All Things Audio -- topics from 2002 thru 2004

Mike Rehmus · December 21st, 2003, 08:32 PM

They are very popular but you won't find the serious sound pros using them. They complain that the pre-amps are noisy and the Mackies don't stand up to really heavy use.

Of course these are people that are willing to pay $4,000 and up for a small portable mixer and as much or more for the recording device.

My take on Mackie construction is that as long as you (or I) use it or at least supervise its use it will do fine. Don't think they would stand up to rental or really heavy use by the hired help.

I have a couple of 8-channel Mackies that have been in use at the local college for about 8 years. They both work fine but aren't really used that much either.

Take a look at the Folio while you are at it.

Law Tyler · December 21st, 2003, 09:03 PM

Which transmitter do you prefer?

I am using a Micro32 as the receiver.

The AL1 is clipped to the collar, using the built-in mic, whereas the T32 is of course using the lavalier mic.

The T32 has a lot of kick, but at the expense of noise, whereas the AL1 has almost no background noise, and one can always pump up the gain on the receiver (which increases the noise also).

I am using this for a wedding, hence the bride a couple feet away has to be picked up. Hopefully the priest will let me put on another AL-1.

Dustin Waits · December 21st, 2003, 09:58 PM

I am using a trv950 to shoot and I was thinking of buyng a the sgm-x. I make mostly bmx videos and I need a good mic to pic up the sounds from the bikes/riders. I am on a very tight budget so this is probably the most money I will be able to spend on a mic. Is it worth the buy?

Thank you.

Harry Settle · December 21st, 2003, 10:02 PM

I use the SGX on my VX 2000, and like it very much.

Dan Brown · December 22nd, 2003, 01:35 PM

I just saw it at B&H, $280. This is a new 11" shotgun with just a slightly wider pattern than the 835b (which is 14.5" long). It's got a better S/N ratio too. The latest from Audio Technica, I'll be looking forward to hearing a review from more experienced users.

Harry Doyle · December 23rd, 2003, 01:58 PM

hi,
i have read a bit here that a shure sm58 is a decent all around dymamic mic. i happen to own one of these as i sometimes sing in a band.

i broke the bank when i bought my gl2. i mostly shoot skateboarding, so the on board mic is fine.

i think i'm going to get into trying to do some shorts with a few friends of mine, and from reading here, i see that on board audio is somewhat of a no no.

can i get away with using the sm58? will it give me noticeably better results than on board? i really can't afford the xlr add-on and a really good mic.

thanks!
harry

Mike Rehmus · December 23rd, 2003, 04:08 PM

The SM58 IS a really good microphone. Just not appropriate for what you want to do.

Unless you want the microphone in the picture, you will need something different.

Probably a self-powered cardiod or shotgun will do well for you.

Get a decent one. Too inexpensive and it will be less than you can deal with. Something like an Audio Technica 835B which is about $235 at discount stores here in the USA. A Radio Shack adapter cable will do to connect the XLR microphone output to the minijack input of the camera.

You can build a shockmount out of some plastic water pipe and rubber bands if you have to.

December 28th, 2003, 01:46 AM

I recently purchased a ME66 mic for use with the Canon GL2. I am using the 1.5V batter power module. I purchsed a Radio Shack 3-pin XLR to 1/4" mono cable and then use a 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor to match the GL2 input. I am obviously doing something wrong because the signal picked up by the GL2 is can be heard but is extremely weak. I am assuming that I have an impedence mismatch problem or am completely missunderstanding the use of this mic. Can somebody be kind enough to set me straight.

Jun Galinato · December 28th, 2003, 01:52 PM

Hi there, The wire from radio shack is wired specially for dynamic microphones only. Here's you can do to eliminate one connector, cut the 1/4" plug and replace it with a 1/8" mini plug and follow the wiring diagram seen here:
http://www.nullmodem.com/Audio.htm

Hope this will help you.

Matt Gettemeier · December 29th, 2003, 11:04 AM

For some of you more experienced guys this will seem like a stupid question, so please bear with me.

I'm wondering in real terms what happens when you stop using MIC level and start using LINE level to feed audio to your cam...

Other then a Beachtek I haven't used a mixer before and I'm contemplating getting a small 2 channel mixer/mic pre that a member of our boards makes...

I'm guessing the audio and dynamic range would go up and get clearer... and I know that the issues of control go up, as far as boosting a dynamic mic or controlling a "hot" mic such as an me66.

But is it a night and day difference or what? This will be going into a DVX and I've been pretty happy with my audio, but I can hear room for improvement... This seems like the next logical step.

Thoughts?

Rob Easler · December 29th, 2003, 12:40 PM

The electrical current generated by a microphone is very small. Referred to as mic level, this signal is typically measured in millivolts. Before it can be used for anything serious the signal needs to be amplified, usually to line level (typically 0.5 -2V). Being a stronger and more robust signal, line level is the standard signal strength used by audio processing equipment and common domestic equipment such as CD players, tape machines, VCRs, etc.

This amplification is achieved in one or more of the following ways:

-Some microphones have tiny built-in amplifiers which boost the
signal to a high mic level or line level.
-The mic can be fed through a small boosting amplifier, often
called a line amp.
-Sound mixers have small amplifiers in each channel. Attenuators
can accommodate mics of varying levels and adjust them all to
an even line level.
-The audio signal is fed to a power amplifier - a specialised amp
which boosts the signal enough to be fed to loudspeakers.

A line input typically will be cleaner that mic level input in a dv cam because a lot of dv cams don't have good pre amps for their mic inputs but the DVX has better audio than other similarly priced dv cams so the difference may not be that dramatic. It really depends on the quality of the mixer and it's boost of the mic signal. If it's a little mixer who knows what the quality is. A mic going in to the DVX's XLR's is a lot better than a beachtec xlr adapter you may have used in the past going in to a 1/8 inch jack into a different camcorder.

Martin Garrison · December 31st, 2003, 12:30 AM

Wondering if there is a distortion associated with using the wind protection/blimps. Also, would there be an audible difference in using a "Baby Ball Gag" that doesn't go all the way around a mic, as opposed to a fully enclosed "Extended Ball Gag".

Thanks for any input.

Jan Roovers · December 31st, 2003, 08:14 AM

It is told that this mic would be a cheaper copy of the Neumann.
The Neumann would stay a bitter warmer, but the pice-quality of thiis B-5 would be extremely good.
It is sold with two capsules cardioide and omnidirectional.

http://www.behringer.com/02_products...d=B-5&lang=eng

What do you think?

Has somebody heard this mic in practise?

Matt Gettemeier · December 31st, 2003, 11:25 AM

If you had asked me this question a month ago I'd have said "no difference"... At this point I think it depends on the mic.

With an me66 I had both a Rycote zepp and a Softie... The zepp was supposed to be for outright clarity indoors... Then you added a furry for outdoors... but I didn't have the furry so I switched to Softie... Well after several listening tests, I sold the zepp and used the Softie ALL the time. It worked great indoors or out and I couldn't hear any change in the highs (and obviously not the lows)...

I just got a super-sensitive large diaphragm mic and with anything THAT open and THAT sensitive I'll bet everything matters. You can hear the sound change by having an open door across the room. Passing your hand in a circle behind it makes the sound "oscillate" with the position of your hand...

If you had a mic sensitive enough I'm certain you could drive yourself insane.

So to repeat, it will depend on the mic, but for MOST mics a good windshield system won't affect performance too noticeably on DV.

Jim Forbes · December 31st, 2003, 01:09 PM

I have an XL1s with an MA200 adaptor and I'm debating which of the above kits to add. Can anyone tell me the relative difference between the two - and which direction you'd go.

Also, it's been suggested that I add a BEC receiver bracket and BEC mounting Box. Are these necessary or preferred?

Do I need any other connections?

Thank you.
Jim

December 21st, 2003, 08:32 PM	#196
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	They are very popular but you won't find the serious sound pros using them. They complain that the pre-amps are noisy and the Mackies don't stand up to really heavy use. Of course these are people that are willing to pay $4,000 and up for a small portable mixer and as much or more for the recording device. My take on Mackie construction is that as long as you (or I) use it or at least supervise its use it will do fine. Don't think they would stand up to rental or really heavy use by the hired help. I have a couple of 8-channel Mackies that have been in use at the local college for about 8 years. They both work fine but aren't really used that much either. Take a look at the Folio while you are at it. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 21st, 2003, 09:03 PM	#197
Law Tyler Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 204	Attn: Samson Micro AL1 + T32 owners Which transmitter do you prefer? I am using a Micro32 as the receiver. The AL1 is clipped to the collar, using the built-in mic, whereas the T32 is of course using the lavalier mic. The T32 has a lot of kick, but at the expense of noise, whereas the AL1 has almost no background noise, and one can always pump up the gain on the receiver (which increases the noise also). I am using this for a wedding, hence the bride a couple feet away has to be picked up. Hopefully the priest will let me put on another AL-1.

December 21st, 2003, 09:58 PM	#198
Dustin Waits Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ft. Myers Beach, Fl Posts: 243	Azden SGM-X I am using a trv950 to shoot and I was thinking of buyng a the sgm-x. I make mostly bmx videos and I need a good mic to pic up the sounds from the bikes/riders. I am on a very tight budget so this is probably the most money I will be able to spend on a mic. Is it worth the buy? Thank you.

December 21st, 2003, 10:02 PM	#199
Harry Settle Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 276	I use the SGX on my VX 2000, and like it very much. __________________ "DOH"!!!

December 22nd, 2003, 01:35 PM	#200
Dan Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 235	AT897 In Stock I just saw it at B&H, $280. This is a new 11" shotgun with just a slightly wider pattern than the 835b (which is 14.5" long). It's got a better S/N ratio too. The latest from Audio Technica, I'll be looking forward to hearing a review from more experienced users. __________________ dB

December 23rd, 2003, 01:58 PM	#201
Harry Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sydney, NS, Canada Posts: 40	sm58 with a gl2 hi, i have read a bit here that a shure sm58 is a decent all around dymamic mic. i happen to own one of these as i sometimes sing in a band. i broke the bank when i bought my gl2. i mostly shoot skateboarding, so the on board mic is fine. i think i'm going to get into trying to do some shorts with a few friends of mine, and from reading here, i see that on board audio is somewhat of a no no. can i get away with using the sm58? will it give me noticeably better results than on board? i really can't afford the xlr add-on and a really good mic. thanks! harry

December 23rd, 2003, 04:08 PM	#202
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	The SM58 IS a really good microphone. Just not appropriate for what you want to do. Unless you want the microphone in the picture, you will need something different. Probably a self-powered cardiod or shotgun will do well for you. Get a decent one. Too inexpensive and it will be less than you can deal with. Something like an Audio Technica 835B which is about $235 at discount stores here in the USA. A Radio Shack adapter cable will do to connect the XLR microphone output to the minijack input of the camera. You can build a shockmount out of some plastic water pipe and rubber bands if you have to. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 28th, 2003, 01:46 AM	#203
John Hopkins Posts: n/a	Problem using Sennheiser Me66 Mic I recently purchased a ME66 mic for use with the Canon GL2. I am using the 1.5V batter power module. I purchsed a Radio Shack 3-pin XLR to 1/4" mono cable and then use a 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor to match the GL2 input. I am obviously doing something wrong because the signal picked up by the GL2 is can be heard but is extremely weak. I am assuming that I have an impedence mismatch problem or am completely missunderstanding the use of this mic. Can somebody be kind enough to set me straight.

December 28th, 2003, 01:52 PM	#204
Jun Galinato Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 231	Hi there, The wire from radio shack is wired specially for dynamic microphones only. Here's you can do to eliminate one connector, cut the 1/4" plug and replace it with a 1/8" mini plug and follow the wiring diagram seen here: http://www.nullmodem.com/Audio.htm Hope this will help you. __________________ Sony Z7U, Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 24-105 F4L, Canon 70-200 F2.8L, Canon 580 EXII, Zoom H2.

December 29th, 2003, 11:04 AM	#205
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	What do you gain when going from MIC level to LINE level? For some of you more experienced guys this will seem like a stupid question, so please bear with me. I'm wondering in real terms what happens when you stop using MIC level and start using LINE level to feed audio to your cam... Other then a Beachtek I haven't used a mixer before and I'm contemplating getting a small 2 channel mixer/mic pre that a member of our boards makes... I'm guessing the audio and dynamic range would go up and get clearer... and I know that the issues of control go up, as far as boosting a dynamic mic or controlling a "hot" mic such as an me66. But is it a night and day difference or what? This will be going into a DVX and I've been pretty happy with my audio, but I can hear room for improvement... This seems like the next logical step. Thoughts?

December 29th, 2003, 12:40 PM	#206
Rob Easler Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 219	The electrical current generated by a microphone is very small. Referred to as mic level, this signal is typically measured in millivolts. Before it can be used for anything serious the signal needs to be amplified, usually to line level (typically 0.5 -2V). Being a stronger and more robust signal, line level is the standard signal strength used by audio processing equipment and common domestic equipment such as CD players, tape machines, VCRs, etc. This amplification is achieved in one or more of the following ways: -Some microphones have tiny built-in amplifiers which boost the signal to a high mic level or line level. -The mic can be fed through a small boosting amplifier, often called a line amp. -Sound mixers have small amplifiers in each channel. Attenuators can accommodate mics of varying levels and adjust them all to an even line level. -The audio signal is fed to a power amplifier - a specialised amp which boosts the signal enough to be fed to loudspeakers. A line input typically will be cleaner that mic level input in a dv cam because a lot of dv cams don't have good pre amps for their mic inputs but the DVX has better audio than other similarly priced dv cams so the difference may not be that dramatic. It really depends on the quality of the mixer and it's boost of the mic signal. If it's a little mixer who knows what the quality is. A mic going in to the DVX's XLR's is a lot better than a beachtec xlr adapter you may have used in the past going in to a 1/8 inch jack into a different camcorder.

December 31st, 2003, 12:30 AM	#207
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	Sonic difference in blimps? Wondering if there is a distortion associated with using the wind protection/blimps. Also, would there be an audible difference in using a "Baby Ball Gag" that doesn't go all the way around a mic, as opposed to a fully enclosed "Extended Ball Gag". Thanks for any input.

December 31st, 2003, 08:14 AM	#208
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	Behringer Condensermic B-5 It is told that this mic would be a cheaper copy of the Neumann. The Neumann would stay a bitter warmer, but the pice-quality of thiis B-5 would be extremely good. It is sold with two capsules cardioide and omnidirectional. http://www.behringer.com/02_products...d=B-5&lang=eng What do you think? Has somebody heard this mic in practise? __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

December 31st, 2003, 11:25 AM	#209
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	If you had asked me this question a month ago I'd have said "no difference"... At this point I think it depends on the mic. With an me66 I had both a Rycote zepp and a Softie... The zepp was supposed to be for outright clarity indoors... Then you added a furry for outdoors... but I didn't have the furry so I switched to Softie... Well after several listening tests, I sold the zepp and used the Softie ALL the time. It worked great indoors or out and I couldn't hear any change in the highs (and obviously not the lows)... I just got a super-sensitive large diaphragm mic and with anything THAT open and THAT sensitive I'll bet everything matters. You can hear the sound change by having an open door across the room. Passing your hand in a circle behind it makes the sound "oscillate" with the position of your hand... If you had a mic sensitive enough I'm certain you could drive yourself insane. So to repeat, it will depend on the mic, but for MOST mics a good windshield system won't affect performance too noticeably on DV.

December 31st, 2003, 01:09 PM	#210
Jim Forbes Tourist Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4	Sennheiser 500 v. 100 I have an XL1s with an MA200 adaptor and I'm debating which of the above kits to add. Can anyone tell me the relative difference between the two - and which direction you'd go. Also, it's been suggested that I add a BEC receiver bracket and BEC mounting Box. Are these necessary or preferred? Do I need any other connections? Thank you. Jim