C102, and C104. Doing a Spice simulation, the front end -3 dB point is 30 Hz with a rapid falloff below that. Using the value of capacitor that I recommended earlier, the -3 dB point is moved to 95 Hz at 6 dB per octave if the electret impedance is very high. For real world mics the roll off is probably at 120 Hz. Again, I would try the 0.047 uF capacitor in place of C101 and see if that is enough roll off. If not, try a 0.022u to roll off at 160 Hz. A better way to form the filter is to replace all three capacitors with 0.1u and thus have a rapid roll off below 65 Hz. This is a pretty good place to roll off in general and you could just leave the mod in permanently. IMHO, that is a better universal roll off and is what we have done for years on units that don't have roll off controls. Previous posted comments about sticking my nose in, still apply. Best Regards, Larry F Lectro Hi Brad, Your proposed capacitor between the mic leads would roll off the highs which is the opposite of what you want to do. Replacing the DC blocking cap that is in series with their input should work. The cap is C101 and is a 0.22uF capacitor. I would replace it with a 0.047 cap. That would move the first pole from 40 Hz to 160 Hz. The roll off will be gentle and even though 160 Hz roll off sounds brutal, it actually won't sound bad on voice. Disclaimer: This ain't our product and the unit we have may be out of date. If a Sennheiser expert or someone with actual experience makes a better suggestion, take it. Larry F Lectro (Lectro as in Lectrosonics) This USENET group is rec.arts.music.production.sound. If you ever read the USENET groups, this is a good and very high-end discussion about sound. They frequently discuss gear that costs more than my entire sound outfit. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

April 30th, 2004, 05:13 PM	#288
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Therre are two groups RAMPS and RAP The best way is to google them. Rec.Art.s.Movies.Prod.Sound is the best followed by Rec.Audio.Pro The information contained in 4 to 5 years of posting from some very big names in the industry is absolutely phenominal. Regular posters include John Coffey, Glen Trew, Jeff Wexler (mixer of last Samuria), Jay Rose, Ty Ford and many many more. Marty Atias and Oleg Kaizerman who are members herem, are long time contributors to RAMPS and RAP. Use the links below. Try typing in "boom mic" , "hypercardoid" or "shotgun", and wind up with several days reading. You couldn't buy an encyclopedia this complete. These people know their stuff http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.arts.movies.production.sound http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=search+any+topic&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Drec.audio.pro __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 2nd, 2004, 08:35 PM	#289
Corey Sturmer Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 144	Wireless I'm looking to buy two sets of wireless microphones. Right now I am using Samson's cheapest set of wireless, but they don't have channel knobs, so I can only use one at a time, which is a pain. I'd like something that will let me use two mics at once, and is sub 300 dollars a set. Thanks. __________________ Corey Sturmer Producer - Woffester Productions

May 2nd, 2004, 08:56 PM	#290
Dan Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 235	AKG PT40 & PR40 are right at $300 a set, work very, very well, and come in about 6 different freqs, in the 800 MHz range. Diversity receive too. I love mine. __________________ dB

May 3rd, 2004, 10:48 PM	#291
Andrew Shrigley Tourist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 2	live music/VX2100 How would I go about getting good sound recording a live band (in a bar) with a VX2100?

May 3rd, 2004, 11:20 PM	#292
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	What do you have to work with, do you have any other gear than just the camera? Good is subjective, it depends on what your standards are, it would also help to know what you'd use the footage for. Most importantly , what is your budget. Read a few pages of posts here in the audio forum, to get a feel for the site and then give us more to work with. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 4th, 2004, 10:11 AM	#293
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Vegas/Ulead VASST Tours update Hey Gang, We keep getting lots of emails about the VASST tours, wanted to post updates to maybe save our office manager from replying to so many: We've got the Ulead VASST tour with Mike Downey and Jeffrey P. Fisher, details at http://www.vasst.com/touragenda/uleadcertagenda.htm Gary Kleiner and I will be the instructors on this tour, tag-teaming various functions and segments through the day. With Gary on the tour, we'll be giving away a copy of Excalibur and Neon at each city, plus everyone gets some fun goodies in their attendee bags from Gary. We'll also have great products from Artbeats, Sony, VASST, and other fun things in the attendee bags. We'll have giveaways from Sony, ADS, Artbeats, VASST, and other manufacturers. There is a FREE Sony event the night before each full day training event in each city, where we'll be showcasing Vegas, ACID, Sound Forge, and Noise Reduction, you can register for this FREE event on the VASST website, http://www.vasst.com/registration I think I speak for Gary as well in saying we're looking forward to getting out there and meeting you all, spending time in your city, and getting to know some of you directly. Audio is a featured section in the day as well. See you on the tour!! See full tour details at http://www.vasst.com/touragenda/vegas5agenda.htm __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 6th, 2004, 04:02 PM	#294
Matt Norwood New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 5	How are MIPro wireless products? Hi everyone, I am looking into getting a MIPro MR-801 wireless system. I haven't seen any opinions on this set, and only one review of any MIPro system. Anyone used this set or other MIPro products?

May 7th, 2004, 03:43 AM	#295
Marco Mezzalana Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 85	Mic opinion for mx500 Mi search still continue...In italy there are no way to purchase what you want without driving for hundreds ok km. So I decide to order mi mic by internet but... I can't test it with my camera and I have to trust you...so please help me. I would a good mic for my mx500 camera, the sound of the onboard one sometimes it's no clear... The 2 most named in this forum are: Apex 191, but it require an xlr adaptor and an hotshoe adaptor Ezden ECZ-990 Frank gave me his impression about the first one, now I want to know about the ezden, and of course if someone test it with a mx500... thanks Marco

May 7th, 2004, 11:57 AM	#296
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Hey Douglas, the scoop on the web site sounds awesome! Am all signed up and am looking forward to meeting you in LA. Marcia

May 10th, 2004, 09:32 PM	#297
Paul Chun Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 132	Me64?? For general run & gun type video and just a basic replacement for the PD170 mic, is the ME64 a good replacement? I already have a ME66 but want something not so directional for general purpose use. Will the ME64 fit the bill? If not, what Sennheiser can I use that is a basic replacement for the PD170 mic? I want to be able to use my K6 module I already have.

May 11th, 2004, 07:16 AM	#298
Joseph Lawrence Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: fort wayne, IN Posts: 50	most useful scoring ACID loop CDs? Rather than hijack the thread "building mood with music for dramatic video" (which is relevant and highly recommended) I chose to ask my question separately. I cheaped-out and bought the ACID Music (Screenblaster) which by various reviews has most of the music creation features of the full ACID Pro. The collection of loops bundled with ACID Music is too heavily hip-hop and techno for my preferences. I would like recommendations from users. Which loop CD collections are the most useful for scoring documentary genre videos? If you could choose any five CDs to score your videos, what would you choose? I found a good deal on loop collections through efolletts.com (an academic discounter) and I'd like input from users so that I buy effectively. Joseph

May 11th, 2004, 07:21 AM	#299
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Which 5 only?....damn, that's hard. Any of the Orchestral series. Any/All of the Bill Laswell libes Numina Junkyard Rhythms American Piano Are my forced 5 picks. But that's a really tough one. Any of the Hark Production libraries are great too, but they're not Sony-distributed. I think it's http://www.harkproductions.com and tell Kevin I sent you. We'll be giving away a bunch of free loop libes on the VASST ACID and VASST Vegas tour, starting in Denver next week. http://www.vasst.com/training_tours.htm __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 11th, 2004, 07:43 AM	#300
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The 64 is really your only option if you want a less directional mic for general purpose use with your K6. The 62 is omnidirectional. The 65 is designed to be a handheld hypercardioid. Two other mics that might be useful in this situation are the AT3031 cardioid and the AT873r hypercardioid. Each is in the $170 ballpark for the complete mic. They are both phantom only, so if you were also planning on using the mic separately from your camera this might not work out. If your PD170 mic input is noisy and benefits from a very hot mic, these mics aren't as sensitive as the 64. However they generally work better in loud environments like live music or indoor sports. They would have the added benefit of being a complete mic, you could still use your K6/ME66 simultaneously. With any of these choices, you need a good mini-furry windscreen for outdoor use under run and gun conditions. Don't forget to factor that into your cost.